The Guru Order Offers a Helping Hand...

[ImaNewbie]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1279445125' post='2377022']
I am not in their position, so I could not speculate what I would or would not do.

But I can say that the man is looking for viable ways to keep UPN going, something that should be seen as respectable in some sense.

Which can be not said of some others.
[/quote]
It's hard to be respected when you ask another alliance to abandon their allies, sovereignity, form of government and sense of integrity and merg into your alliance just because "you have problems". Not only GO were asked to abandon everything while being given next to nothing in return, they were to do so solely for UPN's benefit. I think there is a very thick line here beyond which charity can't reach. And asking for charity itself doesn't earn you respect either, quite the opposite.

Edited July 18, 2010 by ImaNewbie

[nutkase]

[quote name='Arrnea' date='18 July 2010 - 05:27 PM' timestamp='1279445204' post='2377025']
Because "give up your independence as a very effective alliance just because we need members and say so" is a totally respectable way to go about it.

Especially coming from an alliance that is [b]none of the above[/b].
[/quote]

He is not forcing them to do anything like your trying to suggest, he was asking questions. I did not see any demands being made.


[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='18 July 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1279445315' post='2377027']
How is a merger with a random alliance a viable way? Its like having a ship sinking and still taking on passengers.
[/quote]

So you would happily just sit back and let your alliance turn to nothing? he is a man searching for a way out of a situation and rather then just sit back and do nothing he decided to try something. Something I would consider as least worthy of been respected in some sense.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1279445609' post='2377035']He is not forcing them to do anything like your trying to suggest, he was asking questions. I did not see any demands being made.[/quote]
I didn't say he demanded that they do it, because he didn't. He did however, ask that they do exactly that, without really getting anything tangible in return.

[nutkase]

[quote name='ImaNewbie' date='18 July 2010 - 05:30 PM' timestamp='1279445414' post='2377031']
It's hard to be respected when you ask another alliance to abandon their allies, sovereignity, form of government and sense of integrity and merg into your alliance just because "you have problems". Not only they were asked to abandon everything while being given next to nothing in return, they were to do so for UPN's benefit. I think there is a very thick line here beyond which charity can't reach. And asking for charity itself doesn't earn you respect either, quite the opposite.
[/quote]

[quote name='Arrnea' date='18 July 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1279445709' post='2377037']
I didn't say he demanded that they do it, because he didn't. He did however, ask that they do exactly that, without really getting anything tangible in return.
[/quote]

Then what is wrong with saying a respectful no and going on your way?

Edited July 18, 2010 by nutkase

[ImaNewbie]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 11:35 AM' timestamp='1279445725' post='2377039']
Then what is wrong with saying a respectful no and going on your way?
[/quote]
Note: I am not defending GO here, what they did does not fall under standards either, but I do believe UPN was doing it wrong to begin with.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1279445725' post='2377039']
Then what is wrong with saying a respectful no and going on your way?
[/quote]
Because anyone silly enough to ask that of an alliance they've hardly even spoken to before [b]deserves[/b] to be humiliated for it.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1279445609' post='2377035']
So you would happily just sit back and let your alliance turn to nothing?
[/quote]
Is that what I said?

Here is a hint: No.

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1279445609' post='2377035']
he is a man searching for a way out of a situation and rather then just sit back and do nothing he decided to try something. Something I would consider as least worthy of been respected in some sense.
[/quote]
Acting like an incompetent buffoon is not worthy of respect.

[De Caelo Missus]

Kind of the wrong way to go about it, but props to Kevanovia for atleast trying to revive UPN.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='18 July 2010 - 05:40 PM' timestamp='1279446023' post='2377044']
Is that what I said?

Here is a hint: No.


Acting like an incompetent buffoon is not worthy of respect.
[/quote]


You are laughing at the fact a member of a alliance is trying to save it.

I have more respect for a man who tries to save something and makes himself look silly then someone who just sits back and does nothing.

Edited July 18, 2010 by nutkase

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1279446264' post='2377052']
You are laughing at the fact a member of a alliance is trying to save it.
[/quote]
No, I'm laughing at the way he is trying to do it. Not the same thing.

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1279446264' post='2377052']
I have more respect for a man who tries to save something and makes himself look silly then someone to just sits back and does nothing.
[/quote]
I take it you never laughed at Shaneprice or Dephire (sp?) during that GGA incident then.

[Hymenbreach]

Nobody comes out this smelling of roses. UPN needs to do more research and learn to make friends before making mergers. GO needs to know this is not how diplomacy works. I see both sides equally damaged by this thread. I'd certainly think twice about approaching GO about anything, not knowing where they're level of humour lies.

