Disease of the elderly threatens thousands

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1298259818' post='2640154']
Your post is so dumb it makes my head hurt.

Of course I'm against him now that he no longer supports what I do. It's called consistency.
[/quote]

That wooshing sound? It was my point sailing clear over your head.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1298265530' post='2640256']
Diplomacy was given a good chance, this isn't even the only conversation regarding the subject, but proof nevertheless that negotiations have taken place, putting you in the lot of people claiming we never disbanded, when we obviously did.
[/quote]
<Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it
<Impero> NANANANANANANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND EVEN IF I COULD I AM TOTALLY DRUNK AGGGGGGGGAIN!

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1298265696' post='2640258']
That wooshing sound? It was my point sailing clear over your head.
[/quote]
Typo, you are not half as intelligent as you wish or 1/4 as much as you make out. Give it a rest.

[WalkerNinja]

Thumbs Up: Welcome back, Doitz!
Thumbs Down: No man-candy in the OP's avatar.

[DogeWilliam]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1298264738' post='2640246']
Careful, there, buddy; Doitzel, myself, Starfox, Rebel Virginia, and Cheyenne had no nations just one day before the formation of Vox Populi. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss those with something to say when something worth talking about happens.
[/quote]

Words perhaps. But certainly not action. As has been stated Vox wasn't the force which took down NPO. Just as Doitzel has no force whatsoever to defend NpO with. Frankly I don't even know why he's in the alliance. What is commendable to defend in NpO anyways?

Edited February 21, 2011 by DogeWilliam

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1298265902' post='2640262']
<Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it
<Impero> NANANANANANANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND EVEN IF I COULD I AM TOTALLY DRUNK AGGGGGGGGAIN!
[/quote]

Excuse me?

I love how the subject of Viridia makes you get way to carried away and make an ass of yourself every time its brought up.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Solaris]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1298265902' post='2640262']
<Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it
<Impero> NANANANANANANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND EVEN IF I COULD I AM TOTALLY DRUNK AGGGGGGGGAIN!
[/quote]
When you can't accept reality, your defences make you redefine it. Poor explanations and denials of guilt and responsibility don't cut it, no matter how used you are to talking yourself out of trouble. We aren't your mother.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1298265530' post='2640256']
Reality disagrees with you. Bolded what you'd want to miss.



Diplomacy was given a good chance, this isn't even the only conversation regarding the subject, but proof nevertheless that negotiations have taken place, putting you in the lot of people claiming we never disbanded, when we obviously did.
[/quote]

Uh. Honestly, I don't give a toss about the attack on the Orders, but you're really spinning things here.

01[20:01] <Impero[VE]> but ill ask anyway: do you have some sort of amazing explaination for your dealings with lennox?
[20:02] <Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it
01[20:02] <Impero[VE]> i have the truth already
01[20:02] <Impero[VE]> in that case, i need to be afk again

I mean, this just smacks of 'we have a CB, we don't give a damn what you have to say'. I mean, that's absolutely fine, but at least be open about it. The rest of those logs were Dajobo desperately trying to get Impero to listen to him, while Impero's clearly not interested and contemptuously dismisses everything Dajobo says:

01[20:21] <Impero[VE]> alright, so your explaination is you were "playing along"
01[20:21] <Impero[VE]> im sure you will understand if i dont believe you

01[20:24] <Impero[VE]> so, youve said your piece and i listened, but honestly "i was just playing along" isent going to exculpate you

01[20:24] <Impero[VE]> if you have nothing besides that theres nothing more to talk about

Seriously? It's quite obvious that Impero's not even listening. He's not entering this conversation in a genuine spirit of reconciliation and negotiation, he's just happy his little trap worked and he has a CB. It was a masterful move really, a well executed plan, and Impero deserves credit for it, but at least don't try and make out like you were genuinely wronged and genuinely attempted diplomacy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1298266585' post='2640285']
Uh. Honestly, I don't give a toss about the attack on the Orders, but you're really spinning things here.

01[20:01] <Impero[VE]> but ill ask anyway: do you have some sort of amazing explaination for your dealings with lennox?
[20:02] <Dajobo|NpO|> nothing amazing but the truth if you want it
01[20:02] <Impero[VE]> i have the truth already
01[20:02] <Impero[VE]> in that case, i need to be afk again

I mean, this just smacks of 'we have a CB, we don't give a damn what you have to say'. I mean, that's absolutely fine, but at least be open about it. The rest of those logs were Dajobo desperately trying to get Impero to listen to him, while Impero's clearly not interested and contemptuously dismisses everything Dajobo says:

01[20:21] <Impero[VE]> alright, so your explaination is you were "playing along"
01[20:21] <Impero[VE]> im sure you will understand if i dont believe you

01[20:24] <Impero[VE]> so, youve said your piece and i listened, but honestly "i was just playing along" isent going to exculpate you

01[20:24] <Impero[VE]> if you have nothing besides that theres nothing more to talk about

Seriously? It's quite obvious that Impero's not even listening. He's not entering this conversation in a genuine spirit of reconciliation and negotiation, he's just happy his little trap worked and he has a CB. It was a masterful move really, a well executed plan, and Impero deserves credit for it, but at least don't try and make out like you were genuinely wronged and genuinely attempted diplomacy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
[/quote]

Actually, there was another conversation with Random. Sol should be editing it into his post any time now.

