The MVP's Blog

I don't get it. Why not just take the opportunity to think about whatever you're thankful for, on your own terms? If no one else is aware of this sinister origin of the holiday that you mention, then can you really say that's what they're celebrating?

Veiled truths my friend. Conveniently forgotten to the annals of time. Victors write history, etc.

Thanksgiving is not a relevant day in Europe. Never was, probably never will be.

With that said, I am not exactly sure what Turkey has to do with either the Crusades or the Reconquista, because Granada fell before America and the bird were discovered.

tl;dr: white people are bad and they kill poor non-whites who never did anything wrong

Thanksgiving is not a relevant day in Europe. Never was, probably never will be.

With that said, I am not exactly sure what Turkey has to do with either the Crusades or the Reconquista, because Granada fell before America and the bird were discovered.

MVP can see through every conspiracy. Charles Martel runs the Illuminati and puts flourine in your drinking water on Christmas!

Suppose that in your history class, they taught you the 'truth.' What is the evidence that links the pilgrims' celebrations, and the thanksgiving that Pope Urban made? Are you going off of their proximity in the calendar, or are you just claiming that any thankksgiving celebrated is the same as the one Urban instituted? Is there something else? I can't see any connection between them.

You do realize the Fourth Crusade was launched to sack Constantinople right?

Incorrect. The Fourth Crusade was launched to recapture Jerusalem. The crusaders abandoned their mission and instead looted Constantinople. The Pope had already excommunicated the soldiers of the 4th Crusade for attacking Zara in order to repay Venetian merchants for the cost of transporting them to Cairo. Once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the topics you're attempting to base your protest of Thanksgiving on.

Highlighted for hilarity. Apparently I am supposed to celebrate.

Hilarity, indeed. You continue to completely fail to understand that thanksgiving, is a word with no intrinsic establishment in the crusades or Spanish Inquisistion. Memorial Day is a day of thanksgiving to fallen soldiers. Boss's Day is a day of thanksgiving. Secretaries day is a day of thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is just a word. Just as Memorial day, a day of thanksgiving, has nothing to do with the thanksgiving of the Pope, the Thanksgiving that is celebrated tomorrow has nothing to do with the day of thanksgiving declared by the Pope over any crusade.

I agreed up until you said, "They were like Native Americans" now hold up just a minute. What the hell? No Christians in Egypt are still abundant, they're no where near extermination or being put on reservations for display. And by the way, who did attack the Native Americans and subjugate them under their will? Hmm... let's ignore that in favor of looking at the Arabs!This is you trying to play off one of the most despicable acts of genocide and linking it to the Arabs. Are you high?

You misunderstood my sentence. I said "If they [your ancestors] were Muslims, they were conquerors [of the various populations I listed] the same way that the [british and Spanish] colonists were conquerors of Native Americans, and [in that case] they were at war with European Christian [Crusaders] because they were there [in areas effected by the Crusades] as conquering, occupying soldiers."

They were not victims.

Mhm, so let me ask why do you think the Pope really wanted to send civilians, not an army, but citizens out to the Middle East to re-conquer Jerusalem? For their salvation? Look where Western Europe is now in terms of Christianity, sure worked out great in the long run! So let me ask, is George Bush's crusade in Iraq similar to Pope Urban's?

There were no standing, professional armies of any size in Europe in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries; the Pope's only pool of recruits was the same pool of recruits that secular governemnts had: farming serfs and vassal knights. After that you get all weird and political about an issue that has nothign to do with why you're completely wrong about everything you've said in this blog.

There is no way this isn't a joke post, not even the Aut could act this condescending about how the rest of us don't know the "real" history while being so completely oblivious to actual fact. Newsflash, the American public school system sucks but some of us don't depend on it as the major source of information in our lives. You're not enlightened, you're another ignorant person with an agenda that doesn't make sense.

Or you're joking.

Your argument...

Dude, Schatt is kicking your ass up and down, down and up, left and right, right and left.

Having read Schatt v. The MVP...Schatt is winning and it's not even close. Aut, your arguments aren't holding up. Especially when Schatt made the examples of other days of thanks. Another good examples would be Father's Day or Mother's Day as days we observe to thank our parents for what they do for us. Thanksgiving is just a word and what we do on that day is give general thanks for the simple fact that we are alive, healthy, with family, etc.

I mean I don't know, man. I like you and I don't want you to get upset with me over your personal beliefs. I'm not trying to belittle you but I got into argument mode. You're welcome to do whatever you want to do about tomorrow but if these are your real reasons all I'm saying if you should sit down and if you don't believe me, then sit down with a history professor. The Crusades were bad, the Spanish Inquisition was bad, there may or may not have been days of thansgiving declared over each one, but wha tI'm saying is that Thanksgiving does not equal "thanksgiving."

Guys shut up. You've ruined a perfectly good thread about the word, "Granada". Just let it roll off your tongue and tell me if you don't feel like you just creamed your pants.

This has got to be the funniest thing I've read in the last week. Thanks AUT, you get a gold star.

Tbh I'm pretty sure my cat could come up with a better and more historically accurate argument as to why Thanksgiving is bad.

Or you could just celebrate it because you're thankful for whatever aspects of your life you're grateful for. And because the traditional thanksgiving dinner is delicious.