Smells like government inexperience on both sides.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='Hymenbreach' date='18 July 2010 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1279446421' post='2377054']
Nobody comes out this smelling of roses. UPN needs to do more research and learn to make friends before making mergers. GO needs to know this is not how diplomacy works. I see both sides equally damaged by this thread.
[/quote]
Well that would depend who you ask. I think a few people are impressed by the way GO handled this, while others, such as nutkase here, think the UPN guys are heroes for trying to save their dying alliance.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='18 July 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1279446352' post='2377053']
No, I'm laughing at the way he is trying to do it. Not the same thing.


I take it you never laughed at Shaneprice or Dephire (sp?) during that GGA incident then.
[/quote]

Again, he is trying to save something of value to him. He was trying every avenue available to him. Cannot laugh at someone for trying.

From my recollection I never laughed at Shaneprice or Dephire, if anything I call Shane a friend.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1279446741' post='2377060']
Cannot laugh at someone for trying.
[/quote]
I believe I can and indeed already have.

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:52 PM' timestamp='1279446741' post='2377060']
From my recollection I never laughed at Shaneprice or Dephire, if anything I call Shane a friend.
[/quote]
In that case you obviously have no sense of humor.

[nutkase]

[quote name='Ryuzaki' date='18 July 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1279446839' post='2377063']
I believe I can and indeed already have.


In that case you obviously have no sense of humor.
[/quote]

I do have a sense of humour, just not at the expense of others.

[Ryuzaki]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 10:56 PM' timestamp='1279446960' post='2377065']
I do have a sense of humour, just not at the expense of others.
[/quote]

You really are missing out then.

[ComradeR]

[quote name='Hymenbreach' date='18 July 2010 - 04:47 AM' timestamp='1279446421' post='2377054']
Nobody comes out this smelling of roses. UPN needs to do more research and learn to make friends before making mergers. GO needs to know this is not how diplomacy works. I see both sides equally damaged by this thread. I'd certainly think twice about approaching GO about anything, not knowing where they're level of humour lies.

Smells like government inexperience on both sides.
[/quote]
This is why we all have to come together, have a beer and get to know each other. I see it as this is all in good fun =)

and I thought this is how governments are ran... they all are supposed to have their uniqueness in order to accommodate the members of the alliance, making it more friendlier to the members.

Edited July 18, 2010 by ComradeR

[Earth Shaker]

JmanofAus, Even if you felt insulted or UPN made a mistake, I believe you shouldn't have came here and mock them. They talked you in private. And we all know what private means.

I don't have any respect for UPN, Nor do I like them but I feel you did a mistake as well.

[Sir Keshav IV]

Wow. What UPN did was idiotic agreed but what GO has done is also wrong. It's not funny when you point at someone and laugh however idiotic they are. GO should have just said no and moved on.

Bad show GO.

[Banksy]

Smooth, Kev.

That said, GO isn't exactly brimming with class here either. It's not as if this means anything, kev is a deputy minister with, what, less than 3 weeks seniority in the alliance? Not exactly a serious offer. If I posted every single convo i've had with someone who is speaking out of place, nonsensical or deluded, the OWF would be chocker.

[delendum]

This is sort'a like when MK proposed the same thing to Vaxhulla, amirite?

[Arrnea]

[quote name='delendum' date='18 July 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1279451560' post='2377102']This is sort'a like when MK proposed the same thing to Vaxhulla, amirite?[/quote]
Except for that was a joke, knowing MK. UPN is being serious here.

[justavictim82]

[quote name='nutkase' date='18 July 2010 - 05:44 AM' timestamp='1279446264' post='2377052']
You are laughing at the fact a member of a alliance is trying to save it.

I have more respect for a man who tries to save something and makes himself look silly then someone who just sits back and does nothing.
[/quote]

This.

I feel it kind of funny that alliances are attacking UPN about this right now. Its not like your alliance has never had a bad PR move or an issue in foreign relations. GO did not need to do this and could have settled this behind closed doors.

[Divi Filius]

I can understand the fact that this story was both so unbelievable and hilarious that you felt you needed to share it with others.

However I've never been a fan of logdumping just to make someone else look silly, not even if the person doing the logdumping considers my alliance to be among the 'five most awesome on Planet Bob' ( )

Edited July 18, 2010 by Divi Filius

[Haflinger]

Oh god, Kev.

I know you're trying to save UPN, but try to use a bit more common sense. The Guru Order?

Anyway, for all those who don't know, Kev isn't exactly the leader of UPN. http://s6.zetaboards.com/Unitd_Purple_Nations/topic/1026180/ He's a Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, roughly equivalent in NPO terms to an Envoy. I really doubt this came from high UPN government.