FAN Announcement

[Watson895]

Indeed this is no attempt to destroy MFO, or really do much more than singe it, I'd expect. (Well except that one guy with a 600K warchest, but that's own fault)

We are simply carrying out a measured police action to reiterate to the community FAN's policy on defending itself. That an 1100+ day old nation did this is evidence of one of two things.

A) He thought there would be no response.
B) This is part of a larger plan to prod us and gauge our response.

Both cases demand the same response, and that is what they have earned.

[He Who Has No Name]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1294987975' post='2574846']
I was gonna make a quip about you being brainwashed into believing some revised version of history but that would imply the presence of a central nervous system.
[/quote]

I'd suggest you double check exactly who WROTE most of that history...

Edited January 14, 2011 by He Who Has No Name

[Andy P]

[quote name='Derwood1' timestamp='1294985892' post='2574794']
That spy attack was nearly 24 hours before the retaliation, why didn't MFO contact FAN?
[/quote]
MFO didn't even know about it until this DoW came about...

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988178' post='2574851']
MFO didn't even know about it until this DoW came about...
[/quote]

Ignorance is not a viable defence.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988178' post='2574851']
MFO didn't even know about it until this DoW came about...
[/quote]
i presume youll be joining MFO for this war?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988178' post='2574851']
MFO didn't even know about it until this DoW came about...
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]MFO should do a better job keeping tabs on its members. There are only thirteen of them. It can't be that much of a task, can it?[/color]

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1294987582' post='2574837']
I see unimpeachable evidence that one nation carried out a spy attack. I have seen nothing to even suggest that MFO endorsed or encouraged it, however.

It's not all that hard to arrange for a single nation to commit an act of war under the flag of any alliance against any other alliance. It is the custom to respond to rogue attacks with a *narrow* military response - NOT a blitz on the entire originating alliance, and to allow diplomacy a chance to work, for a reason. The alternative is that every alliance can find itself at war at any moment, with no warning, because of a single rogue attack (whether the work of foreign agents or not) that they did nothing to encourage and could not possibly have stopped.

I've always been fond of FAN, and the "Guns for Tots" program is truly praiseworthy. But blitzing an entire alliance over a rogue attack without even giving them a chance to deal with it? That is a precedent in no ones interest.
[/quote]

We gave diplomacy a chance to work. We waited. We put out a table with finger sandwiches on it, hoping for a visit. We brushed the hunting dog hair off our suit jackets to look more presentable. We waited. We looked outside, up and down thew street, wondering if they couldn't find out mobile home, no callers, we waited. We looked to see if anyone registered on our forums, possibly couldn't get a mask,. Nope. we waited. Then we realized nobody was coming.

We understand rogues. Stuff happens right? We won't sweat it. But that assumes you care that one of your nations attacked us. We got no indication that anyone over there cared. We did all we could reasonably be asked to do. We waited and considered what was presented to us. The silence was deafening. But the screams of our injured and now weaponless children was not. We had to act, as men we had to act.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988178' post='2574851']
MFO didn't even know about it until this DoW came about...
[/quote]

There comes a time where every alliance must look hard at itself in a mirror and decide if it can actually serve it's members or if it's an alliance in name only. Not knowing that your alliance has attacked another alliance is kind of important.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Jocko Homo

[The MVP]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1294987582' post='2574837']
I see unimpeachable evidence that one nation carried out a spy attack. I have seen nothing to even suggest that MFO endorsed or encouraged it, however.

It's not all that hard to arrange for a single nation to commit an act of war under the flag of any alliance against any other alliance. It is the custom to respond to rogue attacks with a *narrow* military response - NOT a blitz on the entire originating alliance, and to allow diplomacy a chance to work, for a reason. The alternative is that every alliance can find itself at war at any moment, with no warning, because of a single rogue attack (whether the work of foreign agents or not) that they did nothing to encourage and could not possibly have stopped.

I've always been fond of FAN, and the "Guns for Tots" program is truly praiseworthy. But blitzing an entire alliance over a rogue attack without even giving them a chance to deal with it? That is a precedent in no ones interest.
[/quote]

What bothers me is that FAN did act in self-defense. Why must FAN take it upon themselves to open up diplomatic doors to a nation who is affiliated to an AA that acted hostile towards one of their nations and by proxy FAN itself? Why does it have to be FAN's job to approach MFO about these unprovoked attacks, shouldn't it be MFO's? Has MFO took it upon themselves to take responsibility into their own hands and message FAN to apologize or reach an agreement? If so I understand but why does FAN have to? I don't like the precedent, to be quite honest, of getting attacked then it falls on me to take on diplomacy when I've been wronged to begin with.

FAN's response is when this idea of it's okay to wrong an alliance and now the alliance has to take it upon themselves to go to the alliance that provoked the attack to begin with ends.

Edited January 14, 2011 by The MVP

[Guest Mike Oldfield]

[quote name='ironchef' timestamp='1294986748' post='2574818']
Didn’t you hear ddog? You can still have the alliance name in your AA, still hold a members mask on your alliance forum, still have ops in your alliance irc chan, still get aid from your alliance but you can be labeled a rogue by your alliance government so they are not help responsible for your actions and you get to stay a member. I like to call them Member Rogues, you get to keep them in your alliance and aid them but you are not responsible, win win. So yes by today’s standards he could be classified as a rogue. What has this world become.

o/ FAN shoot first ask questions latter
[/quote]
Rogues are bad, Alliances protecting rogues is criminal bordering on stupid.
Spying on FAN is just asking for it.
o/FAN ZI one for me

[Shodemofi-NPO]

Go MFO, I'm a fan of your calculators.

[James Wilson]

Go FAN, Go!

Enjoy your war.

