Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[KingEd]

Over 200 pages... wow.

I hate all of you.

Yea it's getting to that point. My only question is why are people still posting in a thread that should of died right after it was posted. Pacifica made its point in their OP, they cannot pay the reps without those side terms of 14 days of war being removed. I saw various "Karma" members say the terms weren't changing. So why keep posting ? Both sides have to get together and come to some sort of resolution unless they want a FAN War 2.0 type of thing.

[enderland]

Yea it's getting to that point. My only question is why are people still posting in a thread that should of died right after it was posted. Pacifica made its point in their OP, they cannot pay the reps without those side terms of 14 days of war being removed. I saw various "Karma" members say the terms weren't changing. So why keep posting ? Both sides have to get together and come to some sort of resolution unless they want a FAN War 2.0 type of thing.

People are still posting because people (like you) falsely believe that these terms are unpayable.

[Aurion]

Lets try and keep the off-relevance messages down a bit. I'm sure we can leave that to some of our friends on the other side of the fence.

All things considered, you probably should have stuck with being off-topic.

Yea it's getting to that point. My only question is why are people still posting in a thread that should of died right after it was posted. Pacifica made its point in their OP, they cannot pay the reps without those side terms of 14 days of war being removed.

Which is !@#$%^&*.

That plus the angling for pity is just pathetic.

[KinKiac]

I did not say that. Some people here would like to read in between my words which as a non-English speaker are always not the most well crafted. I have said that as a large alliance we have a strong community, I have not said smaller alliances do not. I have said that we have advantages in that large community, I then in the next sentence said your alliance also has its own advantage.

With regards to "real people", I mean that 500 REAL people <OOC>Behind a screen</OOC> are members of the NPO and as such that matters to me as it would matter your xxx number to your own alliance. These 500 people should have a chance to continue in the alliance they have chosen and not be forced by your actions to disband.

These selective quotes used in order to make NPO, "look bad" are the kinds of tricks that I thought were meant to be banished in the past in order to have a fairer game future. With particular regard to your viceroy comment, I take offence at you leaving out my very next sentence which said that "However I would understand that in the current environment losing control is akin to disbanding for a preset period of time and I would generally be against them"

Using my words that are meant only to talk in a fair way about a few things I feel strongly about is counter-productive and goes against the spirit of trying to achieve some understanding. With my very first post stating "two wrongs don't make a right" I am clearly stating my moral position.

I believe I have integrity in my position and am not denigrating other alliances here. If you find me uncourteous then I apologise, but you would probably find it not the case if you didn't quote selected words and looked at the meaning and depths of feelings behind a whole post. I never said, nor intoned that the Community in other alliances is bad, but I don't speak for them I speak as a Body Republic member of the NPO and I think our community is important to protect, even though our <ooc>pixels</ooc> are lost.

I believe strongly in our community as you likely do in yours. The difference is while I accept that we have lost a war, lost a number of tags and spots and prestige that will have a long term effect on us and in addition we have to pay reparations on a scale, that even with inflation is huge, I do not accept that further additional terms designed to keep the NPO down for years is right as their primary purpose appears to be, or at least will have the effect of killing a community. A thing that to me, is precious.

So as not to take your words out of context Ill quote your whole post. First off no one is forcing anyone to disband. If your leaders feel it would be better to disband then to pay reps(something that would take 6 months tops) then that is their decision. A decision, that the NPO has given to alliances in the past, that actually led to their disbandment. FAN didnt disband and neither did OcUK. Others did.

Second, selective quotes and re-writing history is something the NPO excels at. Just what are they telling you guys right now? I bet they are saying that Pacifica's crimes are not that bad, and that everyone is overreacting, they've all done it themselves, bunch of hypocrites right? Well, think about this for a second, how many alliance are against NPO right now? What does it take for that many alliances, including former NPO allies, to turn on you like they have? Surely not everyone is making stuff up, overreacting, taking things out of context, lying and putting spin on things. Most of the people fighting alongside one another arent even great friends. Think about that for a second, think about what the NPO must have done for that many people to turn on them. Hell they even had a tiny alliance(Vox) dedicated to thier destruction. No, not everyone(actually very few) are just trying to make NPO look bad. NPO has done a great job of that themselves.

