JWConner Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294529267' post='2568981'] What? Of course it is. If a VA nation tech raided me they'd be paying reps too. What fantasy land do you live in? The pre-Karma one where your treaty with TPF let you do whatever you wanted? [/quote] Did you even read what I wrote? How dense are you? I guess I'll have to write it again for you, making sure to spell out everything so you can keep up. What part of "a rogue tech raid is usually handled more diplomatically than this" didn't you understand? I guess I need to spell out that when there's a tech raid, it's handled between the two alliances in back channels and worked on because it was a tech raid, not a declaration of war. This is common procedure for rogue tech raids. Wow, you're just looking to argue for arguments sake at this point. Kinda sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294529752' post='2569000'] Did you even read what I wrote? How dense are you? I guess I'll have to write it again for you, making sure to spell out everything so you can keep up. What part of "a rogue tech raid is usually handled more diplomatically than this" didn't you understand? I guess I need to spell out that when there's a tech raid, it's handled between the two alliances in back channels and worked on because it was a tech raid, not a declaration of war. This is common procedure for rogue tech raids. Wow, you're just looking to argue for arguments sake at this point. Kinda sad. [/quote] Which is exactly what we did. We handled this and worked it out as if it were a rogue sanction (which it was). However, a senator is also a public figure, unlike an alliance member. So it was the right move to bring this to the attention of the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote]The only effect of the sanction was a 3 day hold on a tech deal. ... My point is, there was absolutely NO HARM DONE. NONE.[/quote] Delaying aid [i]is[/i] material damage. Slowing someone's nation development down by 3 days can be quite significant. Though, indeed, it is the principle that really matters here. But there's no way you're being serious, you know perfectly well that a sanction on an alliance member is a serious matter. [quote]a rogue tech raid isn't an act of war[/quote] What? Now you're just talking nonsense. A 'tech raid' requires you to [i]declare war[/i]; of course it's an act of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294530067' post='2569003'] Which is exactly what we did. We handled this and worked it out as if it were a rogue sanction (which it was). However, a senator is also a public figure, unlike an alliance member. So it was the right move to bring this to the attention of the public. [/quote] No, it wasn't the right move to take it public. To you it was, because you were able to make a scene, which is what you do. But it should have been handled in private, no matter what your lack of common sense tells you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294530340' post='2569010'] No, it wasn't the right move to take it public. To you it was, because you were able to make a scene, which is what you do. But it should have been handled in private, no matter what your lack of common sense tells you. [/quote] Why? So that the senator can't be held responsible to the people that vote for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294470912' post='2568406'] It's already been discussed ad nauseum that the VA Senator acted on his own due to reacting to Penkala's moronic remarks. Was it over the top? Maybe. Was it an act of war? Absolutely not. [/quote] From the Argent Charters 2.0 [quote]Team sanctions placed on a member of Argent without prior warning and just cause will be considered an act of war. [/quote] So...to make a blanket statement that it's not an act of war is ludicrous. What is or isn't an act of war depends completely on the parties involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1294521876' post='2568848'] A muddled precedent of which I know you are not ignorant. There have been resolutions over far greater issues than 6m. Even under similar circumstances. You are better than selective citations TypoNinja. I know you. [/quote] Oh I don't dispute that it is a minor act (as was NSO's 6 mil) the point I was attempting to illustrate is that even a minor act of war is still an act of war, just because they are almost always solved before they come to war does not change their status. Its a point that escapes Conner. And as the 6 million dollar war showed us even the most minor incidents when poorly handled can lead to a war. [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294525035' post='2568892'] Snippity [/quote] The level of just plain wrong here is so extreme I honestly don't even know where to begin. Gramlins after the Easter Sunday accords were more coherent than you and they were still bat !@#$ nuts. [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294526817' post='2568930'] Nah, you're delusional. I'm not the one saying that delaying a tech deal by 3 days is an act of war. That would be you. And just because you say it doesn't make it true. [/quote] If you took any lesson away from the 6 million dollar war it should have been that the lack of scale in an offense is no defence, it is intent that matters. A Sanction is a Sanction, regardless of how effective it may or may not have been. [quote] Also, what hole? I don't see any hole. Please, tell me what hole I'm digging and how it's getting any deeper. All I see is someone talking a lot and doing very little [/quote] People like you are the reason we think your side of the web is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWConner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1294530430' post='2569013'] Why? So that the senator can't be held responsible to the people that vote for him? [/quote] Do you really think the Yellow team members who vote for Augustus would be affected by what you say? Really? You realize they're VA and DB4D members, right? That knowledge alone disputes your claims right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294497523' post='2568572'] That's not what WCR told me at the time. And sorry, he's been more trustworthy than you over the years. [/quote] Bob is telling the truth. GRE's decision to move off green was the main reason I left that alliance. I would not have left if it was something that was forced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote]You realize they're VA and DB4D members, right?