A Dark Templar Announcement

[Fronz]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1297996883' post='2637180']
why on GOD's green earth would you then continue talks with him?
[/quote]

heh, I couldn't resist. Xiphosis runs the world, and CSN, its a known fact, like gravity or the divine powers of admin.

[hizzy]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1297996883' post='2637180']
So here is what I don't get. I have only been halfheartedly following this thread.

1.) Goose leaves talks. okay so you would think that common sense says you leave because you already know that xilph isn't in CSN let alone in their gov. So the question then becomes why on gods green earth would you then continue talks with him?

2.) xilph puts the bug in CSN's ear about the reps okay fine. What possible outcome do you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging your talks out to the court of public appeals where in all fact and manner these people have absolutely nothing to do with any talks on going or not.

Now don't take me wrong I honestly agree somewhat in that this is only a fringe war and reps should not be asked for. HOWEVER, and I can not stress that enough. I don't represent CSN or Legacy GOV, and therefore, it is only my opinion so don't go running off saying to CSN see even your allies don't agree with you cause we all know it is crap.
[/quote]

shedding light on an injustice is never a bad move. god knows if they're retarded enough to ask for these reps in the first place, then they're retarded enough to actually start believing they're right lest a multitude of people point out otherwise. we all know it was public opinion that brought down the rule of Pacifica, and it will be public opinion that will bring the same guns to CSNs door soon enough.

[hizzy]

[quote name='Fronz' timestamp='1297997128' post='2637183']
heh, I couldn't resist. Xiphosis runs the world, and CSN, its a known fact, like gravity or the divine powers of admin.
[/quote]

of course Xiph doesn't run CSN. He only provides the occasional suggestion and you decide it's a genuinely good idea, as this recent one has clearly shown, right?

sooner or later he'll come around and suggest that you guys are probably taking a little too much heat and you'll agree and change your mind. (jk, he's stubborn as a mule, and about as smart as one, he'd never admit to being wrong but at least in this case it's not his alliance making new enemies).

[zzzptm]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1297997862' post='2637196']
shedding light on an injustice is never a bad move. god knows if they're retarded enough to ask for these reps in the first place, then they're retarded enough to actually start believing they're right lest a multitude of people point out otherwise. we all know it was public opinion that brought down the rule of Pacifica, and it will be public opinion that will bring the same guns to CSNs door soon enough.
[/quote]

Knock, knock, CSN.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='Fronz' timestamp='1297997128' post='2637183']
heh, I couldn't resist. Xiphosis runs the world, and CSN, its a known fact, like gravity or the divine powers of admin.
[/quote]
Gravity is a tad more than a known fact, it's the law. Xiphosis might run your poor excuse for an alliance, but he/she/it (see also: [b]She-It[/b]) doesn't run the world. Right now, I wouldn't give a bucket of piss for the future of your alliance.

[juanveldez]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1297997862' post='2637196']
shedding light on an injustice is never a bad move. god knows if they're retarded enough to ask for these reps in the first place, then they're retarded enough to actually start believing they're right lest a multitude of people point out otherwise. we all know it was public opinion that brought down the rule of Pacifica, and it will be public opinion that will bring the same guns to CSNs door soon enough.
[/quote]

I can agree with that Hizzy. As far as shedding light on an injustice is good, and I know were the shoe on the other foot I would be doing much the same. But, from what I have gathered DT feels that by doing this alone will change the situation. As we all know that bring down the rule of Pacifica was a task that took many many months and much give and take. And IMO from both sides it has just been take and take. And before things get all bent out of shape allow me to explain.

DT of course did not like the reps demands, understandable. They then go to CSN say "hey we don't like em, here is what we offer instead." CSN didn't like it for what ever reason. so then DT says its white peace or nothing and so now here we are at the impasse. where there is no give and no take just take and take.

So then the question becomes how do we push through this impasse?

Edited February 18, 2011 by juanveldez

[zzzptm]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1297999343' post='2637224']
I can agree with that Hizzy. As far as shedding light on an injustice is good, and I know were the shoe on the other foot I would be doing much the same. But, from what I have gathered DT feels that by doing this alone will change the situation. As we all know that bring down the rule of Pacifica was a task that took many many months and much give and take. And IMO from both sides it has just been take and take. And before things get all bent out of shape allow me to explain.

DT of course did not like the reps demands, understandable. They then go to CSN say "hey we don't like em, here is what we offer instead." CSN didn't like it for what ever reason. so then DT says its white peace or nothing and so now here we are at the impasse. where there is no give and no take just take and take.

