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Why I am getting ZIed


Rajistani

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I don't want this to reflect badly on anyone but heres full logs:

Session Start: Sun May 03 00:23:39 2009

Session Ident: MrCyber[GRE]

01[00:23] <Rajistani> hey are you there?

01[00:23] <Rajistani> i believe we spoke with in-game PMs

[00:25] <MrCyber[GRE]> Hi

01[00:25] <Rajistani> I couldn't find your big boards account

01[00:25] <Rajistani> you wanted me to PM you logs i believe.

[00:26] <MrCyber[GRE]> could be. :) I've PMend many nations over the past 6 days

[00:26] <MrCyber[GRE]> It's MrCyber

01[00:26] <Rajistani> Ah, you do it all alone?

01[00:26] <Rajistani> i was thinking maybe everyone had like 5 karma pow nations to watch

01[00:26] <Rajistani> alright ill be sending them shortly

[00:26] <MrCyber[GRE]> yeah atm I am doing it alone

01[00:29] <Rajistani> that must suck im guessing a master list with links to every nation on it you go through everyday?

[00:31] <MrCyber[GRE]> Nah.. it's all in a database. Pretty easy to keep up w/

[00:31] <MrCyber[GRE]> Just starting to run out of actions/day now :P

01[00:31] <Rajistani> :o:(

01[00:31] <Rajistani> well im leaving the AA so i hope that helps

[00:32] <MrCyber[GRE]> You can't leave the AA until 30 days or until the conflict has ended

01[00:32] <Rajistani> i just sent logs...

01[00:32] <Rajistani> it wasnt an individual surrender

01[00:32] <Rajistani> it was an alliance surrender

[00:33] <MrCyber[GRE]> You surrendered individually by joining the Karma POW

[00:34] <MrCyber[GRE]> so those individual terms apply to you

01[00:34] <Rajistani> i joined karma pow because one of the leaders of the allianc ei was surrendering to

01[00:34] <Rajistani> wasnt online

01[00:34] <Rajistani> and we werent sure if he would require it or not

01[00:34] <Rajistani> my logs include a conversation with said leader, londo, stating i can leave

01[00:34] <Rajistani> i assume that means its okay with Gramlins?

[00:34] <MrCyber[GRE]> Londo has no authorization to release people from Karma POW status

01[00:35] <Rajistani> I didn't individually surrender.

01[00:35] <Rajistani> IDC (my alliance at the time) surrendered to Athens

01[00:35] <Rajistani> (Londos alliance)

[00:35] <MrCyber[GRE]> By joining Karma POW you individually surrendered.

01[00:35] <Rajistani> i dont see why the karma affiliation has anything to do with it. i guess i ghosted it for one day.

01[00:36] <Rajistani> if you want me to be attacked for ghosting karma pow, then you can.

[00:36] <MrCyber[GRE]> which means you got picked up by our database

01[00:36] <Rajistani> I didn't post in the thread.

[00:36] <MrCyber[GRE]> which means you're considered a Karma POW

01[00:36] <Rajistani> I didn't individally surrender

01[00:36] <Rajistani> according to the terms posted by Karma

01[00:36] <Rajistani> in the alliance politics section

[00:37] <MrCyber[GRE]> lots of people don't post there because they don't have an account, so it's impossible to go by that statistic

[00:37] <MrCyber[GRE]> and since new account creation was turned off for several days they couldn't create an account either

01[00:38] <Rajistani> I understand that, but that is one of the terms required for an individual surrender; is it not?

01[00:38] <Rajistani> so by that logic, if one did not post there, he did not technically surrender individually.

01[00:38] <Rajistani> (he or she*

01[00:38] <Rajistani> )

[00:38] <MrCyber[GRE]> It is and it isn't. Joining Karma POW is what we've measured by.

01[00:39] <Rajistani> I understand that.

01[00:39] <Rajistani> But I accidently joined Karma PoW.

01[00:39] <Rajistani> I would like to be removed from the database.

[00:39] <MrCyber[GRE]> it's the easiest as it'll also take care of people that think they can ghost Karma POW and get away w/ it.

[00:39] <MrCyber[GRE]> You were on the AA for > 29 hours, that's not an accident.

01[00:39] <Rajistani> The loophole is that one can ghost karma pow, and never leave and be fine.

01[00:40] <Rajistani> 29 hours - because we were waiting for a response

[00:40] <MrCyber[GRE]> Yep but they then still have to adhere to the rest of the terms, such as decomming improvements, nukes, navy, etc

[00:40] <MrCyber[GRE]> + they have to stay for 30 days or until the Karma war is completely over, whichever comes first.

01[00:40] <Rajistani> Right, well i feel we are going backwards.

01[00:41] <Rajistani> I didn't surrender individually.

