magicninja Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) There's nothing wrong with asking for reps as a punitive measure if it's justified. There have been some instances where this is the case. However, more often than not when reps are handed down on fringe alliances that were merely defending an ally it makes me laugh heartily at the alliance who asked for them. There are a few reasons to ask for reps in those instances and all show just how awful the alliance is that is asking for them. 1. They need it to rebuild themselves. This shows that they got their ass handed to them and are probably lucky they had bigger allies in the fight. If not for their pals these alliances would've been holding the !@#$ end of the stick. These are weak alliances who cannot stand on their own. Most alliances will never own up to this reason because they don't want to look weak but everyone knows it's there. 2. They want to look tough so no one will mess with them. They won a battle and think that if they throw in some reps people won't want to fight out of fear of the same treatment. This is again making up for what they lack in other areas. They think they are projecting strength when in reality they are showing just how weak they are. 3. They want to cripple the losing alliance. Well this just outright shows fear and weakness. It [i]may[/i] be the "smart" thing to do but it certainly is the scared and paranoid thing to do. 4. They are just greedy. Well this just shows the quality of people they are. People like this don't deserve respect from friend or foe alike. Probably the worst of the group. Very rarely are reps really justified. IRON and TOP deserved to pay reps last time around. that is one case where I think we all know reps were justified. However, besides rare cases where reps are obviously justified taking reps really does make you look weak and ridiculous. In my opinion anyway. There is no way to take reps without justification that makes you look good. That is why when CSN takes reps or Misfit Nations take reps as they have done it makes me happy to know the real quality of those alliances and will make it that much sweeter watching (and hell hopefully participating) when someone repays them in kind. Any alliance that is sure of itself and has a sense of self respect has no need for reps. They don't need the help rebuilding or the need to make a spectacle out of forcing tribute from another alliance. These alliances command respect....and they deserve it. That's what I think anyway. Edited March 2, 2011 by magicninja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DictatatorDan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [color="#FF0000"]Reps are no laughing matter.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Then, sir, how do [i]you[/i] define justice for the denizens of Bob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoryproblems Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote]1. They need it to rebuild themselves. This shows that they got their ass handed to them and are probably lucky they had bigger allies in the fight. If not for their pals these alliances would've been holding the !@#$ end of the stick. These are weak alliances who cannot stand on their own. Most alliances will never own up to this reason because they don't want to look weak but everyone knows it's there.[/quote] Sounds like CSN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299108403' post='2650011'] Then, sir, how do [i]you[/i] define justice for the denizens of Bob? [/quote] Just don't punish people for something you would do yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299108403' post='2650011'] Then, sir, how do [i]you[/i] define justice for the denizens of Bob? [/quote] [color="#0000FF"]Justice.... I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoryproblems Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299108403' post='2650011'] Then, sir, how do [i]you[/i] define justice for the denizens of Bob? [/quote] Justice for what, honoring a treaty and defending an ally? That deserves praise, not reparations designed to punish them for doing the honorable thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299108403' post='2650011'] Then, sir, how do [i]you[/i] define justice for the denizens of Bob? [/quote] Justice for what? pre-emptive strikes on unenaged parties or following a treaty? Because if the latter is now a crime, why bother with treaties anymore? lets pre-empt the smaller guys and crush out their existance (sorry NPO, ill return your playbook ASAP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1299108546' post='2650016'] Just don't punish people for something you would do yourself. [/quote] So justice is entirely based on the precipice of [i]punishment[/i] and nothing more? I'll keep that in mind. Edited March 2, 2011 by SpacingOutMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionic redhead Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1299108370' post='2650010'] [color="#FF0000"]Reps are no laughing matter.[/color] [/quote] What if you demand reps from a clown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1299108790' post='2650021'] [color="#0000FF"]Justice.... I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.[/color] [/quote] I asked a simple question. Rhetorical or not, it was a question without an assertion. [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1299108904' post='2650023'] Justice for what, honoring a treaty and defending an ally? That deserves praise, not reparations designed to punish them for doing the honorable thing. [/quote] Justice as a whole, hence the question. Just because I wear the CSN tag doesn't necessitate that I am questioning the validity of the post. It was a simple question, of which you all jumped to various conclusions. Edited March 2, 2011 by SpacingOutMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargarth Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 <insertwalloftextcommentabouthowlogicallythispersoniswrongeventhoughitistheiropinion> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DictatatorDan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [color="#FF0000"]So wait? You expect us to vote on your poor excuse for an original thought? There are far more adept individuals that could have made a far more nuanced approach to this subject.