So then the question becomes how do we push through this impasse?
[/quote]
CSN mans up and drops the demand for reparations. When they play by the rules they're expecting everyone else to play by, then maybe we'll have some grounds for resolving things.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1297999343' post='2637224']
So then the question becomes how do we push through this impasse?
[/quote]
There is no 'impasse' - other than the one CSN wishes to impose. We're not begging peace. We're asking for an end to hostilities. We're not offering to surrender. We're still fighting, and will continue to do so.

We simply feel, as the battlefield has changed, that we are now fighting for no reason.

The Dark Templar never has, and would never desire, to fight for no reason. Our objectives have been met, and we wish to go home and polish our swords.

[juanveldez]

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298000171' post='2637239']
There is no 'impasse' - other than the one CSN wishes to impose. We're not begging peace. We're asking for an end to hostilities. We're not offering to surrender. We're still fighting, and will continue to do so.

We simply feel, as the battlefield has changed, that we are now fighting for no reason.

The Dark Templar never has, and would never desire, to fight for no reason. Our objectives have been met, and we wish to go home and polish our swords.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure that the reason you entered is just as valid now as it was then. Your ally is still in a war with CSN and Legacy, but I digress, that leave my other two questions realitivly unanswered.

Why enter into talks with someone whom you know isn't even part of the alliance that you are dealing with? And, what is it that you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging all this out onto OWF?

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1297988780' post='2637069']
The better built alliance will have more nukes. It's not members, it's quality of said members in many cases.[/quote]

well you obviously read my scenario with GATO/LoSS vs Umbrella, so you should understand i know this already.


[quote]In your 3 to 1 advantage, GATO alone should be suffcient. But if you think that's the only case where a smaller alliance will tear a bigger one apart....yah.[/quote]

again, it was a scenario. an example. a way of ensuring my point was clear. just because i did not post hundreds of other examples, does not mean i think there is only the scenario i stated.

[quote]The operative word in the above is IF. In this case, I would guess (not having checked officially) that DT had a better/bigger upper tier based on their Avg nations strength.
[/quote]

hence why i used the word IF. go figure, i wanted to make sure that it was understood that the dogpiling alliance will not [i]always[/i] take more damage as TypoNinja stated or you implied, and thus used IF to state that there were 2 possibilities at least. a third possibility would be an equal number of upper and mid tier with only the lower tier being larger on one side or the other.

not entirely sure what this whole post was about really since you seem to be agreeing with my post but appear to be acting as if you are somehow correcting me on something. not sure what since you basically just rewrote what i stated in a more concise way.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1298000919' post='2637250']
I am pretty sure that the reason you entered is just as valid now as it was then. Your ally is still in a war with CSN and Legacy, but I digress, that leave my other two questions realitivly unanswered.

Why enter into talks with someone whom you know isn't even part of the alliance that you are dealing with? And, what is it that you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging all this out onto OWF?
[/quote]
What? You digress? I'm not sure that you and I are playing the same game.

This is Cybernations. Check your browser, brah.

[juanveldez]

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298001132' post='2637258']
What? You digress? I'm not sure that you and I are playing the same game.

This is Cybernations. Check your browser, brah.
[/quote]

Oh it is exactly where it is supposed to be. But seeing as how you can't even answer 2 simple questions....

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1298001765' post='2637266']
Oh it is exactly where it is supposed to be. But seeing as how you can't even answer 2 simple questions....
[/quote]

you do realize that CSN stated Xiph was allowed to speak on their behalf right? i would believe that is why our gov would continue to speak with Xiph.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1298001765' post='2637266']
Oh it is exactly where it is supposed to be. But seeing as how you can't even answer 2 simple questions....
[/quote]
As silly and incomprehensible as your '2 simple questions' are, I'll give it the ol' college try:

[quote]Why enter into talks with someone whom you know isn't even part of the alliance that you are dealing with?[/quote]
Ummm...we are dealing with CSN and Legacy. I see by your squirely ignorance that you didn't read the OP. So, go back, read that, and report back to me.

[quote]And, what is it that you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging all this out onto OWF?[/quote]
Not really concerned so much with 'accomplishing' anything, this is more about 'shedding light.' I'm sorry, it seems like you referred to this forum as the OWF.

Okay. I tried. I like you, juanveldez.

