War Ends

[Jrenster]

Wait, who's whining about the beer review. I personally enjoyed it. Dopp's finest work if I do say so myself.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282669879' post='2429550']
I don't base my opinion of people on whether or not they demand apologies. It is possible to disagree with someone else's stance on something and still like or respect them. This point is something I would just tend to agree to disagree on.
[/quote]

In other words - having people like that around make things convenient so he has no wish to delve into a discussion where this may become more apparent than his avoidance does.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='The MVP' timestamp='1282652477' post='2429320']
I find all this talk of the other side saying, "hopefully we can move on, good luck NSO..." talk somewhat cute. I, for one, also look forward to Rampag3 getting ZI'd in the near future. If a rogue would like to hit him, I'll be sue to aid him (rogue) with whatever I have left.

[/quote]

Which isn't much.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1282670154' post='2429553']
In other words - having people like that around make things convenient so he has no wish to delve into a discussion where this may become more apparent than his avoidance does.
[/quote]

Considering the lack of actual posting talent coming from that side of the web, I don't think I'd have much to worry about if what you stated were actually true.

So no, my statement doesn't have some hidden meaning. It simply means that I feel OWF apologies are stupid and worthless, but others may not feel that way. Should they demand one, that is completely up to them.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[VeritasK]

o/ Peace.

Peace is Always worth Fighting for.

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282670638' post='2429561']
Considering the lack of actual posting talent coming from that side of the web, I don't think I'd have much to worry about if what you stated were actually true.

So no, my statement doesn't have some hidden meaning. It simply means that I feel OWF apologies are stupid and worthless, but others may not feel that way. Should they demand one, that is completely up to them.
[/quote]
Sure, there is nothing unusual about differing with your allies or anyone based on personal opinion, however why would you sign a document that you by its core consider worthless?

[Heft]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1282668167' post='2429523']
Pretty sad we are down to arguing over the [i]extreme weight[/i] of a beer review as terms.
[/quote]
[quote name='Midkn1ght' timestamp='1282670109' post='2429551']
That's odd, you'd think we'd know if he threatened to continue the war and actually meant it, other then eposturing threats, considering how open our alliance is internally. I'll lay money on everyone would of just walked away if not for the fit you guys threw over the beer review last time. It being forced was indeed stupid, childish, etc, but after last time, they were going to make you do it, you had to of known that, hell folks were calling for it at the start. I wouldn't of bothered for the headache it caused, doing it accomplished nothing but making your alliance more bitter seemingly and giving you ammo for "term" fits for what, we'll say 50 pages? [/quote]
I'm going to guess neither of you have read the thread since we're actually quite happy with the beer review.

[quote]Hoo's got an ego of his own, and I'm sure he wouldn't stand for Xiph trying to boss him around anymore then Xiph would take Hoo giving him orders. Again, you got to pick one, we're either a meatshield who follows orders, or we tell folks what to do. Can't have it both ways. But then again, we're friends, it doesn't work like that on this side of the web. A cluster... er "screw" community of half baked ideas that get voted on sure, but ordering each other around doesn't happen. [/quote]
What we know is that Hoo intended to do one thing, and then for some reason that thing didn't happen, and all the evidence points to a certain "ally" of his throwing a fit, despite constantly talking about how they're only in the war to keep us out of peace mode yadayada. I have no idea why Xiph, or anyone other than RoK or TENE, thought they should be deciding on terms to end the war. Clearly RoK convinced themselves that terms aren't actually terms and so decided to just indulge this latest ego trip, but it's nothing to be proud of, and I don't see why anyone would be surprised at us pointing out how terribly this war was run on your side of things.

