An MHAnnouncement

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Simon De Montfort' date='20 March 2010 - 01:16 AM' timestamp='1269062201' post='2231026']
predictable response is .... predictable
[/quote]

As I said, when you have seven different allies end up on the other side of the war you started, I think it's clear who the "insincere friend" is.

[Diomede]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1269062280' post='2231029']
I sent the aid to the ODN nation to help him fight against the IRON nation, who we had actually coordinated several times against to fight.
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at war exclusively with MHA. There's a bit of a difference.
[/quote]
Splitting hairs.

Good luck to both alliances involved.

[AvengingAngel256]

Like I said just before;
I sent Aid to help a Guy Fight an Enemy of mine
TOP sent aid to help nations fight TOP's ally MHA.

[sacramento]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='19 March 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1269062280' post='2231029']
I sent the aid to the ODN nation to help him fight against the IRON nation, who we had actually coordinated several times against to fight.
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at war exclusively with MHA. There's a bit of a difference.
[/quote]


LOL, yeah, keep telling yourself that. You send money that helped destroy TOP. I dont think it is condemnable, but you very hypocritical of you guys to raise that against TOP when you were:

1.- Doing the same
2.- Where actively plotting against our allies which at the moment were uninvolved in the war.

Again, I cant condemn you four doing what you thought was right, but a thread like this is in a different level of hypocrisy.

Edited March 20, 2010 by sacramento

[Yggdrazil]

MHA has disappointed me with responses to this thread. In the past on this forums I was impressed with the class MHA posters showed. Now attacking posters personally rather than the content of their response is not what I saw from past contentious subjects from MHA. Where did your "class act" disappear to? Now even wearing sigs that show arrogance. I do not remember this from former times.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='19 March 2010 - 10:21 PM' timestamp='1269062496' post='2231034']
Like I said just before;
I sent Aid to help a Guy Fight an Enemy of mine
TOP sent aid to help nations fight TOP's ally MHA.
[/quote]

TOP was still your ally. That money goes toward fighting TOP. Stop trying to make excuses, you're just failing at it .

[SinOfNemesis]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1269062496' post='2231034']
Like I said just before;
I sent Aid to help a Guy Fight an Enemy of mine
TOP sent aid to help nations fight TOP's ally MHA.[/quote]
Do you have proof that we were aiding only those nations that were fighting MHA? From what I see, we were sending aid to those who asked for it.

[Diomede]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 05:21 AM' timestamp='1269062496' post='2231034']
Like I said just before;
I sent Aid to help a Guy Fight an Enemy of mine
TOP sent aid to help nations fight TOP's ally MHA.
[/quote]
That happens to be at war with an ally of TOP.
I refuse to call this war anything other than a cluster$%&@... this is partially the reason. You can't scorn TOP for this while justifying doing it yourself, but at the same time it's understandable.

[AvengingAngel256]

[quote name='sacramento' date='20 March 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1269062574' post='2231037']
LOL, yeah, keep telling yourself that. You send money that helped destroy TOP. I dont think it is condemnable, but you very hypocritical of you guys to raise that against TOP when you were:

1.- Doing the same
2.- Where actively plotting against our allies which at the moment were uninvolved in the war.

Again, I cant condemn you four doing what you thought was right, but a thread like this is in a different level of hypocrisy.
[/quote]

I know you're going to laugh and write this off completely as me trying to cover my own tail but I didn't even know that particular ODN nation was at war with a TOP nation at the time, I guess my mistake for not checking but the fact remains the Same that the Aid was sent to help a nation I was fighting along side with to deal with a common enemy in IRON.
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at War exclusively with MHA not nations fighting along side them against a Common enemy. Nations Fighting a different front against a treaty partner of TOP's.


edit: spelling

Edited March 20, 2010 by AvengingAngel256

[Simon De Montfort]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 12:21 AM' timestamp='1269062496' post='2231034']
Like I said just before;
I sent Aid to help a Guy Fight an Enemy of mine
TOP sent aid to help nations fight TOP's ally MHA.
[/quote]
I mean I guess nations only fight ONE alliance ever in a giant coalition war right?

