Backroom Extortion is Back

[Alterego]

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1289256498' post='2506623']
We have far more guts than you can handle.
[/quote]
True, 1 person v a sanctioned alliance is a sure defeat. However, I was talking about MK attacking other medium to large alliances with no CB.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Alterego

[Heft]

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1289256498' post='2506623']
We have far more guts than you can handle.
[/quote]
Fatties?

[heggo]

You know, I've thought about this topic, and I've realized something: MK actually usually are really great people. Perhaps we just had a misunderstanding. Perhaps someone in their government just made a mistake, and accidentally thought that each member of that trade circle payed our ghost 3m/50t, thus making their request for 15m/250t perfectly reasonable. Now, I'll gladly pay out the full 15m/250t myself if it turns out this wasn't just a misunderstanding, but for now I'll just stick with having sent the 3m/50t so MK wouldn't have to go to the trouble of sending the extra money back later after the issue is cleared up.

Oh, and I'd like a response from MK gov about this- regular MK members simply aren't enough to resolve the question of whether or not all we had here was a plain everyday misunderstanding. You know, I understand that disagreements happen and hope that we can all work past our pride and come to a clean and nice conclusion here.

Edited November 8, 2010 by heggo

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289256619' post='2506626']
Manipulation? Hardly. We asked for 15m, and you accepted. If you were 'hoping to negotiate' the general rule of thumb is to actually make that known to the other party. The logs don't have time stamps (hot off the press?) so I don't know how long the conversation lasted, but it certainly appears long enough to give some inclination of an attempt to negotiate. I don't believe i've ever seen the NSO willingly pay out some sort of punitive damages.

Your final sentence really highlights my point. You accepted the sum simply so it could see the light and you could make this thread. We are accused of being aggressive and warmongering, and yet you appear to be the one initiating the tensions through your apparent eagerness to pay the 15m.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I didn't accept willingly. I accepted because I knew that was the only choice we had. If we refused MK would more have likely attacked, along with their allies. Not along would that demolish us yet again, we'd be forced into paying absurd amounts of compensation to your buddies as well as to you. Much greater amounts than the measly 15 million Yev and Pippy demanded. Given the options, you shouldn't be surprised I took the bargain.

Also, there was no negotiating and there wasn't going to be any negotiating. Yev and Pippy had no interest in hearing the NSO's side of the story. We had no choice but to give them the answer they wanted to hear or Lord knows what kind of trouble we'd have invited upon ourselves. We had no choice but to pay, and we will, but I've made sure the world knows, and has solid evidence of, what you do behind closed doors. If it makes you look aggressive and warmongering, well, that's your doing, not the NSO's.[/color]

[Banksy]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1289256794' post='2506632']
Yes, the NSO is seeking out conflict with MK. That is clearly what is going on here.

That makes total sense.

If we wanted a real conflict (a little back and forth on the forum hardly counts), all we would have needed to do was be reasonable.
[/quote]
This is conflict, when people are arguing and taking contrary positions. Did you really think posting these logs would lead to us holding hands and sitting around a camp fire? Why did you make no attempts to negotiate if not to create some sort of conflict? Either RV is completely incompetent (which he isn't) or he had this planned (either before the conversation, or some time during it).

[Chaoshawk]

I don't see how all 5 nations were damaged by one of them losing 3m.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289256489' post='2506622']
Not really. Not to mention he is going into this thinking he was going to get screwed. You remember that feeling right? Going into a negotiation knowing that no matter what you do you are going to get cheated?
[/quote]

We at least sought mediation and tried to negotiate despite that feeling, Airme.

Yes, we are monsters for our deeds. We also stole NPO's baby recipe and perfected it.

Edited November 8, 2010 by tamerlane

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289256295' post='2506615']
[color="#0000FF"]
You'll get your money, but you better believe I'll let the world know, because rubbish like this cannot be allowed to stay behind closed doors. It must see the light.[/color]
[/quote]
So NSO hasn't paid yet?

RV, god damn it tell these $%&@ers to $%&@ off. Test the web. Do something other than fold to these people.