[Solaris]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1298266585' post='2640285']
..

Seriously? It's quite obvious that Impero's not even listening. He's not entering this conversation in a genuine spirit of reconciliation and negotiation, he's just happy his little trap worked and he has a CB. It was a masterful move really, a well executed plan, and Impero deserves credit for it, but at least don't try and make out like you were genuinely wronged and genuinely attempted diplomacy. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
[/quote]
You're being overly sensitive to the extent of being silly. Viridia isn't desperate to believe all and any ridicilous explanations in order to restore faith into the beloved little aggrieving entity. That we're not supportive towards someone's attempts of weaseling out of responsibility doesn't mean we're monsters, it merely confirms that we aren't their mother.

It's a display of honesty, to let the opposing party know that bull excrement wont cut it. As it didn't.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Solaris

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1298265696' post='2640258']
That wooshing sound? It was my point sailing clear over your head.
[/quote]

After out last encounter I'm giving you one reply per thread, unless you surprise me and happen to make an intelligent counterargument. You blew this time, heck you didn't even attempt a counterargument. Better luck next time though.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1298266827' post='2640291']
Actually, there was another conversation with Random. Sol should be editing it into his post any time now.
[/quote]

Heh. Those logs don't make you look any better. You didn't exactly come in with an open mind when your second statement right after hello was "i spoke with dajobo, he told me everything i need to know" The "diplomacy was given a good chance" line you guys are trying to use is just plain laughable. Just stick with the "you ran a spy ring" story. At least you guys only have to be dishonest once when using that one.

[foxfire99]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1298267542' post='2640308']
After out last encounter I'm giving you one reply per thread, unless you surprise me and happen to make an intelligent counterargument. You blew this time, heck you didn't even attempt a counterargument. Better luck next time though.

[/quote]

You just called him dumb and denied his observation with no evidence. What kind of counter-argument could he give?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1298267542' post='2640308']
After out last encounter I'm giving you one reply per thread, unless you surprise me and happen to make an intelligent counterargument. You blew this time, heck you didn't even attempt a counterargument. Better luck next time though.
[/quote]

Says the man who resorted to calling me stupid right out of the gate? Glass houses my friend, glass houses.

I never went with a counter argument because there was nothing to counter argue, you on the other hand went straight for a personal attack without saying anything of substance. Me thinks somebody is projecting.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1298266827' post='2640291']
Actually, there was another conversation with Random. Sol should be editing it into his post any time now.
[/quote]

I hadn't seen those logs before, but I wasn't convinced that they were a ~genuine attempt at diplomacy~ either really. Let's see....

The query starts out with the following:

01[20:08] <Impero[VE]> i spoke with dajobo, he told me everything i need to know

Translation: "I already talked with Dajobo, therefore this query is not necessary, and we don't need to negotiate further." Now frankly, that's nonsense, because as I already demonstrated you didn't make a genuine attempt to negotiate or listen to Dajobo's side of things. At this point Random says the following in order to demonstrate that the query is indeed necessary:

[20:09] <Random_Gone> It looks like you didn't speak much at all
01[20:09] <Impero[VE]> he dident
[20:10] <Random_Gone> I have the logs dude. You blew him off

He's absolutely correct, and trust me this is not coming from some giant fan of the Orders.

Then a few lines later you say the following:

[OOC] [20:11] <Impero[VE]> though to be honest aside from some sort of bizarre poltergist taking over his computer, i cant think of a way to explain it away [/OOC]

It's rather contemptuous, dismissive and disinterested, and demonstrates that you're not attempting to negotiate. [OOC] Clearly a poltergeist has not taken over his computer. [/OOC] It's just another attempt to fob Random off.

Then there's this:

01[20:28] <Impero[VE]> listen, this isent the owf
01[20:28] <Impero[VE]> i wasent born yesterday
[20:28] <Random_Gone> No, this is you getting a war you wanted quite badly, apparently
[20:29] <Random_Gone> Again, under false pretenses

Really? That's the way VE negotiates? Hostility, contempt and disinterest?

[OOC] [20:30] <Impero[VE]> barring an explaination such as "that was my cousin on my computer!" or something, i really, really dont know what more there is to say [/OOC]

This is a bit like the poltergeist thing.

Then Random says this:

[20:30] <Random_Gone> I am not going to waste my life speaking to you when it's clear you are not capable of understanding what a simple issue this is

Random is a smart guy and he knows at this point that if he doesn't negotiate with you then Polaris is going to get rolled, but yet at this point he's given up because he doesn't think there's any point in negotiating because you're not interested. That's a pretty clear indication that you haven't attempted to talk this through calmly and sensibly.