Incorrect. The Fourth Crusade was launched to recapture Jerusalem. The crusaders abandoned their mission and instead looted Constantinople. The Pope had already excommunicated the soldiers of the 4th Crusade for attacking Zara in order to repay Venetian merchants for the cost of transporting them to Cairo. Once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the topics you're attempting to base your protest of Thanksgiving on.

Not quite. The anger between the East and West have been growing for awhile. Western Crusaders ransacked Constantinople due to the use of i-cons which was strongly opposed in the Western Church. The i-cons were desecrated.

Hilarity, indeed. You continue to completely fail to understand that thanksgiving, is a word with no intrinsic establishment in the crusades or Spanish Inquisistion. Memorial Day is a day of thanksgiving to fallen soldiers. Boss's Day is a day of thanksgiving. Secretaries day is a day of thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is just a word. Just as Memorial day, a day of thanksgiving, has nothing to do with the thanksgiving of the Pope, the Thanksgiving that is celebrated tomorrow has nothing to do with the day of thanksgiving declared by the Pope over any crusade.

That's a bad argument. That's like saying a pyramid is a pyramid because it's shaped like a pyramid. That's the wrong approach. A pyramid is called a pyramid due to original structure built by the Ancient Egyptians, it is now thence referred to as a pyramid structure. Same with Thanksgiving. It was used as a means to state a day of thanks so now any day of thanks is called "Thanksgiving" notice this word isn't used outside of Western circles.

Fact is Pope Ferdinand sent Cardinal Xaminos to Spain in a league with Queen Isabella to kill all those who refused to convert to Christianity. This idea of "thanksgiving" is a Western concept embedded within the culture. Do you see a "thanksgiving" outside of the West? Well maybe it's because we're ungrateful swine! No, not even close.

You misunderstood my sentence. I said "If they [your ancestors] were Muslims, they were conquerors [of the various populations I listed] the same way that the [british and Spanish] colonists were conquerors of Native Americans, and [in that case] they were at war with European Christian [Crusaders] because they were there [in areas effected by the Crusades] as conquering, occupying soldiers."

They were not victims.

Okay, that's fine, but both aren't comparable and you know it.

There were no standing, professional armies of any size in Europe in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries; the Pope's only pool of recruits was the same pool of recruits that secular governemnts had: farming serfs and vassal knights. After that you get all weird and political about an issue that has nothign to do with why you're completely wrong about everything you've said in this blog.

There were kingdoms who could finance such armies and in fact the HRE would raise one under Barbarosa that was eventually sunk. The leader of Constantinople wanted a trained elite army of knights to show up, not a bunch of rabble rousing civilians.

Dude, Schatt is kicking your ass up and down, down and up, left and right, right and left.

Oh man you drank the kool-aid

There is no way this isn't a joke post, not even the Aut could act this condescending about how the rest of us don't know the "real" history while being so completely oblivious to actual fact. Newsflash, the American public school system sucks but some of us don't depend on it as the major source of information in our lives. You're not enlightened, you're another ignorant person with an agenda that doesn't make sense.

Or you're joking.

Don't ruin my fun you dirty imperialist.

Way to ignore my argument!

So basically you hate what you choose to think we celebrate so you refuse to celebrate even though that which we celebrate has absolutely no connection to that which you hate.

So say I claim New Years is based on the Eleusinian Mysteries and refuse to celebrate New Years because of it. Now all of you who celebrate New Years are uneducated bumpkins who only believe the propaganda you are fed in public schools! New Years is truly celebrating Demeter and Persephone. Woe to you who are blind to the truth!

So . . . a regular Thanksgiving.

Yep, just without the whole Jesus and God thing.

So basically you hate what you choose to think we celebrate so you refuse to celebrate even though that which we celebrate has absolutely no connection to that which you hate.

So say I claim New Years is based on the Eleusinian Mysteries and refuse to celebrate New Years because of it. Now all of you who celebrate New Years are uneducated bumpkins who only believe the propaganda you are fed in public schools! New Years is truly celebrating Demeter and Persephone. Woe to you who are blind to the truth!

Of course we are all uneducated until you guys came around.. but wait Egyptians, Mesopotamians and Mayans had a concept of the calendar before Europeans did! The concept of a "New Year" isn't a European concept, but how they teach it in schools you're tricked into believing it is.

I actually have work today, unfortunately it's just from 10-2 pm but oh well. Have a good 25th, I'll catch the other football game. Lions suck.

Happy thanksgiving, Aut. Have a great day.

Of course we are all uneducated until you guys came around.. but wait Egyptians, Mesopotamians and Mayans had a concept of the calendar before Europeans did! The concept of a "New Year" isn't a European concept, but how they teach it in schools you're tricked into believing it is.

What the $%&@ are you talking about? That literally ignored everything he said and was just a rant about how Europeans are terrible.

Yep, just without the whole Jesus and God thing.

What Jesus and God thing?

tl;dr: white people are bad and they kill poor non-whites who never did anything wrong

I ain't never killed a man who didn't deserve it.

Celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving instead. We do it way over in October so there's far fewer pope-y connotations.

I dunno AUT, but it seems to me you have an inferiority complex.

You might want to cool down a bit, think of your blood pressure.

I dunno AUT, but it seems to me you have an inferiority complex.

You might want to cool down a bit, think of your blood pressure.

No I'm actually better than you. From work today many stopped to say, "Happy Thanksgiving" I just said "have a nice day"