Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281364350' post='2407452'] Is your argument now becoming that Rebel Virginia has more credibility than Jrenster? [/quote] Is yours that he is less credible? This is a fun game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_GunneR_ Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Tough decision to make for anyone. Gotta do what you think is best. Now you've just gotta hold your head high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281364499' post='2407465'] Is yours that he is less credible? This is a fun game. [/quote] Actually, I'm not the one who's trying to make claims about the communications between GATO and NSO based on no evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1281363833' post='2407436'] Way to show resolve, GATO! I was wondering how long it would be before you decided to cut and run on NSO. [b]I don't think they COULD notify you[/b] of the threat as they didn't really know it was coming either. But you sure showed them for not having predicted Hoo's itchy trigger finger. [/quote] Wow you're right pms don't exist. Silly me, nevermind NSO Duncan King has opened up my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281364448' post='2407461'] Because this literally happened in a period of a couple of hours in the middle of a Saturday night when no one from GATO was on. Everyone was tired and wanted to go to sleep. LintWad, heggo, I, and Anthony were not there. Most of our other government members were not on. There. That's our excuse for bad communication. We were tired and they were not available. Given enough time, we would have told GATO that following Sunday. But they already found out that a couple of alliances were going to hit us. [/quote] So you are saying, that you should not discuss with your allies FIRST, the CERATINTY that sending aid to this nation will be considered an act of war. Really? My point is... perhaps... just perhaps... you should have been less interested in looking like Johnny Badass and pushing RoKs buttons to satisfy your collective egos, and more interested in the fallout to your allies. Was it REALLY imperative that the aid that you were told would be deemed an act of war, go out at EXACTLY that moment, before you spoke to your allies? Neither of us are new to this game, and surely you are not daft enough to believe this to be inconsequential to the interpretation of Artcile 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281364658' post='2407474'] Wow you're right pms don't exist. Silly me, nevermind NSO Duncan King has opened up my eyes. [/quote] Sorry. We were tired and unavailable. I suspect that we were also under some level of stress given our talks with RoK. I didn't know that you were so unforgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281362774' post='2407406'] Words [/quote] What you have said here amounts to acknowledging that it's ok for your alliance to be cruel bullies in new and interesting ways because at the end of the day, you know you have friends to take care of the messes you create for you. I hate your alliance, and I hope that when you finally burn, I get to help with your destruction. You are a sack of thoughtless hypocritical jerks, and you do not deserve some of the friends you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281364574' post='2407468'] Actually, I'm not the one who's trying to make claims about the communications between GATO and NSO based on no evidence. [/quote] So now you are saying their own words are not evidence? Keep stretching. Careful not to get a cramp though, they hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Well, this is smooth. ohohoho ohhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murder Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I believe that NSO would have told you if they wanted you to get involved; they try to save their allies from getting sucked in this war, and you guys quit on them. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281364671' post='2407475'] So you are saying, that you should not discuss with your allies FIRST, the CERATINTY that sending aid to this nation will be considered an act of war. Really? My point is... perhaps... just perhaps... you should have been less interested in looking like Johnny Badass and pushing RoKs buttons to satisfy your collective egos, and more interested in the fallout to your allies. Was it REALLY imperative that the aid that you were told would be deemed an act of war, go out at EXACTLY that moment, before you spoke to your allies? Neither of us are new to this game, and surely you are not daft enough to believe this to be inconsequential to the interpretation of Artcile 2. [/quote] I think you're missing my point. I could care less about what Article II says or does not say. I'm not an e-lawyer. Yes, Heft made a wrong move and RV was trying to negotiate. We're not goddamn machines. We can't sit around in the middle of the night and remember every single procedure that we have to do. So sorry that we didn't tell GATO in the blink of an eye. I mean, given this logic, all of our other allies should be butthurt too. But they're not because they understand the value of our friendship. They look past what the text says and understand our situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom98 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 As someone looking at this from the outside. I can see the fault in NSO's actions. This seems to have started over a nation at war getting aided, a 4k nation at that. What I would like to know is simple, what is the difference between an alliance that aids a new app and several alliances aiding in a dogpile in a war? it would seem that the combined forces that have all DoWed NSO is in fact doing exactly what they are claiming NSO did. This sounds so much like the pot and the kettle. I am however quite impressed at the speed in which 4 separate alliances can coordinate an attack with rok without prior planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281364718' post='2407477'] Sorry. We were tired and unavailable. I suspect that we were also under some level of stress given our talks with RoK. I didn't know that you were so unforgiving. [/quote] Heft was just chilling in the channel the following morning. He obviously didn't think we were important enough to be informed. If Heft has enough power to send all of NSO to war then he has the power to violate a treaty or to simply send a message to an ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281364743' post='2407480'] So