You also say 2 wrongs dont make a right. Fair enough. What about 1 wrong to right 10+. Is the death penalty ok for a mass murderer? In my opinion it is. Im not even for the death penalty, but if someone killed over and over again, what else is there left to do? !@#$ Id probably kill the SOB myself. Im not calling NPO a murderer, but what I am saying is that it is only fair for the NPO to taste "a bit" of their own medicine ONCE, after many indiscretions.

There are many communities here on Planet Bob. There are many who had previously been told by your leaders that they will not be allowed to exist. Why do they matter less than yours? You say that community means a lot to you and yet you align yourself with an alliance that destroys communities. That alone says more than words can about "what" community means more to you.

You have lost the war, as you yourself agree, but your leaders refuse to give it up. The terms handed to you are not going to keep you down for "years". They will keep you from being a threat for a maybe a year or so. They will be paid off within 6 months or less with the kind of organization an alliance as large as NPO has. With billions in reserve(many more billions than are asked for in the terms I might add) your community will not be destroyed. You will be put in the same position Polar was last fall. A far cry from where your leaders have kept FAN for the last 2 years, a far cry from the fate your leaders would have given Vox if they had their way, and a far cry from being destroyed. Just take your beating, quit whining about the terms, they are better then what your leaders will do to us if they can, and get on with your lives.

Or, you can fight on, making the risk of losing members and the dangers of disbandment even greater. The choice is yours, or rather your leaders'. I hope they make the right decision for you and your precious community.

[Van Hoo III]

Another comrade of ours posted this on our forums. Not sure if it was reposted here, but I'll post it again just in case:

OK, fine, we're willing to pay the money. We don't like the fact that we have to, but we're willing to. We were even willing to pay MORE, just for Karma to drop their ridiculous extra clauses that do nothing but try to completely destroy the NPO. Further, to preempt your argument, no, we can't put a price on a Viceroyship, but, for one, we aren't the only alliance to have every employed one. NpO and... oh, would you look at that, Ragnarok!

Oh hey, that was me!

I actually am not opposed to a viceroy in some instances and do not view them as evil if done correctly. I am, however, opposed to perpetual viceroys who involve themselves in every aspect of an alliance with the goal of molding said alliance into what the victors want them to be.

[Sarai]

Second, selective quotes and re-writing history is something the NPO excels at. Just what are they telling you guys right now? I bet they are saying that Pacifica's crimes

This is the only part I want to answer that I don't think has been answered before. As Body Republic members we are able to see most discussions within the Alliance. We also have access to all research via tools such as Wikipedia, the CN forums and so forth. Members make up their own minds, but we also are loyal and follow orders. That's no different to any other alliance here.

[MayorTim]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Since everyone around here loves undebatable statistics (myself included), here you go.

* First Arctic War - Unknown reparations paid or not paid to NPO

* Citrus War - $500,000 paid to NPO.

* ICSN Debacle - Unknown reparations paid or not paid to NPO

* Second Polar War - No reparations Paid to NPO

* Great War I - No reparations paid.

* Great War II - No repartions paid to NPO.

* Holy War of Farkistan - No reparations paid to NPO

* Great War III - $800,000,000 paid to NPO and pals.

* The Alaskan Folly - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Green Civil War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* NPO-ONOS War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* FAN-WUT War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Great War IV - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Reeducation of Devildogs - No reparations paid to NPO.

* FAN-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Continuum-GPA War - 10,000 technology or $300,000,000 paid to NPO.

* Wolfpack War - 3,600 technology paid to NPO.

* GATO-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Golden Sabres War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* NPO-BDC War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* CIS-1V War - No reparations paid to NPO.

* Great War 5 -

o 500 tech

o 58,000 tech

o 2,000 tech

o 8,000 tech

o Total Great War 5 Reparations = 68,500 Technology.

Total Reparations New Pacific Order has ever recieved: $800,500,000 and 82,100 Technology.

Karma Terms: $7,000,000,000,000 and 300,000 technology.

