Ivan Moldavi

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1282626482' post='2428845'] I'm sure NSO will handle this with the grace of a dignified and classy alliance. [/quote] With such a fine example of grace and class to show them the way in your amazing personage I am certain they will deliver exactly the sort of fiction that you will enjoy.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1282555285' post='2427546'] As if Moldavi would use people that incompetent. Or be active enough, for that matter. [/quote] Umm...what? Also, the FOK guys are always good for playing along with a good gag. Always liked them.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282447139' post='2426254'] The best part of this is that I can post three or four lines and generate more than a page of responses that I won't read. One might almost think I was doing it....on purpose. Dance, monkeys! Dance! [/quote] I certainly hope that isn't the case. You don't seem to be very good at it apparently. Of course, that is just my assessment, but who am I to judge?

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1282422335' post='2425929'] Of course they were.Why else would RoK have gone to war over $6 million in aid with no negotiations whatsoever? [/quote] Plus I said it, so it must be so, regardless of anything else.

Being awarded the coveted Minister of Trade position in LUEnited Nations and then told that I wouldn't actually be allowed to direct and manage their trades. I was heartbroken for weeks. I still cry myself to sleep sometimes over it.

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1282274802' post='2423911'] Personally one of my favorites was when NSO came to NpO's defense in BiPolar. Everyone was sitting in the coalition leadership channel and it was a video DoW with one of their members, I think BaconGod, giving this long speech. It was amusing to say the least and earned many O/'s. However, Ivan came into the channel a few hours later and a few of us heckled him saying it would have been cooler if he'd made the video DoW himself. He then proceeded to give a biting and witty retort about how his wife already thought he was insane for staying up until 3 am playing this damned game and that if he proceeded to dress up in a Darth Vader costume and give a video DoW he'd get divorced. I've searched through my IRC logs more than once trying to find that exact snippet, it was comedy gold [/quote] My wife is not a fan of CN. Also, Caleb279, I don't remember the NPO apologizing in the Great Patriotic War.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281904883' post='2416938'] RV what you're saying is a complete lie, and you all know the things I done for NSO. The only thing NSO ever tried to give in return was to whine about how we were never on their side or some crap like that. Since I only brought up the cancellation thing to try and greater inform D34th. I don't want to go over the same trite arguments again. It will only turn into a NO U argument over and over again. [/quote] I still can't figure out what you are on about. What did GATO do for NSO? I just want to know. Just saying that RV "knows" and is lying isn't the same as actually answering the question.

I must have missed it, could you point out all these times GATO assisted NSO? Just curious, I was absent for a while.

[quote name='Tornado' timestamp='1281822945' post='2416030'] A legitimate CB to attack the person who spied upon him yes. He became a rogue the minuite he attacked the other member of TENE. [/quote] Hush you, I am trying to spin this thing in the best possible light for the NSO. I don't need people pointing out the obvious.

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1281820205' post='2416002'] Thanks for the clarification. And for the qualification. [/quote] No problem. I have asked several times to be shown such evidence if it exists, in which case nearly all of my ramblings will be shot to Hell and I will eat the proverbial crow that will undoubtedly be awaiting me from the peanut gallery. Unfortunately it has not been produced. I was hoping that it would be so that I could find another angle to argue from since this one is getting boring.