now you are saying their own words are not evidence? Keep stretching. Careful not to get a cramp though, they hurt. [/quote] Yep. Words aren't evidence. There, said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281365000' post='2407490'] Heft was just chilling in the channel the following morning. He obviously didn't think we were important enough to be informed. If Heft has enough power to send all of NSO to war then he has the power to violate a treaty or to simply send a message to an ally. [/quote] Well Heft doesn't have the power to send NSO to war. He has to power to make mistakes that would bring war to us. So you're basically breaking this treaty because of Heft? Jeez Heft, you're killing me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281364730' post='2407478'] What you have said here amounts to acknowledging that it's ok for your alliance to be cruel bullies in new and interesting ways because at the end of the day, you know you have friends to take care of the messes you create for you. I hate your alliance, and I hope that when you finally burn, I get to help with your destruction. You are a sack of thoughtless hypocritical jerks, and you do not deserve some of the friends you have. [/quote] I will just assume that you do not know me. It has to be the case. There was nobody more critical internally of the decision to raid Ni! when it happened. I was embarrassed by said decision. My only allusion the Ni! raid was based on Tyga saying that Londo should have known someone would threaten war. It had nothing to do with being bullies, it had nothing to do with needing our friends to mop up. See, the difference is, in the end, we got it right. Your buddies in NSO push button after button after button, and YOU(Frostbite, in general, and CnG(Athens included) were always their safety wall. View Athens as you want, it matters naught to me. It is far too easy and convenient for you to not see my point because you cannot counter it. I would pose that YOU , mayhaps, do not deserve some of the friends you have. On the other hand, you righteously deserve some of the other friends you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281365113' post='2407497'] See, the difference is, in the end, we got it right. [/quote] No, the difference is you didn't have 23.4M NS land on your doorstep 24 hours after the Ni! raid began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1281365113' post='2407497'] I will just assume that you do not know me. It has to be the case. There was nobody more critical internally of the decision to raid Ni! when it happened. I was embarrassed by said decision. My only allusion the Ni! raid was based on Tyga saying that Londo should have known someone would threaten war. It had nothing to do with being bullies, it had nothing to do with needing our friends to mop up. See, the difference is, in the end, we got it right. Your buddies in NSO push button after button after button, and YOU(Frostbite, in general, and CnG(Athens included) were always their safety wall. View Athens as you want, it matters naught to me. It is far too easy and convenient for you to not see my point because you cannot counter it. I would pose that YOU , mayhaps, do not deserve some of the friends you have. On the other hand, you righteously deserve some of the other friends you have. [/quote] You did not just pull a no u on pez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1281334860' post='2406846'] Just wait, when it becomes convenient for them to cancel on you, I'm sure they will. [/quote] No they won't. GATO will be ODN-esque in that regard. Now that there's only place for them, they'll have to live up to their word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Rush Sykes, I can name a half a dozen things Athens has done to deserve the general distaste I'm spewing at you. I challenge you to name just one thing STA has done to make us "not deserve" our aliies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1281365187' post='2407498'] No, the difference is you didn't have 23.4M NS land on your doorstep 24 hours after the Ni! raid began. [/quote] That is because we did nothing to warrant a war against us. We for sure did something to warrant that we would be perceived as sanctimonious jerks who thought, for a fleeting moment, that we were bigger than the game. Back on topic, these 2 incidents have utterly zero parallels. And it was a stretch, IMO, to make that connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281365062' post='2407494'] Well Heft doesn't have the power to send NSO to war. He has to power to make mistakes that would bring war to us. So you're basically breaking this treaty because of Heft? Jeez Heft, you're killing me here. [/quote] I'm glad we've finally reached the conclusion that Heft screwed us over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281365399' post='2407511'] I'm glad we've finally reached the conclusion that Heft screwed us over. [/quote] Want to ZI him? I'm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1281365261' post='2407505'] Rush Sykes, I can name a half a dozen things Athens has done to deserve the general distaste I'm spewing at you. I challenge you to name just one thing STA has done to make us "not deserve" our aliies. [/quote] I wont play that game with you. To be honest, im better than that. I build relationships, I dont tear them down. You keep sitting in your perceived cleanliness. In truth, as an allince, you folks are just fine IMO, but you are not nearly as clean as you think you are. Further, none of this is on the topic of this thread, which is the fact that NSO knowingly committed an act of war against another alliance. There is a political fallout to be associated with such folly. As many get out of jail free cards as NSO has had to play in the past (with MY crappy alliance as part of their shield) I certainly am entitled to expect them to LEARN something once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wad of Lint Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1281365000' post='2407490'] Heft was just chilling in the channel the following morning. He obviously didn't think we were important enough to be informed. If Heft has enough power to send all of NSO to war then he has the power to violate a treaty or to simply send a message to an ally. [/quote] I should have cancelled your treaty when the aid you (GATO) promised following the last war never came. Cowards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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