[Moridin]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289256667' post='2506628']
[color="#0000ff"]When MK got in touch with current NSO government members we informed them that Lord Revan was not a member. However, when they refused to accept that statement, then the problems began. Had they just been able to accept it there would have been no problems, but then they'd have gotten no tech either, so they couldn't have done that.[/color]
[/quote]
[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289256844' post='2506634']
We told them as much but they didn't like that answer and wanted some sort of payment from us.
[/quote]

They were initially told by a former leader of yours that the person was a member. The person was masked as an Acolyte. Given the circumstances, it was reasonable for MK to suspicious that NSO had changed its story to get out of paying, even if it did end up being a misunderstanding.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289255679' post='2506597']
Im arguing that if the terms were so outrageous, RV had every reason to negotiate down, he did not. That says something.
[/quote]
Like I said, RV certainly could have tried to negotiate the terms down. That he didn't doesn't necessarily mean that he agreed with the terms, at all. As the conversation with RV was the third one you guys had with NSO representatives, it would be reasonable for him to assume that you are sticking with that number, since you have since the incident began. It is also possible that he assumed that a refusal to pay the 15M and 250T would have resulted in war. And finally, during the negotiations he stated he was tired and wanted to head to bed, and it is possible that he agreed to that sum to avoid drawn out quibbling over the value of the lost trade and the total of the lost revenue, etc. I haven't talked to RV so I don't know why he didn't try to negotiate, but simply because he didn't does not necessarily mean that he agreed with the sum asked for.

[Alterego]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289257043' post='2506642']
We at least sought mediation and tried to negotiate despite that feeling, Airme.

Yes, we are monsters for our deeds. We also stole NPO's baby recipe and perfected it.
[/quote]
Negotiate? You just made a demand and that was that.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1289257061' post='2506644']
They were initially told by a former leader of yours that the person was a member. The person was masked as an Acolyte. Given the circumstances, it was reasonable for MK to suspicious that NSO had changed its story to get out of paying, even if it did end up being a misunderstanding.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I tried explaining that there was a misunderstanding, but they were not interested. Us trying to lie to and manipulate them makes for a much better story on their end, as untrue as it may be.[/color]

[Banksy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289257017' post='2506639']
[color="#0000FF"]I didn't accept willingly. I accepted because I knew that was the only choice we had. If we refused MK would more have likely attacked, along with their allies. Not along would that demolish us yet again, we'd be forced into paying absurd amounts of compensation to your buddies as well as to you. Much greater amounts than the measly 15 million Yev and Pippy demanded. Given the options, you shouldn't be surprised I took the bargain.[/quote]
Yes, except refusing isn't the same as negotiating, is it?

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1289257017' post='2506639']
Also, there was no negotiating and there wasn't going to be any negotiating. Yev and Pippy had no interest in hearing the NSO's side of the story. We had no choice but to give them the answer they wanted to hear or Lord knows what kind of trouble we'd have invited upon ourselves. We had no choice but to pay, and we will, but I've made sure the world knows, and has solid evidence of, what you do behind closed doors. If it makes you look aggressive and warmongering, well, that's your doing, not the NSO's.[/color][/quote]
Yev and Pip had already heard 3(?) sides of the story and were not interested in breaking dimensions to hear a fourth, I expect you're right. Hearing another story spun is different from negotiations.

[Ardus]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1289256962' post='2506638']
You know, I've thought about this topic, and I've realized something: MK actually usually are really great people. Perhaps we just had a misunderstanding. Perhaps someone in their government just made a mistake, and accidentally thought that each member of that trade circle payed our ghost 3m/50t, thus making their request for 15m/250t perfectly reasonable. Now, I'll gladly pay out the full 15m/250t myself if it turns out this wasn't just a misunderstanding, but for now I'll just stick with having sent the 3m/50t so MK wouldn't have to go to the trouble of sending the extra money back later after the issue is cleared up.

Oh, and I'd like a response from MK gov about this- regular MK members simply aren't enough to resolve the question of whether or not all we had here was a plain everyday misunderstanding. You know, I understand that disagreements happen and hope that we can all work past our pride and come to a clean and nice conclusion here.
[/quote]
The New Sith Order had its opportunity to negotiate. It waived that right in favor of a PR opportunity.

$15 million. 250 tech.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Moridin' timestamp='1289257061' post='2506644']
They were initially told by a former leader of yours that the person was a member. The person was masked as an Acolyte. Given the circumstances, it was reasonable for MK to suspicious that NSO had changed its story to get out of paying, even if it did end up being a misunderstanding.
[/quote]
You do understand that his is a trade circle cancelation over $3mil right. Moridin, I expect more from you than this.

