The GM's Court

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309446163' post='2745037']
Instead of saying it can't be done, why not tell us the specifics of the elevator, like the diameter and such things. I'm sure that if we know those, we can find a way.
[/quote]
I'd rather keep it standing.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1309448820' post='2745067']
I'd rather keep it standing.
[/quote]
Now that's not fair, is it? Just because you want something to continue, you refuse to give information which should be given based on what a real RPer should disclose? What if someone used spy rolls to look for the weak spots? Will you continue to refuse?

Either back up your claims with facts, or just forget about your shiny space elevator.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Kankou

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309448970' post='2745072']
Now that's not fair, is it? Just because you want something to continue, you refuse to give information which should be given based on what a real RPer should disclose? What if someone used spy rolls to look for the weak spots? Will you continue to refuse?

Either back up your claims with facts, or just forget about your shiny space elevator.
[/quote]
Why are you so adamant on destroying what's practically another wonder of the world? Would you bomb the pyramids or the chinese wall?

[Sargun II]

You can't destroy the space elevator. You can take over the land and dismantle it, but destroying it would require the pieces to fly literally around the globe and violate the whole 'you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war' clause that we have.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Sargun

[Kankou]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1309449654' post='2745076']
Why are you so adamant on destroying what's practically another wonder of the world? Would you bomb the pyramids or the chinese wall?
[/quote]
If I had a reason to, yes (never mind that the coalition against me is doing the same thing, lol). But in this case, I'm more worried about "It can't be destroyed because I don't want it to be, and I'm not going to post stats to show how it is invincible" view that seems to be what core of what you're arguing. If you can bring up sufficient evidence that the space elevator is practically indestructible, I would accept it and go about my merry way.


Also, I think we should break down that "you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war" cause. Like, if a 20 megaton nuke is dropped on say , Trieste, every nation within the blast and fallout range would be affected no matter how neutral they are. Fallout spreading to the other side of the landmass is one thing (too unpredictable), but to say that we should exempt all foreseeable damages (heat, wind, fallout) simply because that country is neutral is pure nonsense.

[Sargun II]

Well that sucks for you, because it's been like that forever. If we allowed that to happen, all life on earth would be dead ten times over from the amount of radiation and nukes fired everywhere.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1309445852' post='2745030']
Except those are nylon, which is a HUGE molecule, and I doubt it's actually monofilament in the sense I mean it.
>>made from a single fiber of plastic.
Yeah. Plastic fibers are huge. Plastic molecules are huge.
In the case of the elevator's cables, it's carbon-based, and each of these strings is mere atoms or molecules thick. There's just such a whole goddamned lot that their combined strength keeps the elevator working.
If something's atoms thick and very strong, it's by default incredibly sharp. Make a knife that's so sharp that the cutting edge is a molecule thick and you can cut through iron like butter.

Trust me, I know more science than you, HHYAD. You can't kill the elevator that easily. Even with a nuke, you'd have to hit specific parts to actually wreck it, instead of just inconveniencing the owner and forcing him to replace parts of the cable.
[/quote]
One molecule thick.

Fiber that is weaker than other types of fiber that would've snapped from being stretched from the elevator down to the ground while being too thin.

Unless if you used something that is strong enough to not break at at a length of approximately 300 kilometers while being a molecule thick, I find that hard to believe.


The nuke doesn't have to hit the cables, it just has to hit the main structure and leave a gaping hole in it, severely crippling its ability to hold up the weight of the rest of the elevator.
[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1309449694' post='2745077']
You can't destroy the space elevator. You can take over the land and dismantle it, but destroying it would require the pieces to fly literally around the globe and violate the whole 'you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war' clause that we have.
[/quote]
They don't have to RP the pieces flying everywhere, but the elevator can still be knocked down.

Edited June 30, 2011 by HHAYD

[Kankou]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1309450436' post='2745082']
Well that sucks for you, because it's been like that forever. If we allowed that to happen, all life on earth would be dead ten times over from the amount of radiation and nukes fired everywhere.
[/quote]
You seem to have taken what I said to the extreme: I'm focused on the theater damages, not world-wide consequences. A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.