[SinOfNemesis]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1269062793' post='2231045']
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at War [b]exclusively[/b] with MHA not nations fighting along side them against a Common enemy. Nations Fighting a different front against a treaty partner of TOP's.


edit: spelling[/quote]
Do you want me to show you a spreadsheet screen shot where TOP was sending aid to anyone and everyone who was in the need of aid on our side? So no, we were not doing it exclusively to those who were at war with MHA.

And can you honestly tell me that your decision wasn't made up to cancel the treaty before that? You seem to accentuate the fact that you are very unhappy with the aiding. That's not the only problem why this treaty was cancelled.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 06:26 AM' timestamp='1269062793' post='2231045']
I know you're going to laugh and write this off completely as me trying to cover my own tail but I didn't even know that particular ODN nation was at war with a TOP nation at the time, I guess my mistake for not checking but the fact remains the Same that the Aid was sent to help a nation I was fighting along side with to deal with a common enemy in IRON.
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at War exclusively with MHA not nations fighting along side them against a Common enemy. Nations Fighting a different front against a treaty partner of TOP's.


edit: spelling
[/quote]

This whole aid argument is idiotic. I don't care that you guys aided nations fighting TOP, just don't criticize us for aiding our coalition. Also you guys had the luxury of letting other alliances send aid to those fighting TOP. As TOP was really the only major source of aid for our side we decided to help all nations in need.

[Diomede]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 05:26 AM' timestamp='1269062793' post='2231045']
I know you're going to laugh and write this off completely as me trying to cover my own tail but I didn't even know that particular ODN nation was at war with a TOP nation at the time, I guess my mistake for not checking but the fact remains the Same that the Aid was sent to help a nation I was fighting along side with to deal with a common enemy in IRON.
TOP Sent Aid to Nations at War exclusively with MHA not nations fighting along side them against a Common enemy. Nations Fighting a different front against a treaty partner of TOP's.


edit: spelling
[/quote]
IRON is TOP's ally and they were monetarily assisting an alliance that came to the aid of IRON... The entire situation for all parties isn't exactly ideal, what with both TOP and MHA attacking the other's ally, but to hold it against TOP for assisting their coalition just seems strange to me.

[bigwoody]

It seems pretty clear this treaty was untenable at this point...I do have to admit this is the first time I've seen MHA firing potshots in the first handful of responses though, seems as if they wanted this discussion to become a cesspool.

Good luck to everyone, but moreso to TOP since they're fighting alongside us. (Everyone else is being partisan, I can too!)

[D34th]

May be I'm wrong but I never saw MHA canceling a treaty with the winning side.

[AvengingAngel256]

[quote name='SinOfNemesis' date='20 March 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1269063114' post='2231054']
Do you want me to show you a spreadsheet screen shot where TOP was sending aid to anyone and everyone who was in the need of aid on our side? So no, we were not doing it exclusively to those who were at war with MHA.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, I may have mis-worded. I Meant sending to to nations at war exclusively with MHA nations. i.e. No Other War Targets than MHA. My Apologies for the confusion.


[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' date='20 March 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1269063163' post='2231056']
This whole aid argument is idiotic. I don't care that you guys aided nations fighting TOP, just don't criticize us for aiding our coalition.[/quote]
It's allowable when they're two really different things. The Aid I sent out was not specifically intended for use against a treaty part of the mha, It was sent out to help fight against an IRON opponent both the recipient and I were both at war with. The Aid in Question the TOP had sent out was specifically sent out to help nations war against a treaty Partner of TOP.

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' date='20 March 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1269063163' post='2231056']Also you guys had the luxury of letting other alliances send aid to those fighting TOP. As TOP was really the only major source of aid for our side we decided to help all nations in need.
[/quote]
Are you telling me there's not a single other alliance among your Coalition that was capable of sending out aid to nations in GGA, possibly avoiding this scenario? That the other alliances don't have bankers to send aid to GGA and TOP could have sent aid to the target's they were going to send to? Come on now.

