Ivan Moldavi

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289276768' post='2507256'] Let me guess, you landed on "Moot"? [/quote] No, you and a few other people were already there.

[quote name='o ya baby' timestamp='1289276555' post='2507247'] i'm still not seeing where it directly says "pay up or we'll kill you" i mean, you're pretty good at making things up and assuming, but i don't think it's appropriate for you to just go ahead and jump to conclusions without anyone actually saying anything for certain! it's just not fair to the fair people of the kingdom! [/quote] At least we have a mat for it. [img]http://gesvol.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/jump-to-conclusions.jpg[/img]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289276370' post='2507240'] Now now, my art people are afforded creative license me thinks. Anyway, I find it interesting that MK's government isn't actually doing anything to deny that they really only would have wanted [url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?searchstring=Declaring_Nation,Receiving_Nation&search=vapo+patria+heggomonomy"]the perfectly fair sum that I've already sent them[/url] had they only realized themselves that they were asking to be compensated for losses incurred by a ghost 5 fold. [/quote] Then I guess this matter is closed, right? You have sent MK all the "reparations" that they surely were actually expecting anyway and the issue is now moot. Great job all around. I guess RV can request this be closed since MK has received their payment in full.

[quote name='o ya baby' timestamp='1289276234' post='2507232'] good to know you're as annoying as always. you're in good company now lolol well, good thing you're not relevant anymore or this statement would actually matter! [/quote] Yes, it is a very good thing for some people.

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1289275784' post='2507216'] I think that's been suggested about ten times in this thread so far, and "liked" another fifty. [/quote] Yeah, but most people that say it are only pretending because they think it is cool. I really wouldn't pay. Ever.

[quote name='karthikking' timestamp='1289275778' post='2507215'] [img]http://i460.photobucket.com/albums/qq330/karthik_king/ErrorMessage.png[/img] [/quote] I vote Glow.

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1289275692' post='2507209'] Because then NSO will be breaking their agreement to pay their extortioners and that would just be unacceptable. [/quote] Well, technically speaking, RV can be overruled by the Emperor.

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1289275616' post='2507207'] This is a good solution. [/quote] It is what I have been advocating all day.

How about NSO just doesn't pay and we see what happens?

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1289242820' post='2506340'] NSO, I'm curious. The standing line is the guy was a masked ghost, and was supposed to have been removed as a member months ago. What did he do months ago to be removed as a member? Realistically, the guy is still masked and still flying your AA, and as far as I can tell there's been no previous drama regarding the nation that would make you not want to recognize him, so why was he supposed to be removed? If he had resigned, he would have changed AA. If he had been kicked out, you would have demasked him or at least been attacking him as a ghost. I find it hard to swallow that a guy was sitting on your AA, with your mask, who has not been a member for months. So far the closest thing to an explanation Ive seen about this is "He's been inactive for months". Unless NSO regularly culls its members based on activity levels (which I'm pretty sure is not the case), I don't understand why this guy was not a member. If we could get some clarification on that I'd appreciate it. In fact, I'm sure the whole situation would have been received a lot better if you had said "Oh we didn't realize he was scamming you, we're kicking him out of the alliance and letting you get your 3mil back out of him. Good luck finding a new trade!". Instead what our members got was a lot of evading the question and at the end a copout excuse. In short [b]if he actually was a member but you were ditching him, why didn't you say so? If he actually was not a member, what caused this to be the case?[/b] [/quote] First, I don't know the answers to your questions but why is that even relevant? If he was a full regular member of the alliance that had botched up a trade circle or stolen $3mil he would have been treated the same way, kicked and/or had his $3mil bill paid for him with apologies. The simple fact is that it wasn't that MK asked to be compensated for the actual loss, now they are demanding compensation for supposed time and inconvenience as well, which is just ridiculous considering that it has already been illustrated that the Minister of Trades (should have kept that LUEnited Nations guy, he probably could have done a better job) could have easily found a replacement from within the alliance itself. From what I have seen there was no evading whatsoever. They approached a non-govt member and were told so and then they approached govt members and were told that he isn't a member. What is the complexity in that?