Really, I don't care. Polaris deserved to get rolled after Grub's behaviour in BiPolar and their failure to admit any wrongdoing. I'm glad to see them rolled actually. I genuinely applaud you for getting a CB. But just man up and admit what you've done. Don't try and play the innocent bystander at the same time.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1298267051' post='2640298']
You're being overly sensitive to the extent of being silly. Viridia isn't desperate to believe all and any ridicilous explanations in order to restore faith into the beloved little aggrieving entity. That we're not supportive towards someone's attempts of weaseling out of responsibility doesn't mean we're monsters, it merely confirms that we aren't their mother.

It's a display of honesty, to let the opposing party know that bull excrement wont cut it. As it didn't.
[/quote]

So basically, "we decided before we ever spoke to Polar leadership that their side of the story was a crock of !@#$, and because it's a crock of !@#$ we're not interested in hearing what they have to say". Yeah that's negotiation!

[Solaris]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1298267542' post='2640308']

Heh. Those logs don't make you look any better. You didn't exactly come in with an open mind when your second statement right after hello was "i spoke with dajobo, he told me everything i need to know" The "diplomacy was given a good chance" line you guys are trying to use is just plain laughable. Just stick with the "you ran a spy ring" story. At least you guys only have to be dishonest once when using that one.
[/quote]
We don't need to be dishonest. If your definition of a good chance differs from mine, I can respect that, but now you're just talking weird.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1298268211' post='2640321']
So basically, "we decided before we ever spoke to Polar leadership that their side of the story was a crock of !@#$, and because it's a crock of !@#$ we're not interested in hearing what they have to say". Yeah that's negotiation!
[/quote]
You're pulling assumptions out of thin air, and I'm not going to waste time on burning strawmen.

You're not the all-knowing intrepeter of the human mind, and your attempts at portraying yourself as such, with all the 'translations' and contemplations on motivation, makes you only look as if you had a stronger image on your ability, than reality would assert.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Solaris

[Penguin]

So from the responses here, I'm to understand that Impero will swear he would have come to us to discuss the logs before the attack had we not come to him first when we found out VE told their allies they were rolling at update? Honestly, the impression I got was that you thought the logs were so cut and dry that initiating diplomacy was unnecessary.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1298268111' post='2640319']

Really, I don't care. Polaris deserved to get rolled after Grub's behaviour in BiPolar and their failure to admit any wrongdoing. I'm glad to see them rolled actually. I genuinely applaud you for getting a CB. But just man up and admit what you've done. Don't try and play the innocent bystander at the same time.
[/quote]

I'm actually not sure what we're arguing about. My point was we had a CB, and we took traditional steps both diplomatically and militarily thereafter. Your point is we had a CB, and we took traditional steps, but not much more then the minimum on the diplomatic end of things. That's fine, I don't disagree. I'm not going to sit there and act like I'm friends with someone who stands in juxtaposition to myself and my allies simply in the interest of avoiding war. The minimum was opportunity to explain and they got that, any more would be benevolence of the kind they did not deserve. Furthermore, the whole little rumor going around that we just plain hit them after barely talking is also false, as you can see from the mildly extensive logs above.

Like I said before, I'm not a huge fan of kumbaya.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Solaris]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1298268368' post='2640327']
So from the responses here, I'm to understand that Impero will swear he would have come to us to discuss the logs before the attack had we not come to him first when we found out VE told their allies they were rolling at update? Honestly, the impression I got was that you thought the logs were so cut and dry that initiating diplomacy was unnecessary.
[/quote]
Your skills with theoretical Ichthyology serve you well, but there hasn't been any swearing regarding potentialities here, nor suggestions of such.

[Penguin]

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1298268723' post='2640333']
Your skills with theoretical Ichthyology serve you well, but there hasn't been any swearing regarding potentialities here, nor suggestions of such.
[/quote]
Maybe I wasn't clear enough; I was looking for one.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Penguin

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]Are we going to debate this again?
Those in Polar will see what they want, and those in VE will see what they want. There is no such thing as a winning argument because you will ultimately fail to convince anyone on the other side. The CB wasn't great, or flawless, but it was good enough. Good enough is all that counts.[/color]

[Solaris]

[quote name='Penguin' timestamp='1298268779' post='2640334']
Maybe I wasn't clear enough; I was looking for one.
[/quote]
No fish.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]tripplecolor]

Edited February 21, 2011 by DictatatorDan

[Electron Sponge]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1298268654' post='2640332']
I'm actually not sure what we're arguing about.[/quote]
Reading comprehension evidently isn't your strong suit.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]Doublecolor]

Edited February 21, 2011 by DictatatorDan

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1298267863' post='2640313']
You just called him dumb and denied his observation with no evidence. What kind of counter-argument could he give?
[/quote]

I affirmed his observation actually. I mean, darn right I disagree with Bob Jonova after he abandoned his standards. If I hadn't then my commitment to my positions would have been suspect.

As for Typo's possible counterarguments? I agree with you completely in that I left none available to him.

[quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1298268284' post='2640324']
We don't need to be dishonest. If your definition of a good chance differs from mine, I can respect that, but now you're just talking weird.
[/quote]

Apparently it is. My definition is actually going in to those two conversations with something resembling an open mind which Impero clearly did not do as both Kalasin and myself demonstrated.