[Farmer John]

I say we all drop this and focus on the message at hand. Who cares who did what lets just drop it and move on like we normally do. As we all know this will be old news tomorrow.Stuff happens and sometimes we don't pay attention to things. We are human and we all enjoy the game. Lets just move on from here.

[AvengingAngel256]

[quote name='Farmer John' date='20 March 2010 - 12:44 AM' timestamp='1269063833' post='2231068']
I say we all drop this and focus on the message at hand. Who cares who did what lets just drop it and move on like we normally do. As we all know this will be old news tomorrow.Stuff happens and sometimes we don't pay attention to things. We are human and we all enjoy the game. Lets just move on from here.
[/quote]

Agreed. As I said with my first post in the thread, Unfortunate that sometimes friends drift apart but that's life.
I do sincerely mean it when I say good luck to TOP in the Future. You guys are a top notch alliance and I don't doubt that you'll bounce back from this war.

[Diomede]

[quote name='Farmer John' date='20 March 2010 - 05:44 AM' timestamp='1269063833' post='2231068']
I say we all drop this and focus on the message at hand. Who cares who did what lets just drop it and move on like we normally do. As we all know this will be old news tomorrow.Stuff happens and sometimes we don't pay attention to things. We are human and we all enjoy the game. Lets just move on from here.
[/quote]
Hmm, I think I like you. This stance is partially why I usually ignore the OWF.

[SinOfNemesis]

[quote name='AvengingAngel256' date='20 March 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1269063676' post='2231067']
I'm sorry, I may have mis-worded. I Meant sending to to nations at war exclusively with MHA nations. i.e. No Other War Targets than MHA. My Apologies for the confusion.

It's allowable when they're two really different things. The Aid I sent out was not specifically intended for use against a treaty part of the mha, It was sent out to help fight against an IRON opponent both the recipient and I were both at war with. The Aid in Question the TOP had sent out was specifically sent out to help nations war against a treaty Partner of TOP.

Are you telling me there's not a single other alliance among your Coalition that was capable of sending out aid to nations in GGA, possibly avoiding this scenario? That the other alliances don't have bankers to send aid to GGA and TOP could have sent aid to the target's they were going to send to? Come on now.
[/quote]
Thank you for the clarification.
But I still do not see why the only thing MHA seems to be concerned is this aid. There were other reasons why this treaty was cancelled. GGA attacked MHA on Feb 2nd. TOP sent first GGA aid on Feb 4th. MHA ended up on another side BEFORE the aid was sent. So in order for you to end up on the other side, there had to be reasons for TOP-MHA drift before that.

Edit: If you have some questions about this, feel free to continue this discussion in query.

Edited March 20, 2010 by SinOfNemesis

[Scorn]

[quote name='SinOfNemesis' date='19 March 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1269063114' post='2231054']
Do you want me to show you a spreadsheet screen shot where TOP was sending aid to anyone and everyone who was in the need of aid on our side? So no, we were not doing it exclusively to those who were at war with MHA.

And can you honestly tell me that your decision wasn't made up to cancel the treaty before that? You seem to accentuate the fact that you are very unhappy with the aiding. That's not the only problem why this treaty was cancelled.
[/quote]

I can honestly say that I didn't want this treaty canceled until I saw GGA's aid screen full of TOP nations. (Same was true for some NADC nations.) I then wanted this treaty canceled in all haste and made every effort to that effect. Someday our governments may be able to enjoy each others company again. I think a lot of fences will need mending before that becomes a reality or even a possibility.

To those in TOP, I wish you well in the future and a speedy resolution in your current crisis.

[Ramirus Maximus]

Loltreaties.

You people are weird.