[quote name='Tautology' timestamp='1281820012' post='2415999'] Interesting use of the passive voice there. I'm sure you wouldn't have posted this without finding out who it was that determined it. Assuming there isn't a pressing need for their identity to be hidden, please tell us who it was. [/quote] No, not nearly as nefarious as all that. I simply note that the only provable initial event was the TENE spying attack upon Sedrick, which is a legitimate CB. I know all about the speculation that Sedrick did this or that beforehand but no proof exists, or has been presented, to support those claims.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281818166' post='2415966'] When NSO sent the aid for Sedrick it was an agressive move from NSO towards TENE and consequently ROK, since the "defensive" wars of Sedrick started before he joins NSO. And as you said either possibilities the end result is the same, ROK told to not aid Sedrick and NSO decided to aggressively assist him, now the best thing is to face the consequences of NSO mistake and talk with RoK to end the war instead of complain if the war is aggressive or defensive since Rok has the right to start both and the complains will change nothing. [/quote] So that I am clear on your position, are you saying that it was not okay for Sedrick to defend himself against TENE and that it was okay for RoK to declare on him after he was a member of NSO without providing any form of reasonable explanation, even after it was asked for specifically? Just checking. Based on everything that has been presented as fact (not presumption or speculation) TENE acted first and Sedrick acted in self defense. NSO asked RoK for evidence and RoK could not provide it. So RoK was attacking a member of the NSO without justification or cause outside of the possibility of activating an optional aggression clause of their treaty, which is not what they peddled to the world at large as the reason. So simply because RoK said so the NSO was supposed to abandon a member that was by all evidence the subject of an aggressive attack, very likely only because he left the alliance in question on bad terms? That is an interesting way of conducting diplomacy.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1281817916' post='2415961'] Is it the official position of NSO government that TENE was indeed the aggressor? I know you are retired but I would figure they would keep you in the loop. I only ask because I hear a different story from some in your .gov [/quote] I have no idea what the official position is. I have never concerned myself with such trivialities. I speak my opinion and just roll with the punches that come afterwards. That was true when I [i]was[/i] the official policy of the Order. Everything I state here is to support what I believe the overall position of the Order should be. If the government of the NSO decides to surrender and admit full responsibility and wrongdoing tomorrow then I will simply stop trying to sell my current range of goods. I am just here for the show.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281756737' post='2415310'] Please, link me to my post hailing this NSO policy. Also even if it was true I'm not saying that I disagree or dislike NSO policy, just that when someone try to chance an standard or a paradigm they need to face teh consequences of they choices. From Ragnablok treaty in CN wiki: Can you understand it now? Tell me you can, please. [/quote] Actually, since it has been determined based on the facts available that TENE was the initial aggressor it seems that this would be the part of the treaty that would be relevant, not the defensive aspect: IV. Optional Aggression All signatories will have the option if they so desire to assist any other signatory with an offensive military action in any manner they see fit. No signatory will be required to assist any other signatory with an offensive military action, though it is encouraged to help in any way possible. Either way, the end result is the same. RoK decided to aggressively assist TENE in their war.

Excellent, as always.

This made me laugh. Reminds me of a conversation I had with Banned Member once.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281725893' post='2414627'] I didn't ignore your post, I just don't state when I have to step away. And no, your summary is not accurate. There was an issue between TENE and Sedrick and they eventually requested that we fill his war slots. We agreed and contacted nations to do so. All of this occurred before he joined the New Sith Order. Sedrick receives a recruitment message from the NSO, joins their channel and lets them know he is about to be attacked and needs help. They check his war screens, acknowledge that TENE is a protectorate of Ragnarok, and then decide to accept him, advising him that he has their protection. The Sith did not contact TENE or Ragnarok before doing so, and had they done so they would have learned that Sedrick is guilty of roguery, aid theft, and impersonation. Before launching attacks against Sedrick's nation, we saw that he had the NSO AA and immediately contacted the Sith. We advised them that this nation was a rogue and that we had plans to attack him. The tone from the Sith was essentially that he wasn't a rogue unless they decided that he was one. We were a little shocked, to be honest. The Sith had always maintained that they do not involve themselves with the affairs of nations before they join their AA and were perplexed as to why they suddenly decided to involve themselves in something that did not pertain to them. We offered to send them the evidence that we had as a courtesy and not because we were required to do so, and the RoK Ruling Council contacted TENE for all the evidence that they had. No resolution was discussed and nowhere in those conversations did we state that attacks would be called off ... we went forward with our attacks on Sedrick as planned. Again, the Sith decided to involve themselves with an issue that was not their concern with an alliance who as you put it "they have marginal relations at best". While it is not the reason that they are under attack, it is what started this entire issue. [/quote] Great. So how does that counter what I stated? The NSO asked for evidence since your claims are not supported ingame and instead of providing it you launched attacks. What am I missing? Also, the earlier comment was for TypoNinja, not Hoo.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281725893' post='2414627'] I didn't ignore your post, I just don't state when I have to step away. And no, your summary is not accurate. There was an issue between TENE and Sedrick and they eventually requested that we fill his war slots. We agreed and contacted nations to do so. All of this occurred before he joined the New Sith Order. Sedrick receives a recruitment message from the NSO, joins their channel and lets them know he is about to be attacked and needs help. They check his war screens, acknowledge that TENE is a protectorate of Ragnarok, and then decide to accept him, advising him that he has their protection. The Sith did not contact TENE or Ragnarok before doing so, and had they done so they would have learned that Sedrick is guilty of roguery, aid theft, and impersonation. Before launching attacks against Sedrick's nation, we saw that he had the NSO AA and immediately contacted the Sith. We advised them that this nation was a rogue and that we had plans to attack him. The tone from the Sith was essentially that he wasn't a rogue unless they decided that he was one. We were a little shocked, to be honest. The Sith had always maintained that they do not involve themselves with the affairs of nations before they join their AA and were perplexed as to why they suddenly decided to involve themselves in something that did not pertain to them. We offered to send them the evidence that we had as a courtesy and not because we were required to do so, and the RoK Ruling Council contacted TENE for all the evidence that they had. No resolution was discussed and nowhere in those conversations did we state that attacks would be called off ... we went forward with our attacks on Sedrick as planned. Again, the Sith decided to involve themselves with an issue that was not their concern with an alliance who as you put it "they have marginal relations at best". While it is not the reason that they are under attack, it is what started this entire issue. [/quote] Great. So how does that counter what I stated? The NSO asked for evidence since your claims are not supported ingame and instead of providing it you launched attacks. What am I missing?

