Ivan Moldavi

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300380667' post='2667816'] Personally, I've always though of people getting bored and giving up strategic aims to be pretty lame, so it is a war I want to fight until our objectives are achieved. There are no really "better things" to move onto, really. I mean, do you think anyone wants to go back to long months of peace when everyone was complaining about how everything is stagnant not too long ago? 2 months(not even at this point) and then peace for a long time?' It's really not important enough to give up the current war over, or we wouldn't be fighting it. Not that many people got out of the Polar theater without taking significant damage and Duckroll is being put on a more level footing after being thrashed. 2 months is nothing for a main front. [/quote] I am just curious, because I have not seen them posted anywhere else, what exactly are your objectives in this war?

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300380604' post='2667812'] My side? *checks alliance affiliation* I don't have a side. [/quote] You post from a position that is opposite my own, therefore you are my enemy.

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300380300' post='2667802'] Again, boo hoo. I'm crying on the inside. I really am. [/quote] No one from the NPO government has stated that these terms are unfair so what is your point? Only your side has been crying about nations being in peace mode. Only your side cried about it when the NPO delivered it to FAN so long ago. FAN didn't cry about it then, just as NPO is not now. Shedding light on an apparent inconsistency in policy and fraudulent ethos isn't the same as crying. The OP is more or less an emo statement about how Pacifica broke MK's heart (and maybe read her diary or something) and how even though junior high and high school are over and they are both sophomores in college on opposite coasts, MK still pines after NPO and still carries around a secret rage over being dumped. Does MK cut itself too?

[quote name='Qazzian' timestamp='1300379190' post='2667785'] Reasking my question since it was side stepped: What guarantee is there that DoomHouse et al would stand down after the 1 month time period? [/quote] It isn't a matter of whether or not such a guarantee would exist because of the simple fact that it wouldn't be needed. As pointed out earlier, the statistical differential between the top tier in NPO and those attacking it is sufficient enough to completely obliterate the 9 NPO nations above 100k NS easily within a one month contained war. If the NPO agreed to this term it would never have to worry about those top tier nations agreeing to stop their attack because the top tier of Pacifica would be fighting alongside the current combatants at the lower tiers.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1300377944' post='2667769'] I was always a key player Ivan. I know you're jealous. [/quote] [s]Honestly, I can at least state that I have heard of your name.[/s] But nothing you have ever done rings any bells. Oh well. EDIT: Sorry about that. Turns out I was confusing you with Crymson. Carry on.

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1300377827' post='2667767'] They're clamoring about it because the last time this term was issued, the war drew out for two years. All FAN had to do to get peace was to come out of peace mode. They never did, so they never got peace. Now FAN is leading the charge on NPO and issues the same term. It's all very Charles Dickens. [/quote] Then they (and their collective bedfellows) shouldn't be !@#$%*ing and moaning when the NPO doesn't come groveling, kissing their asses and thanking them for this kind "mercy", right? If you have experienced this sort of term before (regardless of the implied illegitimacy stemming from historical debate and the recent NPO apology for the act itself) then you should be willing to accept the consequences of that term being rejected instead of acting all butthurt like MK and the others seem to be doing. No one from the NPO government has posted here that they are appalled by these terms, even though they have every right to. Some have decided to point out the inconsistency that has been displayed for nearly two years now by those that initially waged war on Pacifica in the name of "righting past wrongs" and putting an end to injustice and overly harsh peace terms. MK the oppressed to MK the oppressor. A tale of two alliances indeed.

[quote name='WalkerNinja' timestamp='1300374196' post='2667721'] Why are you wasting your time with this? You're the only man alive that remembers the call to Order. There is real work to be done among your fractured progeny, and harassing posters on the OWF is not going to get it done. [/quote] Thank you for the sentiment. I appreciate it. And you are correct to a great degree. Unfortunately I am old and no longer have the influence I once held. Many doors are shut to me along that avenue these days and even if they were open other influences on my time would prevent anything more than guidance and counsel, which is only sought out by two of the three Orders these days to any degree at all. On topic, why are so many people clamoring on about this being a long drawn out war? It has been less than two months. Who knows, maybe after they annoy the piss out of you by staying in peace mode for four months and you lose interest or your attention fades and your rhetoric continues to be tired and recycled they will come out and give you the fight you want on their terms? It is possible. Honestly though, I don't have time for much more than the random harassment. Starting tomorrow I will not even be online at all for nearly ten days, so I have to get it in now before I leave.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300342231' post='2667286'] Having been informed of something I was entirely unaware of, it's clear that my posts were far beyond "out of line." I shall be getting back to this shortly. [/quote] Yeah, it is amazing what you miss when you go inactive. I'm out.