[king of cochin]

Do earthquakes, meteor strikes and tsunamis cause indiscriminate destruction? Yes. Do they happen in reality? Yes. But we do not RP them in CNRP. CNRP is a community project of many Roleplayers who create their own minicosms of creativity. Just because it tickles one person's fancy we must not inconvenience everyone else.

As regarding Space Elevator, it has a special inviolable status in CNRP, a status that has succeeded from its more historical times. It is as someone said a global common wonder whose present custodian is Rebel Army owing to its massive stats and geography. Destruction of Space Elevator is a destruction of a common community wonder and as such any threats to its existence could be liable to be wiped.

People have all the rights to be rebellious, some times it is quite warranted too. But there is a difference between being a rebel and being a vandal, the musings by some here about destruction of Space Elevator just because it exists seems nothing more than vandalism and would as such be sternly curbed.

Thus spake the GM.

Cochin - 30:06

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309451138' post='2745091']You seem to have taken what I said to the extreme: I'm focused on the theater damages, not world-wide consequences. A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.
[/quote]We did that once, it didn’t work.
There was once a global nuclear war and it turned out pretty much everyone was within what you have designated [i]theater damages[/i].
Our community consensus immediately changed CNRP’s rules concerning nuclear side-effects because nobody wanted a Fallout RPG.

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1309451630' post='2745101']Do earthquakes, meteor strikes and tsunamis cause indiscriminate destruction? Yes. Do they happen in reality? Yes. But we do not RP them in CNRP. CNRP is a community project of many Roleplayers who create their own minicosms of creativity. Just because it tickles one person's fancy we must not inconvenience everyone else.

As regarding Space Elevator, it has a special inviolable status in CNRP, a status that has succeeded from its more historical times. It is as someone said a global common wonder whose present custodian is Rebel Army owing to its massive stats and geography. Destruction of Space Elevator is a destruction of a common community wonder and as such any threats to its existence could be liable to be wiped.

People have all the rights to be rebellious, some times it is quite warranted too. But there is a difference between being a rebel and being a vandal, the musings by some here about destruction of Space Elevator just because it exists seems nothing more than vandalism and would as such be sternly curbed.

Thus spake the GM.

Cochin - 30:06[/quote]Nothing else in CNRP is indestructible, that’s ridiculous.
The Space Elevator ought to be destroyable, like everything else in CNRP, but only in a sufficiently role-played thread of equal length as that structure's creation.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1309450615' post='2745085']
One molecule thick.

Fiber that is weaker than other types of fiber that would've snapped from being stretched from the elevator down to the ground while being too thin.

Unless if you used something that is strong enough to not break at at a length of approximately 300 kilometers while being a molecule thick, I find that hard to believe.


The nuke doesn't have to hit the cables, it just has to hit the main structure and leave a gaping hole in it, severely crippling its ability to hold up the weight of the rest of the elevator.

They don't have to RP the pieces flying everywhere, but the elevator can still be knocked down.
[/quote]
Carbon nanotubes, know them, love them. They're amazing. Especially in great numbers.
And you clearly don't seem to know how the Elevator actually works like. It doesn't hold anything up. It doesn't stand on the ground.
Take a rope. Attach a stone at one end, and another around the middle. Take the end without the stone. Now start spinning as fast as you can. The rope will, if you did it right, straighten pretty quickly, held where it is by your hands and straightened by the weight at the end.
That's how the elevator works, if very, very simplified. Removing the cable at the base won't actually make it move away from Earth due to gravity.
The main need for the cable? Moving the cabin up and down.
Remove the cable, and the orbital station stays where it is, because it's in GEO.

The cable can be replaced with ease.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Generalissimo' timestamp='1309452203' post='2745110']
Nothing else in CNRP is indestructible, that’s ridiculous.
The Space Elevator ought to be destroyable, like everything else in CNRP, but only in a sufficiently role-played thread of equal length as that structure's creation.
[/quote]

Destruction of Space Elevator has to be approved by the community as a whole and I am thinking something near unanimous is required before any destruction could be rp'd out. And I stress on near unanimity to prevent a flood of new rpers coming on to the scene just to destroy the elevator through a numbers game.

