Forcing alliances to disband is back

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285976219' post='2471627']
I am very aware of that thing called Karma, but Karma wasn't the point of my post, rather how I am amazed at how members of the Mushroom Kingdom, not so long ago decried the very behavior they now openly support. What happened to you guys? Such a shame.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]GOONS happened. They came back, got friendly with MK, and to but it simply (as strange as this may sound), have simply been a bad influence on them. Let us not forget that when MK was with the first GOONS this is generally how they behaved. After they got rolled int he UjW, and were threatened repeatedly, and then noCB, they stopped being "unjust" and developed some principles. They knew how it felt to be on the receiving end. But power does a funny thing to most people. It corrupts, and it makes people forget where they come from.[/color]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1285977211' post='2471649']
Karma was about rolling the NPO.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Really? I thought it was about much more than revenge.[/color]

Edited October 1, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1285977211' post='2471649']
Karma was about rolling the NPO.
[/quote]
So Achons statement was insincere as well as many of the other statements made by MK members through out that thread? Once again my post was not about Karma, it was about the ideals that members of your alliance expressed in that thread, ideals which run contrary to MKs consistent support of GOONS actions of late.

[Choson]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1285977223' post='2471651']
[color="#0000FF"]They came back[/color]
[/quote]
Some of us never really left.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1285977642' post='2471659']
Some of us never really left.
[/quote]
Clearly solid evidence that the manifesto posted on the return of the new, different, gentler GOONS was nothing but malarkey.

[Choson]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285977794' post='2471666']
Clearly solid evidence that the manifesto posted on the return of the new, different, gentler GOONS was nothing but malarkey.
[/quote]
Well, it's not our fault that we like to gently caress things up.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1285978055' post='2471668']
Well, it's not our fault that we like to gently caress things up.
[/quote]
The why not just go back to the Order of Neutral Shoving?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285977444' post='2471655']
So Achons statement was insincere as well as many of the other statements made by MK members through out that thread? Once again my post was not about Karma, it was about the ideals that members of your alliance expressed in that thread, ideals which run contrary to MKs consistent support of GOONS actions of late.
[/quote]
It should be obvious by now, everything Archon and his lackeys ever said in that war was a flat out lie, to try and gain good PR, the 'moral high ground,' and in turn get as many numbers on his side as possible, with the singular goal of taking down NPO and replacing that vacancy with his own alliance.

Of course, the whole "Well didn't Karma stand for X" line of reasoning is to demonstrate that it actually didn't, and although a lot of people in the Karma coalition were honestly fighting for those ideals, the core alliances were not. The idealists took Archon's word that the world would change for the better, but, you know how it goes, once he gets in power, all those promises become meaningless, there's no longer a need to fulfill them.

Thus things like GOONS, who for now really are only testing the water to see just how much they can get away with, and any other countless number of examples since the Karma coalition was victorious. Though this is a dumb thread to argue about GOONS in because GOONS hasn't done the alleged wrong in the OP, and they can't until Ninjas/FnKa actually want to surrender. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see GOONS go through with eternal war in the end, it would be an understatement to call this thread premature.

At any rate, the point is that the Karma coalition, for the most part, didn't care about all the 'moral justice' they touted, and were just seeking power, which they got. Banksy is honest enough to admit the sham, so we should just mark his statements down for future reference, and move on.

[Choson]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285978467' post='2471675']
The why not just go back to the Order of Neutral Shoving?
[/quote]
Just because I was in Old GOONS doesn't mean that we act like Old GOONS.

And the "new, different, gentler" GOONS couldn't "return" from anything. They didn't go anywhere and then came back. They are a wholly "new" alliance that is unfairly judged on the behavior of the alliance of the same name that preceded it. While Old GOONS did a lot that is and could be considered unorthodox, I have yet to see NuGOONS even come close to their policies.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1285981445' post='2471730']
Just because I was in Old GOONS doesn't mean that we act like Old GOONS.