Honestly, I have to admit ignorance of the issue to which people are chastising HoT for as well. I am not as active as I used to be so I miss things.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300341388' post='2667228'] We will fight until they come out, period. No one ever said that Karma would be the end of NPO ever having to fight a war again. For most people this war isn't about Karma. [/quote] Only the ones that planned it.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1300341115' post='2667210'] This is pretty hilarious. NPO suddenly finds the same terms they imposed on FAN mean and terrible. Whoever thought these up needs a pay raise, truly, because you're actually forcing NPO to say their actions were wrong, even if it's not directly. [/quote] Didn't NPO do exactly that the other day in an apology? Odd.

EDIT - off topic

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300340113' post='2667167'] Not a single NPO nation in its top 61 is in war mode (Bakunin appears to have made a brave strike into the fray. Kudos to him.) That is 4.2 million NS, not even continuing to the vast numbers hiding just below. MK's individuals are scattered about and inevitably emerge. The numbers of concern are not of population but strength. [/quote] Thank you for your answer.

[quote name='Mofeta' timestamp='1300339776' post='2667158'] Let's recall the original point you were trying to make: A straight up fight is exactly what we were expecting. It is what should have resulted had it not been for your mass flight into PM. Arguing about who had more NS in the initial declaration will not change this fact. [/quote] My initial point was never in question because it was correct. Since we are going to play the "let's go back and look at first posts" game, let's take a look at yours and my initial response: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99990&view=findpost&p=2667036 [quote][quote name='Mofeta' timestamp='1300336721' post='2667016'] What are you even trying to argue here? [b]Doomhouse declared without a numerical advantage[/b], especially when factoring in various counters. And we certainly expected to fight your upper-tier nations from the get-go. The only thing that denied us a 'straight-up fight' from the very beginning was the staggering cowardice displayed by your coalition. We are merely offering you a chance to redeem yourselves. [/quote] Is that right? Interesting. I could have sworn the NPO had something like 16 million NS on January 23. Didn't you guys declare with something in the neighborhood of 31 million? Now, as I said, I am no genius with the CN technical stuff but I am almost certain 31 isn't less than 16.[/quote] (bolding mine) As I said later, you inferred that counters were to be included but especially isn't a qualifier. It is an add on to what you posted as a statistical fact prior. You stated that Doomhouse declared without a numerical advantage. It is right there in black and white. Those are your words. That is a lie. It is incorrect by every stat collector's statistics in the Cyberverse. What the difference may or may not have been on the 3rd day of fighting is immaterial and has nothing to do with the initial declaration or your initial point. So yeah, cool story bro. Perhaps it would be best to just move along to something else. You spoke out of your ass, I called you on it, the end. It is almost two here so I won't be able to go back and forth with you stating the same thing [i]ad nauseum [/i]with you much longer.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300339515' post='2667152'] Well, we offered to talk about the length of the play or the subject, but the very idea of any play whatsoever was just unacceptable to them. It could be a three scene skit and they wouldn't take it. [/quote] I guess I will have to accept that you don't have an explanation for the lack of clear logical reasoning in your position regarding peace mode differences between MK and NPO, correct?