[heggo]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289257049' post='2506643']
So NSO hasn't paid yet?

RV, god damn it tell these $%&@ers to $%&@ off. Test the web. Do something other than fold to these people.
[/quote]
Do have a look at my post. We'll only pay them after we get just a tad little bit of clarification.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289257162' post='2506647']
Negotiate? You just made a demand and that was that.
[/quote]
Yes, because RV accepted the sum and didn't question it. We are unable to negotiate on his behalf and hold his hand as that does go against the entire point of negotiating.

[Ashok]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1289257200' post='2506650']
Yev and Pip had already heard 3(?) sides of the story and were not interested in breaking dimensions to hear a fourth, I expect you're right. Hearing another story spun is different from negotiations.
[/quote]

Ah see again saying we aren't all on the same page. All current government members were on the same page whereas our ex emperor who is no longer gov (therefore no power). Lintwad told them he was not active nor was he in any position to give them a good enough answer but they took it anyway and said we are all liars. Very good work.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1289257151' post='2506646']
Like I said, RV certainly could have tried to negotiate the terms down. That he didn't doesn't necessarily mean that he agreed with the terms, at all. As the conversation with RV was the third one you guys had with NSO representatives, it would be reasonable for him to assume that you are sticking with that number, since you have since the incident began. It is also possible that he assumed that a refusal to pay the 15M and 250T would have resulted in war. And finally, during the negotiations he stated he was tired and wanted to head to bed, and it is possible that he agreed to that sum to avoid drawn out quibbling over the value of the lost trade and the total of the lost revenue, etc. I haven't talked to RV so I don't know why he didn't try to negotiate, but simply because he didn't does not necessarily mean that he agreed with the sum asked for.
[/quote]

I think it would have been incredibly interesting had he not posted this thread and, in the morning, re-approached the issue. Instead he opted for his typical showboating.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1289257162' post='2506647']
Negotiate? You just made a demand and that was that.
[/quote]

The funny thing is I was responding to AirMe about something completely unrelated.

[heggo]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1289257257' post='2506651']
The New Sith Order had its opportunity to negotiate. It waived that right in favor of a PR opportunity.

$15 million. 250 tech.
[/quote]
Now now, let's be reasonable. I'm not "negotiating", just checking to see if we had a plain misunderstanding. These things do happen after all.

[Moridin]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289257291' post='2506653']
You do understand that his is a trade circle cancelation over $3mil right. Moridin, I expect more from you than this.
[/quote]

I am well aware of that. If you would have read my [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94443&view=findpost&p=2506620"]previous post[/url] you might have found that I believe MK was inflating the importance of the issue beyond what is reasonable.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Moridin

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1289257257' post='2506651']
The New Sith Order had its opportunity to negotiate. It waived that right in favor of a PR opportunity.

$15 million. 250 tech.
[/quote]
The Mushroom Kingdom had its opportunity to be reasonable. It waived it in favor of being ......

$1.5billion 25,000tech (next time you lose a war) It will happen, you guys are !@#$@#$ up left and right that it will eventually happen.

Edited November 8, 2010 by Fernando12

[Banksy]

[quote name='Ashok' timestamp='1289257359' post='2506656']
Ah see again saying we aren't all on the same page. All current government members were on the same page whereas our ex emperor who is no longer gov (therefore no power). Lintwad told them he was not active nor was he in any position to give them a good enough answer but they took it anyway and said we are all liars. Very good work.
[/quote]
Yes, actually I was pointing out that nothing RV said refuted the fact he didn't appear to negotiate, but keep on beating your (deceased) horse.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289257043' post='2506642']
Yes, we are monsters for our deeds. We also stole NPO's baby recipe and perfected it.
[/quote]
You obviously haven't tasted our new stuff

[Cotillion]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1289257451' post='2506661']
The Mushroom Kingdom had its opportunity to be reasonable. It waived it in favor of being ......

$1.5billion 25,000 (next time you lose a war) It will happen, you guys are !@#$@#$ up left and right that it will eventually happen.
[/quote]

This is priceless. Absolutely priceless.