Karma demands roughly 8.75x more money than NPO got from her wars,

and

Roughly 3.65x the Technology NPO recieved from her wars.

This does not factor in things like viceroys or special terms from us, nor does it factor in the special terms of moving everyone to war mode for 14 days, or specifying who can pay reps offered by you. In my opinion (though this is an opinion and not based in numerical fact like the numbers above) Your special terms are also harsher than any we've ever offered anyone.

[Teriethien]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Since everyone around here loves undebatable statistics (myself included), here you go.

This does not factor in things like viceroys or special terms from us, nor does it factor in the special terms of moving everyone to war mode for 14 days, or specifying who can pay reps offered by you. In my opinion (though this is an opinion and not based in numerical fact like the numbers above) Your special terms are also harsher than any we've ever offered anyone.

Inflation is a difficult concept.

Also this has been thrown out and rebutted already.

[MayorTim]

Inflation is a difficult concept.

Also this has been thrown out and rebutted already.

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

[Teriethien]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Well, can't argue with this

[R&R-Viking]

212 pages in, I feel NPO members reading this now need to be informed (again) of a few things.

1. Karma does not care about your "community", much in the same way NPO did not care about ours. Tough.

2. The terms aren't gonna budge, and we have the backbone to see this through.

3. PR does not help when the vast majority of people reading your "decree" wants to see your head on a stake. There aren't many fence sitters here on the OWF.

4. Tell your story walking.

Hope that helps.

[NoFish]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Since everyone around here loves undebatable statistics (myself included), here you go.

This does not factor in things like viceroys or special terms from us, nor does it factor in the special terms of moving everyone to war mode for 14 days, or specifying who can pay reps offered by you. In my opinion (though this is an opinion and not based in numerical fact like the numbers above) Your special terms are also harsher than any we've ever offered anyone.

Our special terms are harsher than being forced to disband? Really?

And as I've offered before: We drop the special terms, you accept only having 13 nukes as an alliance indefinitely. Try taking that offer to your gov and see where it gets you, I'm pretty sure I could get our end to accept.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Well you do deserve it. Glad you're not arguing that point.

[KinKiac]

This is the only part I want to answer that I don't think has been answered before. As Body Republic members we are able to see most discussions within the Alliance. We also have access to all research via tools such as Wikipedia, the CN forums and so forth. Members make up their own minds, but we also are loyal and follow orders. That's no different to any other alliance here.

What about the IO forums? Private gov IRC channels FTW? You see and hear what your government wants you to see and hear. Thats how a dictatorship works. Oh and as far as wiki is concerned that is what I was talking about and it is something that has been touched on in a number of topics on here. The winners are the ones who write history, and it always paints them as being totally justified in what they had done. If you think your leaders tell your body republic the entire story you are very naive.

Also, I like how you only respond to that one point.

[mykep]

As long as your terms don't hurt the people I am sure they will be accepted.

Do you know what a war is?

So you'd rather an entire alliance of 700 people (minus whatever ghosts are still left, obviously) [OOC]no longer be able to play the game that you and everyone else in this thread seems to enjoy playing? How selfish of you. All of you.[/OOC]

Yes. Yes I would. Considering thats the option you left for alot of others, including me. You are no better than anyone you gave terms to. Get over it.

[mykep]

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

I believe after we are done with you, we'll enjoy killing each other at a more respetable level. Everyone but you in this war and the last few previous wars has recieved white peace.

And no, you dont deserve white peace.

[Vilien]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

You deserve worse than this.

[R&R-Viking]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

You do know a huge chunk of us never promised to be King Arthur, right? I wouldn't care if all your nations burned for eternity.

Put that in your pipe and nuke it.

[NoFish]

I believe after we are done with you, we'll enjoy killing each other at a more respetable level. Everyone but you in this war and the last few previous wars has recieved white peace.

And no, you dont deserve white peace.

Uh, you might want to rephrase that, it looks like you're saying NPO is the only one who isn't getting white peace which I know you can't mean.

[Striker DCS]

I have not read all of the pages in this long thread. To be honest I could care less about any reparations paid or specific terms of surrender. I speak for one small alliance (out of the hundreds) that was abused by NPO during it's reign of terror.