01[00:41] <Rajistani> Can we agree on that?

[00:41] <MrCyber[GRE]> Yes you did by joining the Karma POW

01[00:41] <Rajistani> Joining an alliance affiliation does not mean i surrendered individually.

01[00:41] <Rajistani> If you attack me for being a ghost, fine.

01[00:41] <Rajistani> do not attack me for violating terms.

01[00:41] <Rajistani> fair?

[00:41] <MrCyber[GRE]> Yes it does mean that. Especially joining a POW alliance

[00:42] <MrCyber[GRE]> It's been that way for the almost 2 years I've been on CN

01[00:42] <Rajistani> I am only 14 days old

01[00:42] <Rajistani> Nation Created: 4/17/2009 2:29:33 PM (15 days old)

[00:43] <MrCyber[GRE]> Yeah that doesn't matter. The same terms apply for nations that are 1 day old and those that are 1000 days old

01[00:43] <Rajistani> Right - well if I leave and you attack me. what happens next?

01[00:44] <Rajistani> Do i get perma Zied?

[00:44] <MrCyber[GRE]> No in this case prolly single ZI for violation of peace terms

[00:46] <MrCyber[GRE]> Just make things easy on yourself and return to the Karma POW that way you can build your nation in peace and join your alliance once you get released, which will be after max 30 days.

01[00:47] <Rajistani> Nah

01[00:47] <Rajistani> ef that

01[00:47] <Rajistani> you have 13 minutes to set up a quad on me. ('till update)

01[00:47] <Rajistani> ill save you time

01[00:47] <Rajistani> heres a link

01[00:47] <Rajistani> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=321017

01[00:48] <Rajistani> im 5k NS right now

I am posting this because I want to know what I did wrong here; and I don't know who to ask.

Edited by Rajistani
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I don't want this to reflect badly on anyone but heres full logs:

I am posting this because I want to know what I did wrong here; and I don't know who to ask.

Could of been taken care of via private channels very easily. That being said, why in the heck would you ghost a POW AA. That is just plain dumb tbh. Contact me via IRC and I'll figure out what all is going on.

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Oh but as stated in the logs - I wasn't on individual terms. It was an alliance surrender. I joined Karma PoW for a day; but was then told I didn't have to, so I left.

[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> Alright

[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> you're free to go.

[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> just don't reenter the conflict

[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> or aid anyone in the conflict.

[00:19] <Londo|makingvideo> or join an alliance that is Hegemony

01[00:19] <Raji|Gone> Awesome.

01[00:19] <Raji|Gone> is GDA hegemony?

[00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> yeah but they surrendered

[00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> so you can go there.

01[00:20] <Raji|Gone> Awesome. :)

01[00:20] <Raji|Gone> thanks for everything.

[00:20] <Londo|makingvideo> np

Edited by Rajistani
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This whole thing sounds like kind of a mixup/cluster****. Tell you what. Once you're clear of repercussions (I expect it won't be long), if you need help rebuilding, feel free to contact me.

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I don't really think its fair to others that you can join Karma POW and leave because one Karma leader told you to, probably without fully understanding certain aspects of Karma POW. Like MrCyber said, this is determined by all the leaders so you broke terms either way. You should've thought before you acted and joined the Karma POW AA.

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Rajistan, i guess you spoke to the wrong person..

i think Londo is not in Karma Leadership therefore he doesn't have a right to release you from karma PoW..

i suggest you speak to higher ranks in Karma..

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Rajistan, i guess you spoke to the wrong person..

i think Londo is not in Karma Leadership therefore he doesn't have a right to release you from karma PoW..

i suggest you speak to higher ranks in Karma..

There is no Karma leadership.

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This problem has been addressed. I think we told him to go to Karma POW when that wasn't the right place for him. It's all been sorted, you're clear Rajistani.

lol, thats what you said before!

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Just out of curiosity, who does have authority to release people from Karma POW then?

Generally nations aren't released until their (former) alliance surrenders, but excepts on a case by case basis are given by the alliance with whom they technically surrendered too.

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Just out of curiosity, who does have authority to release people from Karma POW then?

It's not really a question of authority so much as logistics. In principle every PoW should stay in the camp until either the war ends, 30 days have passed, or their native alliance surrenders. In the case of the last, or for an error such as I think this is (I only skimmed the logs) just about anybody can sort it out as long as they communicate with the people monitoring the PoW AA.

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It's not really a question of authority so much as logistics. In principle every PoW should stay in the camp until either the war ends, 30 days have passed, or their native alliance surrenders. In the case of the last, or for an error such as I think this is (I only skimmed the logs) just about anybody can sort it out as long as they communicate with the people monitoring the PoW AA.

This guy's native alliance had surrendered, and he was told to return to Karma POW.

Well I'm just gonna stay mystified I guess. :)

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