[Centurius]

[quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1309451630' post='2745101']
Do earthquakes, meteor strikes and tsunamis cause indiscriminate destruction? Yes. Do they happen in reality? Yes. But we do not RP them in CNRP. CNRP is a community project of many Roleplayers who create their own minicosms of creativity. Just because it tickles one person's fancy we must not inconvenience everyone else.

As regarding Space Elevator, it has a special inviolable status in CNRP, a status that has succeeded from its more historical times. It is as someone said a global common wonder whose present custodian is Rebel Army owing to its massive stats and geography. Destruction of Space Elevator is a destruction of a common community wonder and as such any threats to its existence could be liable to be wiped.

People have all the rights to be rebellious, some times it is quite warranted too. But there is a difference between being a rebel and being a vandal, the musings by some here about destruction of Space Elevator just because it exists seems nothing more than vandalism and would as such be sternly curbed.

Thus spake the GM.

Cochin - 30:06
[/quote]

And so it was confirmed by the god.

Centurius - 6:66

[Triyun]

It is my opinion, that if we allowed people to be vandals as Cochin aptly put it, then we would be in our right as a community of nations to take pre-emptive military action against those regimes which were clearly rogue to stop them from acquiring or developing weapons of mass destruction and or impose regime change on those nations. This would lead to bawing about OOC and curbing their right to RP, but it would be the most rational course of action from an IC perspective (world leaders are not responsible if they purposefully allow their citizen's quality of life to be harmed to tickle the fancy of some other world leader's insanity.) Therefore I strongly support Cochin and Centurius's ruling as a sensible alternative to the otherwise obvious and necessary IC remedy of regular preventative war and kinetic actions.

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1309454457' post='2745134']It is my opinion, that if we allowed people to be vandals as Cochin aptly put it, then we would be in our right as a community of nations to take pre-emptive military action against those regimes which were clearly rogue to stop them from acquiring or developing weapons of mass destruction and or impose regime change on those nations. This would lead to bawing about OOC and curbing their right to RP, but it would be the most rational course of action from an IC perspective (world leaders are not responsible if they purposefully allow their citizen's quality of life to be harmed to tickle the fancy of some other world leader's insanity.) Therefore I strongly support Cochin and Centurius's ruling as a sensible alternative to the otherwise obvious and necessary IC remedy of regular preventative war and kinetic actions.[/quote]How would you know, in advance, if a regime is rouge?
A player isn't necessarily their CNRP country. . . re-roll enough without the same characters in different regions and how could anyone (In-Game) tell the difference?

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Generalissimo' timestamp='1309454747' post='2745137']
How would you know, in advance, if a regime is rouge?
A player isn't necessarily their CNRP country. . . re-roll enough without the same characters in different regions and how could anyone (In-Game) tell the difference?
[/quote]

We don't need to know if a regime is rouge, only if they're rogue.

[Kankou]

Leaving aside the Wonder of the World Problem....


I believe we should break down that "you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war" cause. Like, if a 20 megaton nuke is dropped on say , Trieste, every nation within the blast and fallout range would be affected no matter how neutral they are. Fallout spreading to the other side of the landmass is one thing (too unpredictable), but to say that we should exempt all foreseeable damages (heat, wind, fallout) simply because that country is neutral is pure nonsense.

A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.

[Axolotlia]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309450173' post='2745081']
Also, I think we should break down that "you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war" cause. Like, if a 20 megaton nuke is dropped on say , Trieste, every nation within the blast and fallout range would be affected no matter how neutral they are. Fallout spreading to the other side of the landmass is one thing (too unpredictable), but to say that we should exempt all foreseeable damages (heat, wind, fallout) simply because that country is neutral is pure nonsense.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309451138' post='2745091']
A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.
[/quote]



[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309455201' post='2745143']
I believe we should break down that "you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war" cause. Like, if a 20 megaton nuke is dropped on say , Trieste, every nation within the blast and fallout range would be affected no matter how neutral they are. Fallout spreading to the other side of the landmass is one thing (too unpredictable), but to say that we should exempt all foreseeable damages (heat, wind, fallout) simply because that country is neutral is pure nonsense.