[Locke]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1294986771' post='2574819']
FAN, unlike your pathetic excuse for an "alliance", took matters into their own hands. Instead of being spied on they decided to act in defense of their spied on nation unlike you incompetently dismissing spy attack after spy attack from SLCB. See the difference? You think SLCB would've pulled that stunt on FAN knowing how severe a response it would warrant? Unlike you, FAN aren't push overs. Them subtly hinting they'd want to roll my nation would hold far more sway then you coming out and saying you want to roll mine. Because guess what? They actually do !@#$.
[/quote]
There are certain constants I've come to expect from your posts, and you've fulfilled two of them.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1294988804' post='2574862']
There are certain constants I've come to expect from your posts, and you've fulfilled two of them.
[/quote]

And there are two constants which you fulfilled amidst your own situation, complain and do nothing.

What did FAN do? Act, and do something.

Edited January 14, 2011 by The MVP

[Andy P]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1294988537' post='2574857']
What bothers me is that FAN did act in self-defense. Why must FAN take it upon themselves to open up diplomatic doors to a nation who is affiliated to an AA that acted hostile towards one of their nations and by proxy FAN itself? Why does it have to be FAN's job to approach MFO about these unprovoked attacks, shouldn't it be MFO's? Has MFO took it upon themselves to take responsibility into their own hands and message FAN to apologize or reach an agreement? If so I understand but why does FAN have to? I don't like the precedent, to be quite honest, of getting attacked then it falls on me to take on diplomacy when I've been wronged to begin with.

FAN's response is when this idea of it's okay to wrong an alliance and now the alliance has to take it upon themselves to go to the alliance that provoked the attack to begin with ends.
[/quote]
It used to be precedent that when attacked by a single nation (more so if the attack consisted of spying instead of real war), one goes to the gov of the respective alliance and demand either reps or the releasing of the aggressor nation to be punished by the attacked. Especially with a small and rather inactive AA one cannot demand they check their screens every day. Besides doesn't everyone normally just check the war screen? (*takes note to never miss the spy reports screen ever again*)

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988932' post='2574865']
It used to be precedent that when attacked by a single nation (more so if the attack consisted of spying instead of real war), one goes to the gov of the respective alliance and demand either reps or the releasing of the aggressor nation to be punished by the attacked. Especially with a small and rather inactive AA one cannot demand they check their screens every day. Besides doesn't everyone normally just check the war screen? (*takes note to never miss the spy reports screen ever again*)
[/quote]

Disagree. Responsibilities come with leading an alliance. One of those is ensuring security, which can come in the form of making sure you check war screen, [i]and spy screens[/i] daily.

[Weezy]

I'm torn here. MFO should have control over their members or should've came to FAN with reps and/or recognizing the nation as a rogue, but at the same time isn't it possible MFO government hadn't logged into their nations for the day yet?

Personally, idc either way, but ets see if the same ones rooting for this cause today feel the same way when someone much larger than them rolls them for the same reasons.

Anyways, good luck FAN, sorry to hear about the kids... poor guys.

Edit:


[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1294988741' post='2574860']
Go MFO, I'm a fan of your calculators.
[/quote]

If this someway causes me to lose MFO calculators....

Edited January 14, 2011 by Weezy

[hizzy]

[quote name='He Who Has No Name' timestamp='1294988082' post='2574850']
I'd suggest you double check exactly who WROTE most of that history...
[/quote]

We did, and don't you forget it

[Sephiroth]

Those kids need their firearms, enjoy your war and good luck continuing your "Guns for Tots" program despite the losses.

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Andy P' timestamp='1294988932' post='2574865']
Especially with a small and rather inactive AA one cannot demand they check their screens every day. Besides doesn't everyone normally just check the war screen? (*takes note to never miss the spy reports screen ever again*)
[/quote]

Sounds like this is a great reason to avoid inactive alliances doesn't it?

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='He Who Has No Name' timestamp='1294987867' post='2574842']
The last time we were hit with a "rogue" attack and tried to respond diplomatically, we were hunted for months on end with the goal of attempted genocide. Not once, but TWICE.[/quote]

And the criminals responsible for that walk free and haughty on the planet to this day. I wouldnt blame you a bit if you wanted to do something about *that.* But instead you are rolling an alliance less than 7% of your own size over a rogue attack? Disappointing.


[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1294988377' post='2574855']
We gave diplomacy a chance to work. We waited. We put out a table with finger sandwiches on it, hoping for a visit. We brushed the hunting dog hair off our suit jackets to look more presentable. We waited. We looked outside, up and down thew street, wondering if they couldn't find out mobile home, no callers, we waited. We looked to see if anyone registered on our forums, possibly couldn't get a mask,. Nope. we waited. Then we realized nobody was coming. [/quote]

And it never occurred to you to give them a call eh? I mean, I wouldnt blame you if you were a little aggressive there. I wouldnt blame you for putting a fireteam on winters right off the bat for that matter, I would have done the same myself. But blitzing the whole bunch without even bothering to make sure they were aware of what he had done? C'mon.

[nippy]

The number of double-standard holders in this thread is overwhelming.

[BossCat]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1294989623' post='2574875']
The number of double-standard holders in this thread is overwhelming.
[/quote]

To be expected... after all it involves FAN

[hizzy]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1294989623' post='2574875']
The number of double-standard holders in this thread is overwhelming.
[/quote]

I honestly can't tell which 'group' you're referring to... and actually I'm curious.

[Locke]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1294988924' post='2574864']
And there are two constants which you fulfilled amidst your own situation, complain and do nothing.

What did FAN do? Act, and do something.
[/quote]
Actually, I did plenty (as anyone who actually had a stake in the situation can attest), and I only complain at the general lowering of IQ I have to suffer reading your posts.

OOC: Why the hell are you not on my ignore list anyways?