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithis Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Reps and warfare go hand in hand. If you're going to have an inter-alliance war, and both sides agree to discuss terms of ending hostilities, then the winning alliance has every right to dictate the terms over the losing alliance, doesn't matter what they are. A few years ago, it was tech raiding. Now apparently reps are the cool new thing to dislike on Planet Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James I Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 5. If you take reps, then you are clearly lacking in that most prized of assets: honour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299109015' post='2650028'] So justice is entirely based on the precipice of [i]punishment[/i] and nothing more? I'll keep that in mind. [/quote] On this planet it is. Whether it comes in the form of reps, war, apologies, or whatever, on Bob,punishment is the currency in which justice is bought and sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1299108493' post='2650014'] Sounds like CSN. [/quote] Yeah man clearly CSN kept fighting, losing more than the amount of tech they are receiving, so that they could get 20k tech and rebuild. You're a smart one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Brendan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1299108268' post='2650007'] Very rarely are reps really justified. IRON and TOP deserved to pay reps last time around. that is one case where I think we all know reps were justified. [/quote] I'd like to see a bit more explanation here. You can't just say "reparations are bad all the time and I laugh at those who take them... except if its from IRON and TOP". [quote name='Vargarth' timestamp='1299109287' post='2650039'] <insertwalloftextcommentabouthowlogicallythispersoniswrongeventhoughitistheiropinion> [/quote] Just because something is your opinion doesn't mean you don't need to defend it with rational arguments. To do otherwise is to admit to being irrational. The idea that everyone's opinion is some kind of sacred thing that cannot be wrong is a gentle lie to avoid hurting the feelings of the weak-minded. [quote name='James I' timestamp='1299109421' post='2650045'] 5. If you take reps, then you are clearly lacking in that most prized of assets: honour. [/quote] Sarcasm, or hypocrisy? Edited March 2, 2011 by Lord Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 We'll impose reps to make people hate us even more than they do now and post lots of discussion threads like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Scipio Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Why do you think TOP and IRON deserve to pay reps? What did they do that was so wrong in bi-polar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1299109424' post='2650046'] On this planet it is. Whether it comes in the form of reps, war, apologies, or whatever, on Bob,punishment is the currency in which justice is bought and sold. [/quote] So is it safe to assume, then, that since justice is by means of punishment, that justice cannot be amicable? Such that, for instance, would it be [i]unjust[/i] to conduct oneself properly during negotiations or in an embassy since it is not a direct form of punishment, or not a punishment that "punishes people for something you would do yourself"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoryproblems Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299109140' post='2650033'] Justice as a whole, hence the question. Just because I wear the CSN tag doesn't necessitate that I am questioning the validity of the post. It was a simple question, of which you all jumped to various conclusions. [/quote] In the OP i think it said that reps are acceptable in some circumstances, but certainly not in all circumstances. At any rate, those alliances who dictate such terms and demand such ridiculous reps, the nature of things is that there will come a time where those they have victimized will have an oppertunity to repay the favor. Hope that such alliances are prepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='James I' timestamp='1299109421' post='2650045'] 5. If you take reps, then you are clearly lacking in that most prized of assets: honour. [/quote] So what you are saying...is any alliance who pay reps are dishonourable? Clearly you remember that MK took reps in noCB.... Edited March 3, 2011 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I don't know that it's ever been written down, but the consensus among Nordreich leadership since our re-foundation has been that we will neither ask for nor pay reparations. I believe the closest we would come to 'demanding reps' would be to insist on 'x' number of tech deals at the going rate of $3mil/100, but that's hardly punitive since it clearly benefits both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1299109758' post='2650058'] So is it safe to assume, then, that since justice is by means of punishment, that justice cannot be amicable? Such that, for instance, would it be [i]unjust[/i] to conduct oneself properly during negotiations or in an embassy since it is not a direct form of punishment, or not a punishment that "punishes people for something you would do yourself"? [/quote] Your equating the word justice with honour. While the two can be connected they are hardly equal in the sense you are trying to create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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