A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.
[/quote]


You literally repeated yourself. Do you expect a different reaction or response this time?

Edited June 30, 2011 by Axolotlia

[Kankou]

[quote name='Axolotlia' timestamp='1309455656' post='2745154']
You literally repeated yourself. Do you expect a different reaction or response this time?
[/quote]
Too lazy to write up a new example for an issue that isn't directly related to the elevator issue.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309456194' post='2745160']
Too lazy to write up a new example for an issue that isn't directly related to the elevator issue.
[/quote]

It's not really an issue when the community doesn't have an issue with it.

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1309455201' post='2745143']
Leaving aside the Wonder of the World Problem....


I believe we should break down that "you can't force someone to RP something they don't want to other than war" cause. Like, if a 20 megaton nuke is dropped on say , Trieste, every nation within the blast and fallout range would be affected no matter how neutral they are. Fallout spreading to the other side of the landmass is one thing (too unpredictable), but to say that we should exempt all foreseeable damages (heat, wind, fallout) simply because that country is neutral is pure nonsense.

A 20 megaton nuke falling on the USI would definitely affect Ireland and UK: To just ignore that would be stupidity. Now if we're going to talk about the effects on Germany, then that's something which would fall under the current cause, since it is not a definite and foreseeable collateral damage.
[/quote]

I, of course, completely support that. If someone demands on dropping a nuke, there should be consequences. Nukes shouldn't be thrown around like toys (oh how much of a hypocrite I am.) They're very damaging, annoying weapons that should ICly be used in moderation. How ridiculous it is that countries can lolnuke areas like Maine and no one but the Mainites/Mainish (what do you call them?) people are affected. It's so ridiculous and unfair.

Nuclear bombs are banned from use IRL for a reason.. We CANNOT just ignore all the fallout and such. If the world believes in going into a "coalition" and launching a hundred nukes at someone, so be it, but there WILL be consequences for such stupid behavior.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1309456796' post='2745167']
I, of course, completely support that. If someone demands on dropping a nuke, there should be consequences. Nukes shouldn't be thrown around like toys (oh how much of a hypocrite I am.) They're very damaging, annoying weapons that should ICly be used in moderation. How ridiculous it is that countries can lolnuke areas like Maine and no one but the Mainites/Mainish (what do you call them?) people are affected. It's so ridiculous and unfair.

Nuclear bombs are banned from use IRL for a reason.. We CANNOT just ignore all the fallout and such. If the world believes in going into a "coalition" and launching a hundred nukes at someone, so be it, but there WILL be consequences for such stupid behavior.
[/quote]

They're not banned from use IRL. Nations in real life just don't use them at all, and work towards nonproliferation of nuclear arms.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Voodoo Nova

[Fizzydog]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1309457209' post='2745173']
They're not banned from use IRL.
[/quote]
Well they're certainly not tolerated.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Fizzydog' timestamp='1309456796' post='2745167']
I, of course, completely support that. If someone demands on dropping a nuke, there should be consequences. Nukes shouldn't be thrown around like toys (oh how much of a hypocrite I am.) They're very damaging, annoying weapons that should ICly be used in moderation. How ridiculous it is that countries can lolnuke areas like Maine and no one but the Mainites/Mainish (what do you call them?) people are affected. It's so ridiculous and unfair.

Nuclear bombs are banned from use IRL for a reason.. We CANNOT just ignore all the fallout and such. If the world believes in going into a "coalition" and launching a hundred nukes at someone, so be it, but there WILL be consequences for such stupid behavior.
[/quote]

Thing is they really aren't, there are several nuclear powers who signed it but never were ratified.

Regardless the ruling that nukes only affect nations hit by them has been made during a previous mass nuking that would have brought the world to a nuclear world. Recognizing one of the fundamental freedoms it was then ruled that nations who didn't participate should not face the consequences, this has not changed and such I see no reason to change the previous ruling.