[juanveldez]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1298002478' post='2637273']
you do realize that CSN stated Xiph was allowed to speak on their behalf right? i would believe that is why our gov would continue to speak with Xiph.
[/quote]


No I didn't. Like I said I only halfheartedly followed all this.

Edited February 18, 2011 by juanveldez

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1297996340' post='2637172']
Text is a poor vehicle for sarcasm.
[/quote]

Yes, yes it is.

[juanveldez]

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298002586' post='2637278']
As silly and incomprehensible as your '2 simple questions' are, I'll give it the ol' college try:


Ummm...we are dealing with CSN and Legacy. I see by your squirely ignorance that you didn't read the OP. So, go back, read that, and report back to me.

[/quote]

Actually I did read the op, didn't bother with the logs though, I find log dumps to be boring and a tiresome read as it is. Though they do have their place as everybody is going to say "where are the logs" and of course you have those that say the logs are fake. so I don't even bother with logs.

That being said I still find myself not agreeing 100 percent with either side of the argument as I said in my op. Because I decided that I got bored in PM came out fought for 16 days out of PM decided that was boring as LoSS only turtled the minute you hit them with a nuke and the whole while their allies never countered me nor did they. So really all I see is a bunch of chest thumping and brow beating, from both sides of the table. So when you say that we are at an impasse only because CSN has made it so I would have to disagree, and say that both parties are responsible, as this thread only keeps that cycle going.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1298003596' post='2637294']
Actually I did read the op, didn't bother with the logs though, I find log dumps to be boring and a tiresome read as it is. Though they do have their place as everybody is going to say "where are the logs" and of course you have those that say the logs are fake. so I don't even bother with logs.

That being said I still find myself not agreeing 100 percent with either side of the argument as I said in my op. Because I decided that I got bored in PM came out fought for 16 days out of PM decided that was boring as LoSS only turtled the minute you hit them with a nuke and the whole while their allies never countered me nor did they. So really all I see is a bunch of chest thumping and brow beating, from both sides of the table. So when you say that we are at an impasse only because CSN has made it so I would have to disagree, and say that both parties are responsible, as this thread only keeps that cycle going.
[/quote]
Okay, so you're bored. I'm personally very sorry to hear that - there is much joy to be gained, juanveldez! Chin up! Always look on the bright side...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ&feature=related

Edited February 18, 2011 by mmansfield68

[Foose Babganoosh]

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298004228' post='2637305']
Okay, so you're bored. I'm personally very sorry to hear that - there is much joy to be gained, juanveldez! Chin up! Always look on the bright side...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ&feature=related
[/quote]

I have that song on my Ipod i also got the lumberjack song too LOL

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='Foose Babganoosh' timestamp='1298005178' post='2637323']
I have that song on my Ipod i also got the lumberjack song too LOL
[/quote]
Love it, man - classic! It has an uncanny knack for putting things in proper perspective.

[Foose Babganoosh]

yes it does, it describes life so easily

[twodivine]

[quote name='juanveldez' timestamp='1297999343' post='2637224']
I can agree with that Hizzy. As far as shedding light on an injustice is good, and I know were the shoe on the other foot I would be doing much the same. But, from what I have gathered DT feels that by doing this alone will change the situation. As we all know that bring down the rule of Pacifica was a task that took many many months and much give and take. And IMO from both sides it has just been take and take. And before things get all bent out of shape allow me to explain.

DT of course did not like the reps demands, understandable. They then go to CSN say "hey we don't like em, here is what we offer instead." CSN didn't like it for what ever reason. so then DT says its white peace or nothing and so now here we are at the impasse. where there is no give and no take just take and take.

So then the question becomes how do we push through this impasse?
[/quote]

That's the crazy thing there Jaunveldez, we've never said White Peace or nothing. Negotiations are just that trying to find something exceptable for both sides and they can't with out leaving the channel. If they want to find an end then it takes some work and effort. I'd welcome CSN to try and work on establishing peace.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Myworld

[Monster]

If that's the case, then both sides should try to reopen talks and find an agreeable solution. It looked like it was white peace or nothing based on the posts here.

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1298008529' post='2637390']
If that's the case, then both sides should try to reopen talks and find an agreeable solution. It looked like it was white peace or nothing based on the posts here.
[/quote]
Well, for our part - we were more than happy with the idea of Myworld running down the street buck-naked withan "I love CSN" poster, as opposed to any tech deal, to establish a lasting peace. But no....

[mmansfield68]

He refused, so here we are...