[quote]I don't care about the ava, I'm saying folks shouldn't call other folks childish when they're doing just as bad, on a game rule breaking level none the less. I personally find it funny, as I'm sure Xiph does, just pointing out how screwed it is.[/quote]
I think we realize that it's a little petty and childish, and even a bit belligerent, but that sort of response strikes me as perfectly appropriate when dealing with Xiphosis, since he doesn't seem to understand anything else.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1282629146' post='2428996']The loser in a war being forced to admit wrong-doing. It's like this crazy new concept.[/quote]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1282651016' post='2429312']Only in the post-Karma world are otherwise intelligent people willing to make ludicrous arguments like this. The victors demanded NSO accept responsibility for their actions. How dare they.[/quote]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282651786' post='2429315']If you thought you were going to escape from the war without accepting that you surrendered and taking some responsibility for the actions that led to war, then that was rather a silly thing to believe.[/quote]

Except for the Easter Sunday Accords right? Glad to see this surrender included a full allocution. The Grämlins' mission, it seems, was accomplished. You're all welcome for the education you got. Sure there's some clever word-splicing to be done by LintWad, Heft and Chron about "We only quoted what they told us to, that's not the same as actually admitting anything". Allocutions typically work that way though. The People are generally satisfied, even though it's readily apparent to all that the indicted does not really believe what he/she is saying. As has already been discussed, forced apologies are forced and there's no way to know 100% if someone is truly contrite. However, legal standards have to apply somewhere or nothing would ever get done.
On the other hand if NSO said this without 'a boot on their neck' that would be quite an interesting precedent... you know... accepting accountability without the threat of destruction looming?

So in effect, this is exactly the legal standard of allocution, thus establishing (by admission) the guilt of the accused. It's too bad no one was interested in getting the same from TOP/IRON/etc in the last war, but nice that you all seem to have learned from your mistakes.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1282671335' post='2429571']
Except for the Easter Sunday Accords right? Glad to see this surrender included a full allocution. The Grämlins' mission, it seems, was accomplished.
[/quote]
Still not quite back to reality I see.

[Cobalt]

wait, so the war ends and all NSO has to give up is a basically meaningless apology and a [i]beer review[/i] - and people are still complaining over the terms?

Next time you lose a war, we'll send [i]you[/i] reps, then will you be happy?

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282671656' post='2429576']
Still not quite back to reality I see.
[/quote]

Still not addressing the point, I see.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1282671302' post='2429568']
Sure, there is nothing unusual about differing with your allies or anyone based on personal opinion, however why would you sign a document that you by its core consider worthless?
[/quote]

Because it ended the war for [b]all[/b] parties in the two week time frame that we intended.


[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1282671323' post='2429570']What we know is that Hoo intended to do one thing, and then for some reason that thing didn't happen, and all the evidence points to a certain "ally" of his throwing a fit, despite constantly talking about how they're only in the war to keep us out of peace mode yadayada. I have no idea why Xiph, or anyone other than RoK or TENE, thought they should be deciding on terms to end the war. Clearly RoK convinced themselves that terms aren't actually terms and so decided to just indulge this latest ego trip, but it's nothing to be proud of, and I don't see why anyone would be surprised at us pointing out how terribly this war was run on your side of things.[/quote]

Incorrect, but I am getting used to it when it comes to you and your alliance's posts. We were not interested in reps or terms, but we were interested in our allies peacing out at the same time as RoK ... which you guys also wanted, correct? We achieved that and have already stated that [b]we[/b] were not interested in terms to end this. What is the issue here anyway? We did exactly what we said we would and then some. Not only did the war end in two weeks as promised, but it ended for [b]all of us.[/b] RoK requested nothing of you, however our allies requested a statement to end this now. I'm not sure what is so heinous about any of this or where you were "lied to".

And yes, you guys are crybabies. Complete and total crybabies. I never thought that of your alliance before despite being told it was so, but I completely see it now. None of this really mattered as the Sith would find a way to simply sit and cry about it anyway.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[Alterego]

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1282671756' post='2429578']
Still not addressing the point, I see.
[/quote]
Your mission failed. This is not you doing this, its someone else. Your mission was to get IRON to surrender unconditionally. It only became the other thing later. Once again, this is not you doing this its someone else.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282671709' post='2429577']
wait, so the war ends and all NSO has to give up is a basically meaningless apology and a [i]beer review[/i] - and people are still complaining over the terms?

Next time you lose a war, we'll send [i]you[/i] reps, then will you be happy?
[/quote]


The same posters would sit and post about how unfair it is, the NSO would cry about something, and Haflinger and others would proclaim it is a conspiracy.