[quote name='Mofeta' timestamp='1300338753' post='2667127'] I haven't failed to make my point in the slightest. We went into this war expecting a more or less even fight, since we had the very basic foresight of expecting NPO's MDP partners to jump in immediately (which they did). Accordingly, both sides had roughly equal NS for the first 2-3 rounds of the war, exactly as expected. To claim that we should have ignored the obvious when gauging our strength and odds is honestly bewildering. I mean, by your logic, NPO was by far the stronger side during the Karma war. [/quote] I never said you should ignore them. Unlike some people here I say exactly what I mean when I say it. I stated that you can not state that your side was the weaker one at the time of the declaration because that was not true. You also fail to mention that several of those MDP partners were otherwise engaged and that some of your partners went out of their way to attempt to coax and threaten them into staying out of the war, a failed tactic to be certain, but one that would have had some level of upper tier support and therefore some assumption that those numbers would not add onto the NPO side of the conflict. If you are someone "in the know" within Doomhouse (and I have no idea if you are or not) and you are out here spouting that you went into this war with the [i]intention[/i] of being on the losing side then you are a strategic mastermind. But that isn't the point you attempted to make. You stated that Doomhouse declared on NPO from an initial position of numeric inferiority and that is just a lie. It will always be a lie. You can't change that.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1300338421' post='2667111'] Is this a serious thing? Am I really reading this? [/quote] It is indeed. The difference is that I did actually address the point he was attempting to make, unlike his little friend. I never claimed to be above petty insults, I just said that doing so without actual comment on the point was weak.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300337280' post='2667047'] I see, so even though the vast majority of those nations currently in peace mode have actually fought at some point in this war and statistically the percentages are more or less the same as MK's you somehow believe that your position in regards to "hiding in peace mode" is somehow superior because of the absolute value and not the relative value of the two components? I am just trying to clarify the logic behind this position, since it doesn't make a bit of sense to me on the surface. Thanks in advance. [/quote] Ardus, I see you commenting on other posts and this was in direct response to an issue you addressed.

[quote name='Free Quebec' timestamp='1300338161' post='2667095'] I see your alliance, but give you no pass. let's see the terrible NPO warriors come out of peace and fight like you say they can. They made great work of ODN one on one, yes? [/quote] My giving you a pass was a courtesy. You were wrong in your comment. You are still incorrect now. You simply making some smartassed remark will not change the error of your position. The NPO has fought wars on its own. That is a fact. You stated otherwise. Therefore you are wrong. See how that works?

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1300338127' post='2667092'] excluding the time period from "The Initiative - The Continuum". Yeah not that big of a deal tbh. [/quote] Very true, because you were such a key player back then, right? I never said it was a "big deal" I pointed out the error of your young comrades statement.

[quote name='Mofeta' timestamp='1300337900' post='2667079'] How the hell were you ever in charge of planning wars? [/quote] I see I hit the mark. You can't respond to my point so you launch an attack. You believe that just because certain actions are expected that those end results justify your initial move. That is incorrect. You can't claim to be on the weaker side when the fact is that you weren't by any statistical measurement when the declaration came. Whether I am aware of the logistics involved in planning a war or not is immaterial and not relevant to my point (or the point you attempted to make and failed).

[quote name='Free Quebec' timestamp='1300337853' post='2667077'] It would be first time NPO ever fought war for itself. I think they lose. [/quote] I see your join date and will give you a pass on this one. But you incorrect. The Orders have fought many wars on their own.

[quote name='Mofeta' timestamp='1300337316' post='2667048'] I am almost certain that once you include the 'various counters' that I mentioned, such as Legion, NSO, TOOL, Invicta, etc, we expected to be fighting significantly more than 16 million NS [/quote] No, that is not at all what you said. You might have inferred some fanciful idea of counters but in order for counters to exist you had to have a declaration, which you did, with roughly a 2 to 1 advantage.' You attempting to claim that the counters, which were in turn countered, as the basis of your being on the weaker side initially in the conflict is a fallacy on every level. In short, you are doing it wrong.

[quote name='mhawk' timestamp='1300337202' post='2667043'] I'm going directly off the logs from the talks between DH and NPO. [/quote] Perhaps they need better negotiators.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300336938' post='2667028'] A handful of nations have been quarantined in peace due to realitis. No doubt the same is the case for NPO, which is why our demand is for an "overwhelming majority" of Pacifica's peace mode warriors, as opposed to down to the last. [/quote] I see, so even though the vast majority of those nations currently in peace mode have actually fought at some point in this war and statistically the percentages are more or less the same as MK's you somehow believe that your position in regards to "hiding in peace mode" is somehow superior because of the absolute value and not the relative value of the two components? I am just trying to clarify the logic behind this position, since it doesn't make a bit of sense to me on the surface. Thanks in advance.