[quote name='Shaazzam' timestamp='1289242112' post='2506327'] Correct me if I'm wrong. but doesn't this nation have the missing resources? http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=162668 I assume that there must have been some effort to try and bring this cat in as a temp trade, no? Because with them being a member of the AA and all, as a Trade Director I'd be busting ass trying to get s/he to help out the rest of the team. [/quote] Of course it couldn't be as easy as making a quick search for the resources. It had to be a NSO government conspiracy that was bent on crippling MK economically by disrupting this one trade circle and stealing $3mil. Those damn evil NSO masterminds.

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289241141' post='2506313'] [color="#0000FF"]You still upset over something that happened well over a year ago under a past emperor? I'll agree that the demand was unreasonable, but the NSO hasn't attempted anything like that in a long, long time. In fact, I'd say we're one of the few alliances out there these days with anything remotely resembling honor. You may not like us, or agree with anything we do, but what you see with us is exactly what you get. We don't try to hide our actions behind some faux moralistic justification like your buddies in MK are attempting right now.[/color] [/quote] I think he is making it up anyway. What would Pierconium do with 2000 tech?

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289235900' post='2506201'] Its called moderation, Ivan. Just because there if food on the counter doesn't mean you have to eat every morsel. Nevertheless, I recant. Im glad you found the time to embrace the horrible things said about you and respond to them but the issue here is the rust on what was a fine trade deal. Im gonna use a metaphor here. Say I wanted to buy a car and went to a used car lot. I go there and I buy a car from an employee donned in all the finest dealership apparel replete with name tag. I pay the cost of the car, in full, drive it off the lot to my house only to wake up the next morning and find that the paint job was cheap and there is rust all over my fine automobile. So I return it to the lot and the lot attendant for the day says that the employee who sold me my car was not an employee and offers no suitable recompense for my troubles. I then go to the dealership manager who continues the same line as the lot employee. Then I decide to call headquarters who then admits that the man was an employee but that he wasn't supposed to be, someone forgot to fire him. Is it wrong for me to be frustrated and want full compensation + the cost of time and trouble for the hurdles I had to jump just to get compensation for the crap product that was sold to me under the name of that dealership? [/quote] Well, in that situation it would depend on the state where you live and your own culpability. In some states if you drive it off the lot it is yours, regardless of the condition once you get home. Caveat emptor (Buyer beware for the ignorant masses) You wouldn't get anything. Period.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289235645' post='2506196'] Define "standard convention" please. [/quote] You mean define it in the context of this discussion? Sure. Standard convention would be, as stated previously, that MK told NSO that one of its members had taken $3mil and not followed through. MK then would state that it intends to get its $3mil back by attacking said nation. OR NSO could have agreed to attack the nation for MK and paid the $3mil, which is did offer to do. Stating that every member of the circle needed to be paid $3mil plus 50 tech by NSO for the "inconvenience" of one random nation skipping out on a trade is not in any way, shape or form standard convention. Of course, it may become so now, which is why several people have stated they will not be looking to trade with MK in the future.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289235144' post='2506187'] I'm not saying they don't, that's clearly not what happened here though. He sacrificed all his trades and changed colors, he had to go a lot further than the other members of the circle. It doesn't make sense for him to just change his mind like that after coming so far. Clearly he was instructed. NSO government saw a chance to do economic damage to MK and took it, even though they knew they were throwing their member under the bus in the process, poor show NSO. [/quote] You know you sound like one of those tinfoil hat people, right? So a nation changes colors and gives up its trades and "clearly he was instructed"? Really? $3mil is economic damage to MK? Really? You guys don't even try anymore. I mean, I know you don't have to because you have all the guns but God, it seems like you would want to have some finesse in your autocracy.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289235104' post='2506186'] It's just when you read 3 years of people doing this exact same thing and having the general community here set the precedent by stating it should be held in private channels(the statement private channels ftw ring bells). What happens in private channels stays in private channels. But since when has the NSO cared about precedent. [/quote] Really? Backroom discussions that go wrong or are in gross violation of "precedent" and standard convention [i]always[/i] remain private? Really? Come on. I know I am out of touch but damn.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289234851' post='2506182'] So this is now about Ivan Moldavi. [/quote] Isn't it always? You are the one responding and making direct comments towards me and my past actions. I did no such thing except in response to you and others. If you don't want to feed my ego, don't leave the food on the counter. I commented expressly on my opinion of the issues and Cager's crying about the backroom dealings being made public.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289234716' post='2506178'] Good, glad we agree then, because the idea that a lone nation, even a semi-inactive one, would reneg on a deal like that (especially one so near completion) without any outside stimuli, for 3m, is quite frankly ridiculous. [/quote] Yes, because trade circles never fail in the Cyberverse. *rollseyes*