And the "new, different, gentler" GOONS couldn't "return" from anything. They didn't go anywhere and then came back. They are a wholly "new" alliance that is unfairly judged on the behavior of the alliance of the same name that preceded it. While Old GOONS did a lot that is and could be considered unorthodox, I have yet to see NuGOONS even come close to their policies.
[/quote]

In the eyes of many you have a heck of a jump start getting there, one of my favorites is the mercy boards.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285977444' post='2471655']
So Achons statement was insincere as well as many of the other statements made by MK members through out that thread? Once again my post was not about Karma, it was about the ideals that members of your alliance expressed in that thread, ideals which run contrary to MKs consistent support of GOONS actions of late.
[/quote]
> NPO does stuff everyone objects to
> World rolls NPO et al in revenge
> GOONS does stuff people object to
> ???
> World rolls GOONS et al in revenge

~cutting edge analysis~

@ HoT, the irony in your post in unbelievable. Criticising Karma for using a faux-moralistic argument when all they wanted to do was get revenge, and then spouting on about GOONS being immoral and evil and ruining the 'planet.' I'm sure the criticisms of GOONS have [i]nothing[/i] to do with which side of the web they're on and [i]everything[/i] to do with your moralistic code.

[Choson]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285981915' post='2471738']
In the eyes of many you have a heck of a jump start getting there, one of my favorites is the mercy boards.
[/quote]
Have you actually been to the mercy boards or are you just parroting the next flavor of the month when it comes to bashing us?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1285982930' post='2471752']
@ HoT, the irony in your post in unbelievable. Criticising Karma for using a faux-moralistic argument when all they wanted to do was get revenge, and then spouting on about GOONS being immoral and evil and ruining the 'planet.' I'm sure the criticisms of GOONS have [i]nothing[/i] to do with which side of the web they're on and [i]everything[/i] to do with your moralistic code.
[/quote]Hi there.

I'm not entirely sure how to attack this, because it's just so very wrong. There's the fact that I admire, respect, and support a handful of alliances on 'your side' and am in general indifferent to many of them, the fact that I allow tech raiding in my own alliance, the fact that I simply don't claim you are 'ruining the planet' (GOONS is too insignificant to even be capable of that on it's own) or any of the other straw man positions you like to ascribe to anyone who disagrees with you, the fact that I'm certainly not a 'moralist,' the fact that I was largely indifferent to GOONS until they started doing things I found, variously, illogical, irrational, or in rare cases actually deplorable, and so on and so forth.

Oh, and just for good measure, it was probably the clearest example of an [i]ad hominem[/i] attack that I've ever seen, not only ignoring my points but seemingly confirming them.

But yeah, I totally don't believe a word I'm saying. Blast you for seeing through my lies! It's all part of our master plan to discredit 'your side' so that the New Old Hegemony can make it's glorious return.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1285969709' post='2471491']
Yes, because that was the point of my argument.

The fact is, I applaud you for actually doing something. However, attacking GOONS and then trying to make [i]them[/i] look like the bad guy is idiotic at best. If GOONS doesn't want to give FnKa an easy out in this war, they have every right to. It's not like GOONS declared war on them and demanded these things; FnKa brought this on themselves.
[/quote]
But they said hurtful things!

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285981915' post='2471738']
In the eyes of many you have a heck of a jump start getting there, one of my favorites is the mercy boards.
[/quote]
Mercy board is not only optional when it comes to getting peace from a tech raid (there are alternatives that don't involve this), the stuff is not that big a deal. Usually we ask for something like a picture or a poem. Occasionally it's something more creative. But something harmless and for fun.

Besides which, you know that not only do we require our own members to do these things when they mess up (which shows that it's seriously not that hard), but sometimes we do them just for fun? One of the terms I asked for when I was the high adjudicator was for the person to draw a robotic fish with cybernetic enhancements. Three people in the thread including me drew one just for fun. So what's so terrible about us asking for people to do these things? In fact, somewhat frequently when people do these things they get a kick out of it and then join GOONS.