[/quote] Yeah, that's kind of the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294532200' post='2569044'] Do you really think the Yellow team members who vote for Augustus would be affected by what you say? Really? You realize they're VA and DB4D members, right? That knowledge alone disputes your claims right away. [/quote] So if we were to attack, we could include DB4D too. Good to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wad of Lint Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) [quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1294531715' post='2569035'] Oh I don't dispute that it is a minor act (as was NSO's 6 mil) the point I was attempting to illustrate is that even a minor act of war is still an act of war, just because they are almost always solved before they come to war does not change their status. Its a point that escapes Conner. And as the 6 million dollar war showed us even the most minor incidents when poorly handled can lead to a war. [/quote] While I do not disagree, the extent of a minor issue to become major is often in the hands of those in power. With no chips, minor players have few options. Further, I put the responsibility on the major players to uphold honor and integrity. For it is they, with the power to give in to temptation to act under the shadow of oppression and tyranny. Edited January 9, 2011 by Wad of Lint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted January 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1294536505' post='2569104'] While I do not disagree, the extent of a minor issue to become major is often in the hands of those in power. With no chips, minor players have few options. Further, I put the responsibility on the major players to uphold honor and integrity. For it is they, with the power to act under the shadow of oppression and tyranny. [/quote] Fortunately, we have acted with restraint and patience. Unlike alliances such as NSO that immediately respond with declarations of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1294536414' post='2569102'] So if we were to attack, we could include DB4D too. Good to know. [/quote] So VE is contemplating attacking a Yellow alliance based on its members voting for a senator that they don't like? Ever hear of the Golden Sabres war? Face, meet palm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294543061' post='2569186'] So VE is contemplating attacking a Yellow alliance based on its members voting for a senator that they don't like? Ever hear of the Golden Sabres war? Face, meet palm. [/quote] But I swear! we're not as bad as them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294543061' post='2569186'] So VE is contemplating attacking a Yellow alliance based on its members voting for a senator that they don't like? Ever hear of the Golden Sabres war? [/quote] Been there, done that. That aside, you really need to understand a few things. I know how hard it is for you to comprehend, so I'll try to make a simple list. 1) I don't speak for VE. IF we were to attack, I would learn about it probably a little before everyone else 2) In the Golden Sabres war, they were attacked for voting for a senator from an alliance at war. 3) In this instance, DB4D enabled the senators attack by voting for him. 4) When did I ever say we would attack them? It was merely hypothetical. I know you love to froth at the mouth whenever you hear anything VE-related, but try not to be too rabid about it. You just embarrass yourself. [quote] Face, meet palm. [/quote] Finally! Something we can agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1294525035' post='2568892'] It's not my fault that WCR, like all the rest of that great generation of MHA leadership, has left this world. [/quote] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display§ion=blog&blogid=613&showentry=2437"]He's still here.[/url] [quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1294528228' post='2568955'] Who are you? Go play with your legos and leave this to the big kids, mmkay? [/quote] Big kids play with Legos too. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7QdWX.png[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I thought the GS war was widely acknowledged to be justified? However, as Felix said, that situation was quite different, with GS government actively supporting a senator who was at war with NPO. And no, we aren't going to attack an alliance for having members who vote for the wrong senator. By the way, Invicta [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23949]fully supported the GS war[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Locke' timestamp='1294560201' post='2569551'] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display§ion=blog&blogid=613&showentry=2437"]He's still here.[/url] Big kids play with Legos too. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7QdWX.png[/IMG] [/quote] Funny thing is he's the 30 years old dude that argues like a child with "NO U" retorts. Plus I'm older than him. Both mentally and certainly physically. But judging by his reaction to this topic that he indeed, plays with handbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294574882' post='2569667'] I thought the GS war was widely acknowledged to be justified? [/quote] Uh, no, it wasn't. It's been frequently cited by your lot as an example of the terrible horrors that NPO put the poor downtrodden FAN through. [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294574882' post='2569667'] By the way, Invicta [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23949]fully supported the GS war[/url]. [/quote] Sigh, Atlashill. You'll note that there are no posts from any current members of Invicta in that thread, including myself. There's a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Are you [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23946&view=findpost&p=633773]quite sure about that[/url]? Seems to me [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23942&view=findpost&p=633751]you personally posted in support[/url], too. Let's have less revisionism in your desperate attempt to find a stick to beat VE/PB with, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Quit bringing facts into this Bob. This is a time for WHARBARGABL not facts and stuff. Allow me to put this back on track. OMG VE IS SO EVIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berbers Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294588469' post='2569745'] Are you [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23946&view=findpost&p=633773]quite sure about that[/url]? Seems to me [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23942&view=findpost&p=633751]you personally posted in support[/url], too. Let's have less revisionism in your desperate attempt to find a stick to beat VE/PB with, please. [/quote] Ouch....going to need some topical cream for that burn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted January 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294588469' post='2569745'] Are you [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23946&view=findpost&p=633773]quite sure about that[/url]? Seems to me [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=23942&view=findpost&p=633751]you personally posted in support[/url], too. Let's have less revisionism in your desperate attempt to find a stick to beat VE/PB with, please. [/quote] Well that settles that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicknight Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1294574882' post='2569667'] I thought the GS war was widely acknowledged to be justified? [/quote] I still support & love that war But part of what Haf said is true, in some 'karma' propaganda it was somehow part of the endless terrors & horrors CN suffered in the longest night. and nice burn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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