No reparations, apologies, or reorganization terms can be big enough or strong enough to erase what they have done. What they did, they did with malice and forethought.

I speak for myself but I am sure that many will share my opinion.

No surrender, no terms, no reorganization, no survival.

NPO deserves to be completely and totally destroyed. Their alliance name should be removed from the game never to be used again. They lived by the sword and so they should die by the sword, no quarters. Any attempts by NPO to weasel out of their situation should fall on deft ears.

NPO thought nothing of destroying nations and alliances just because they could.

The only fitting and fair way for this to end is with their complete destruction and their alliance name removed from Planet Bob, never to be used again.

Anything less than their total annihilation would not satisfy the wrongs they have committed. For any alliance or bloc to consider anything less than NPO's complete destruction would allow their many actions to go unpunished.

I hope the day will come when NPO is no more and those NPO officials who sponsored and dictated their many crimes on the world have felt the total and complete wrath of Planet Bob.

I vote for the complete and utter destruction of NPO.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Striker DCS

[mykep]

Uh, you might want to rephrase that, it looks like you're saying NPO is the only one who isn't getting white peace which I know you can't mean.

Giving them fuel for an argument.

/me pokes at fire.

[Heracles the Great]

I was going to write out a long winded and factual reply as to why Karma is hypocritical to the point of being funny. Then I remembered that there's no point.

At least I don't see any more of the white horse, good guy, ending oppression and making CN a better place garbage anymore. That's all gone and been replaced with "Well, you deserve it"

Since everyone around here loves undebatable statistics (myself included), here you go.

This does not factor in things like viceroys or special terms from us, nor does it factor in the special terms of moving everyone to war mode for 14 days, or specifying who can pay reps offered by you. In my opinion (though this is an opinion and not based in numerical fact like the numbers above) Your special terms are also harsher than any we've ever offered anyone.

Considering you are completely ignoring the reps in relation to the size of the alliance in question, I can't help but laugh

[R&R-Viking]

Considering you are completely ignoring the reps in relation to the size of the alliance in question, I can't help but laugh

Also it's one thing in recent history vs multiple things over 3 years.

Equally evil, I think.

[Tom Litler]

I have not read all of the pages in this long thread. To be honest I could care less about any reparations paid or specific terms of surrender. I speak for one small alliance (out of the hundreds) that was abused by NPO during it's reign of terror.

No reparations, apologies, or reorganization terms can be big enough or strong enough to erase what they have done. What they did, they did with malice and forethought.

I speak for myself but I am sure that many will share my opinion.

No surrender, no terms, no reorganization, no survival.

NPO deserves to be completely and totally destroyed. Their alliance name should be removed from the game never to be used again. They lived by the sword and so they should die by the sword, no quarters. Any attempts by NPO to weasel out of their situation should fall on deft ears.

NPO thought nothing of destroying nations and alliances just because they could.

The only fitting and fair way for this to end is with their complete destruction and their alliance name removed from Planet Bob, never to be used again.

Anything less than their total annihilation would not satisfy the wrongs they have committed. For any alliance or bloc to consider anything less than NPO's complete destruction would allow their many actions to go unpunished.

I hope the day will come when NPO is no more and those NPO officials who sponsored and dictated their many crimes on the world have felt the total and complete wrath of Planet Bob.

I vote for the complete and utter destruction of NPO.

Your opinion is largely irrelevant because you weren't even present to witness most of the New Pacific Order's transgressions.

I hope you're happy playing the party line like a broken record.

[R&R-Viking]

Your opinion is largely irrelevant because you weren't even present to witness most of the New Pacific Order's transgressions.

I hope you're happy playing the party line like a broken record.

I've been here since 06 and I agree with him. What now?

e- also are you a reroll or just a gigantic hypocrite?

Edited June 16, 2009 by Viking

[KingEd]

People are still posting because people (like you) falsely believe that these terms are unpayable.

Did I ever say "I think these reparations are unpayable ? I merely said Pacifica made its point, their point being that they cannot. I never agreed or disagreed with such a statement.