[Beefspari]

DP

Edited October 2, 2010 by Beefspari

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1285977444' post='2471655']
So Achons statement was insincere as well as many of the other statements made by MK members through out that thread? Once again my post was not about Karma, it was about the ideals that members of your alliance expressed in that thread, ideals which run contrary to MKs consistent support of GOONS actions of late.
[/quote]

Could you explain this in more detail? What ideals, how are we running contrary to them?

[Dexomega]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1285867652' post='2469902']
I mean this completely out of character as you decided to post this in the OOC section of the forums, meaning you must be taking this game WAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.
[/quote]
I know not what you speak of, as this is planet Bob.

[ooc]This is an IC forum. Good one.[/ooc]

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Dexomega' timestamp='1286044270' post='2472357']
I know not what you speak of, as this is planet Bob.

[ooc]This is an IC forum. Good one.[/ooc]
[/quote]Indeed it is.

(OOC: it was originally posted in the ooc forum and moved here, though.)

[nippy]

[quote name='Dexomega' timestamp='1286044270' post='2472357']
I know not what you speak of, as this is planet Bob.

[ooc]This is an IC forum. Good one.[/ooc]
[/quote]

[ooc]I see you're unable to follow the course of events that resulted in this thread being moved into the IC forum. Good one.[/ooc]

[Haflinger]

[quote name='_GunneR_' timestamp='1285939110' post='2471008']
As some have mentioned offering white peace to what amounts to a group of rogues, I feel inclined to laugh. Harder.
[/quote]
Most rogues get white peace after being ZIed. Sometimes ZIed for a fairly long period of time, but still, it's pretty rare for them to pay reps.

[wickedj]

I just want to butt in and page magicninja to customer service, hes won a lifetime supply of car wax for [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54890&view=findpost&p=1446618]this[/url]

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1286057924' post='2472515']
Most rogues get white peace after being ZIed. Sometimes ZIed for a fairly long period of time, but still, it's pretty rare for them to pay reps.
[/quote]
It seems awfully convenient that everybody and their mother (including the rogues themselves) argue that they aren't rogues, until it comes time to pay reps.

What an alliance does with rogues attacking them though is undoubtedly their own business. Some people tend to define rogues as people who go off and attack for no reason and then disappear. So yes, getting reps from them would be nigh impossible I should think. For any that intend to go rogue and then change their mind and decide to stick around when they get bored, I wouldn't ever recommend just letting them go.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1286066260' post='2472627']
It seems awfully convenient that everybody and their mother (including the rogues themselves) argue that they aren't rogues, until it comes time to pay reps.
[/quote]
Eh, it's not only rogues that refuse to pay reps. I was just talking about rogues there, not the group of people who don't pay reps.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1286066260' post='2472627']
What an alliance does with rogues attacking them though is undoubtedly their own business. Some people tend to define rogues as people who go off and attack for no reason and then disappear. So yes, getting reps from them would be nigh impossible I should think. For any that intend to go rogue and then change their mind and decide to stick around when they get bored, I wouldn't ever recommend just letting them go.
[/quote]
Ever hear the phrase "Can't get blood from a stone?"

At some point, generally before you've had the rogue nation bill-locked for six months, you think to yourself "Eh, that's enough."

[Drai]

I am going to force alliances to disband.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1286086621' post='2472839']
Ever hear the phrase "Can't get blood from a stone?"

At some point, generally before you've had the rogue nation bill-locked for six months, you think to yourself "Eh, that's enough."
[/quote]
I'll tell you when I've had enough.

People shouldn't attack assuming they'll just be let off the hook eventually. I'm sure that happens sometimes, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm (and even if it was, it's not how GOONS operates). I know personally, I'm under no obligation to accommodate my enemy. If their refusal to cooperate or pay reps results in an eternal war or their own disbandment, that's their fault.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Beefspari