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281725893' post='2414627'] I didn't ignore your post, I just don't state when I have to step away. And no, your summary is not accurate. There was an issue between TENE and Sedrick and they eventually requested that we fill his war slots. We agreed and contacted nations to do so. All of this occurred before he joined the New Sith Order. Sedrick receives a recruitment message from the NSO, joins their channel and lets them know he is about to be attacked and needs help. They check his war screens, acknowledge that TENE is a protectorate of Ragnarok, and then decide to accept him, advising him that he has their protection. The Sith did not contact TENE or Ragnarok before doing so, and had they done so they would have learned that Sedrick is guilty of roguery, aid theft, and impersonation. Before launching attacks against Sedrick's nation, we saw that he had the NSO AA and immediately contacted the Sith. We advised them that this nation was a rogue and that we had plans to attack him. The tone from the Sith was essentially that he wasn't a rogue unless they decided that he was one. We were a little shocked, to be honest. The Sith had always maintained that they do not involve themselves with the affairs of nations before they join their AA and were perplexed as to why they suddenly decided to involve themselves in something that did not pertain to them. We offered to send them the evidence that we had as a courtesy and not because we were required to do so, and the RoK Ruling Council contacted TENE for all the evidence that they had. No resolution was discussed and nowhere in those conversations did we state that attacks would be called off ... we went forward with our attacks on Sedrick as planned. Again, the Sith decided to involve themselves with an issue that was not their concern with an alliance who as you put it "they have marginal relations at best". While it is not the reason that they are under attack, it is what started this entire issue. [/quote] Great. So how does that counter what I stated? The NSO asked for evidence since your claims are not supported ingame and instead of providing it you launched attacks. What am I missing? Also, the earlier comment was for TypoNinja, not Hoo.

I decided to check from my phone because people seem to post digs right after I log out. Amazing. Well, considering that those screens are from the defensive wars Sedrick launched after the spying attack from TENE the rest of your diatribe falls a little flat. It would benefit you to read the ongoing discussion before commenting so that you aren't out of step with the current topics of argument.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1281723015' post='2414566'] Ah, excellent. I was not aware that such was communicated beforehand. [b]When the request for evidence to support this claim came, since it is in direct contradiction to the evidence available ingame and Sedrick's story, did RoK provide it to the NSO government officials that were making the request?[/b] [/quote] Should I take that as a "no" then? So, basically, what this all comes down to is RoK telling NSO, an alliance that they have marginal relations with at best, that a new member is considered a rogue. The NSO approaches the member, gets a different story and when they ask RoK to substantiate their claim they are told to pay reps and that if they support their member it will mean war? Am I getting this straight? That's how things are done here these days? Interesting times. Oh well, I have to run. Again, carry on.