The predictability of the majority of you is saddening.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282671709' post='2429577']
wait, so the war ends and all NSO has to give up is a basically meaningless apology and a [i]beer review[/i] - and people are still complaining over the terms?

Next time you lose a war, we'll send [i]you[/i] reps, then will you be happy?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Actually we were quite happy to do the beer review, and the empty apology we can live with. I just want you all to understand that we don't mean a single word of it. That's all.[/color]

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282671944' post='2429583']
Your mission failed. This is not you doing this, its someone else. Your mission was to get IRON to surrender unconditionally. It only became the other thing later. Once again, this is not you doing this its someone else.
[/quote]


Allocutions, sincerity, forced apologies... this all seems strangely relevant!

[Utracia]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282672026' post='2429587']
[color="#0000FF"]Actually we were quite happy to do the beer review, and the empty apology we can live with. I just want you all to understand that we don't mean a single word of it. That's all.[/color]
[/quote]

Message noted, though I think most of us have managed to piece your feelings on this matter together by now

[the rebel]

[quote name='Tungsten' timestamp='1282671709' post='2429577']
wait, so the war ends and all NSO has to give up is a basically meaningless apology and a [i]beer review[/i] - and people are still complaining over the terms?
[/quote]

Well the curbstomping side couldnt of demanded anything other than white peace for fear of being demonised by the community

[Alterego]

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1282672218' post='2429592']
Allocutions, sincerity, forced apologies... this all seems strangely relevant!
[/quote]
You have to take part to accomplish your mission.

Back on track, congrats NSO.

[Infidel Israeli]

lol, what happened to NSO? I liked the "you don't like it, do something about it" mentality when you trolled the cry babies (reference to the moldavi doctrine). Now you're just as pitiful as the rest of them.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1282672415' post='2429595']
Well the curbstomping side couldnt of demanded anything other than white peace for fear of being demonised by the community
[/quote]


Regardless, STA would be here complaining anyway. Do not worry denizens of Bob, whenever there is a perceived injustice the Siberian Tiger Alliance will be there and will at least piss and moan in your behalf.

Also, I don't really care how "the community" feels or what their opinion is. Never have. Never will.

[Heft]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282671846' post='2429581']
Incorrect, but I am getting used to it when it comes to you and your alliance's posts. We were not interested in reps or terms, but we were interested in our allies peacing out at the same time as RoK ... which you guys also wanted, correct? We achieved that and have already stated that [b]we[/b] were not interested in terms to end this. What is the issue here anyway? We did exactly what we said we would and then some. Not only did the war end in two weeks as promised, but it ended for [b]all of us.[/b] RoK requested nothing of you, however our allies requested a statement to end this now. I'm not sure what is so heinous about any of this or where you were "lied to".

And yes, you guys are crybabies. Complete and total crybabies. I never thought that of your alliance before despite being told it was so, but I completely see it now. None of this really mattered as the Sith would find a way to simply sit and cry about it anyway.
[/quote]
No, this is just the new way of deflecting actual criticism. Well, not really new, but certainly enjoying a comeback. "You're just crying!"

We took your war and dealt with it without serious complaint, and put up with the inability of your side to agree on an actual decision or to stay consistent without complaint.

But you couldn't have expected us to just meekly post up this "statement" without commenting on the absurdity of the whole situation.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282672636' post='2429600']
Regardless, STA would be here complaining anyway. Do not worry denizens of Bob, whenever there is a perceived injustice the Siberian Tiger Alliance will be there and will at least piss and moan in your behalf.

Also, I don't really care how "the community" feels or what their opinion is. Never have. Never will.
[/quote]

Thats nice to know, anyway moving along, congrats on "white peace"

[Crymson]

I'm sure Xiphosis is steaming at the fact that there are no reparations included. Sorry, Xiph; your power trip will need to wait for another day.

[Haquertal]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1282673014' post='2429604']
We took your war and dealt with it without serious complaint [snip]
[/quote]

So what were all those posts explaining how this war was unjust?