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234549' post='2506172'] You're trying to play the man of honour. It's not working. You used to be cool circa '06. [/quote] And you never were. So what? I am trying to play no such man. I am simply pointing out the duplicity of your alliance. You go into a backroom discussion and make ridiculous demands that no one else has ever done in similar circumstances because of your power and then cry when you get called out on it. Either do it and be the villain, which is what most people want anyway, or don't do it, but don't cry about it.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289234494' post='2506170'] lol. Revisionists are hilarious. [/quote] Yes, you are. I never claimed to be magnanimous in my dealings, but when you entered a room with me you got an upfront response, not some back and forth banter that includes mind-reading expectations and empty threats.

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1289234261' post='2506161'] Given what I was privvy too via logs while I was in ROK and given what I was told when I was in ROK by senior gov and didnt see, and given what I was witness to in IRC channels. I am vastly more inclined to believe Tamerlane's version of the the discussion. While I have no anamosity for the Sith, its highly likely his frustration is indeed derived from the ridiculous nonsense your lords engage in, in a diplomatic setting. Edit: good luck with it though, Im off to the otherworld for a bit. [/quote] Lintwad should just post his logs then. I haven't read them.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234318' post='2506166'] I look at that sentence and the bold words and then I look at your alliance affiliation. The moral high ground and the NSO don't belong together. [/quote] Morals and honor/integrity aren't the same thing. Plus, I laughed because it was you saying it.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289234174' post='2506155'] Not so far fetched, I imagine if the member mentioned it offhand in NSO's private IRC channel, he could have been instructed what to do by NSO gov or other NSO members when they found out about it after the deal was complete. I can't really think of any other likely scenario, unless he really is stupid enough to throw away his nation, and all his trades for that matter, for 3m. [/quote] Right. So instead of it being just some random player that is like the vast majority of players that checks in periodically and has no real clue about the ins and outs of the minority politics here on the forum it must be that some new member of NSO was posting in the private channel that he was getting into a trade circle with MK people and the NSO government went out of their way to instruct him on how to swindle them out of $3mil. Yes, you are again exactly right. That makes perfect sense.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289234164' post='2506154'] I could have sworn the standard procedure for things like this was BACKROOM channels. Or my memory's a bit fuzzy and the Planet Bob community didn't repeatedly deal with publicity threads like this by stating you should go through private channels. My my the times have changed. So for future reference folks, keep in mind if you discuss something with RV in backroom channels, there's a big chance it'll end up plastered here if he doesn't like what you have to say. [/quote] Once upon a time those backroom channels included conducting affairs with honor and integrity as well. So yes, times do change.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1289233670' post='2506141'] Why should we even believe an alliance with such a long history of being duplicitous? It wouldn't surprise me if he was ordered to break the trades after NSO gov found out he was trading with MK. [/quote] Yes, this is exactly what happened. You have it here first, folks! The NSO is so obsessed with MK et al that they monitor every potential trade in the hopes of finding someone with links to MK so that they can take money from them and then not follow through. Brilliant.