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1281723025' post='2414567'] Always enjoyable to see Ivan come out and debate. I hope everyone involved enjoys the fight. [/quote] I'll always be here when one of the Orders is attacked, fighting the Good Fight.

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1281722878' post='2414562'] I'm not going to interject into your debate with tamerlane due to the simple fact that I am already pretty much done debating in the 100 threads devoted to this war. However, I have to at least advise you that we did approach the NSO and did let them know that this nation was considered a rogue in advance. On top of that, Sedrick himself alerted the NSO that he was going to be attacked prior to being accepted. [/quote] Ah, excellent. I was not aware that such was communicated beforehand. When the request for evidence to support this claim came, since it is in direct contradiction to the evidence available ingame and Sedrick's story, did RoK provide it to the NSO government officials that were making the request?

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1281719638' post='2414484'] Last post as well as its time for meetings. We then find ourselves tracing back to what should actually be considered an aggressive action worthy of risking an escalated conflict. There is very little reason in having a full scale conflict over a nation who declared on 3 members of RoK's protectorate over a spy attack that, as previously mentioned, stood to cause (and likely caused) no monetary damage. You can say that spy attacks are aggressive and leave it at that, fine. In saying that, you immediately lose any credibility on account of your inflexibility. This is a war over nothing, caused by your alliance's own **unique** stubbornness. [/quote] This is hilarious. You keep spouting about the stubbornness of the NSO while defending the position of an alliance that went to war over $6mil in aid after NSO requested evidence from the aggressors (RoK) to substantiate their claims. To date RoK has not provided one shread of evidence that indicates Sedrick was a rogue nation instead of what the facts support, which is that it is an aggrevied nation that was acting in self defense. Perhaps his response to the spying was too much. Perhaps he shouldn't have launched the attacks even though he had an established and proven CB. Perhaps he shouldn't have applied to NSO while doing so. But, even with those "perhaps" it is very clear that RoK should not (not perhaps should not) have launched aggressive attacks against a member of another alliance without consulting them first. RoK should not have demanded NSO pay reps without providing evidence to back up their claims and RoK should not have gone to war with the NSO for their doing what any other alliance that actually cares about its membership would have done, which is support a member in the face of false accusations. You and others can spout on and on about how Sedrick should have handled it or how Heft should have handled it but we are all addressing how RoK did handle it and it was a dismal attempt at diplomacy that did nothing but cause NSO and their own protectorate harm. If [i]evidence[/i] (not conjecture or speculation) exists that proves Sedrick was a rogue then show it and I will shut up because then I will have no leg to stand on whatsoever. The facts are all that matter in this instance. You ask if Hoo is meant to be telepathic, well how about Heft? Was he supposed to [i]know[/i] that Sedrick was considered a rogue by RoK without them informing NSO before attacking? Were NSO leaders supposed to psychicly know that RoK's claims are legitimate without evidence? Give me a break.

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1281718587' post='2414469'] My reason, it was somewhere between me assuming most alliances checked the backround of their applicants and $6mil being sent to a nation after Hoo said "Don't do that or we'll go to a full scale conflict". The instructions were clear. [/quote] Actually from what I can tell, the NSO was aware of Sedrick's wars with TENE and Sedrick informed them that it was a defensive action, which the evidence supports, and that he had offered peace, which has also been collaborated. Therefore, since it was a defensive action and it seemed to have a readily available solution he was admitted. After that RoK decided to declare on him without so much as a word. That is on RoK. The NSO can not be held responsible for RoK's carelessness in regards to diplomacy. So now your "reason" is that RoK can declare upon any alliance's members and then bully them into not sending them aid with the threat of war in which the whole of the Cyberverse will come out with laurels and praise about how the horrible X alliance screwed up, even though no such events took place and no evidence to support the RoK claims exist? EDIT: I am off to lunch, carry on.