[Timeline]

[quote name='Believland' date='20 March 2010 - 04:05 AM' timestamp='1269057910' post='2230940']
As far as TOP starting the war goes, no they didn't. They started that front, not the war. If you cannot remember, it stemmed off of the \m/-Polaris dispute.
[/quote]

Someone needs to check their facts before posting, TOP - IRON - TORN - TSO - FEAR had made no DOW vs any alliance at war with anyone during the \m/ vs NpO war, (going by Wiki) what TOP and co did was a first strike attack on C&G the same Day \M/ and NpO gained white peace, shortly after the rest of the \M/ vs NpO war gained peace.

Yes the day \m/ vs NpO war ended TOP and co attacked C&G with no CB other then, "we did it before you did it to us" the only problem is TOP failed.

So yes TOP started this war.

[aaannndddyyy]

About time.

I can now take my towel off.

[Cormalek]

[quote name='sethb' date='20 March 2010 - 03:25 AM' timestamp='1269051913' post='2230843']
Don't take this as a slight against MHA but those alliances aren't exactly war machines. :x
[/quote]
[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' date='20 March 2010 - 04:14 AM' timestamp='1269054845' post='2230888']
Oh I'm sorry; I didn't realize what horrible odds you've faced! [/quote]
[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='20 March 2010 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1269060937' post='2231001']
Dude, you fought on the winning side. This took no balls.[/quote]
FYI, when entering the war MHA's NS was on level of 14'728'917. GGA-NADC-MCXA-TUF-Echelon had joint NS of 16'088'275. IRON was another 13'846'575. Yes, I believe that were some tough odds.
Damsky, so we have no balls because we won? oO


[quote name='Believland' date='20 March 2010 - 05:05 AM' timestamp='1269057910' post='2230940']
What were you saying to "The Brick wall"?[/quote]
We honked, we shouted at it to move, and it just stood there. Go figure.


[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' date='20 March 2010 - 05:22 AM' timestamp='1269058945' post='2230961']
So, the fact that I spied on you makes changing allegiances for the sake of protection acceptable? My allegiance to MHA was false and purely for the sake of combating y foes; yours is legitimate until it is no longer beneficial. there is a difference between a traitor and a coward, WCR, and to me you'll always be a coward.[/quote]
No. While the facts are indisputable, their interpretation is. Insight from a traitor is not very valuable when facing a judgment call.

[quote name='sacramento' date='20 March 2010 - 06:23 AM' timestamp='1269062574' post='2231037']
LOL, yeah, keep telling yourself that. You send money that helped destroy TOP. I dont think it is condemnable, but you very hypocritical of you guys to raise that against TOP when you were:

1.- Doing the same
2.- Where actively plotting against our allies which at the moment were uninvolved in the war.

Again, I cant condemn you four doing what you thought was right, but a thread like this is in a different level of hypocrisy.[/quote]
While TOP aiding IRON, especially nuke nations is pretty unnerving, it is more understandable. What we are referring to is aid given to direct opponent of their treaty partner (us), while they were not tied to TOP. I can hardly see how those are equal.


[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='20 March 2010 - 06:24 AM' timestamp='1269062629' post='2231039']
TOP was still your ally. That money goes toward fighting TOP. Stop trying to make excuses, you're just failing at it .[/quote]
Stop making fallacies, you're just failing at it. Some aid was sent individually to nations fighting mutual opponent - and no, not TOP, but IRON. TOP had an official program operating to pump with aid alliances attacking only their MDoAP partner.
---
Gave the attention junkies some attention. What can I say, I'm a good Samaritan.
---


[quote name='Lord Curzon' date='20 March 2010 - 05:16 AM' timestamp='1269058575' post='2230951']
Well gentlemen this has been a classy thread through and through. I'm sorry to see two friends part like this. It is clear from the MHA members' posts in this thread there is no longer a relationship between your two respective alliances. Sorry your relationship has changed so rapidly, but I hope you at least gave TOP a fair shot to explain their actions.

It is too bad that such an announcement needs to immediately become a mudslinging contest but I suppose we need an additional place to debate the same points given that a number of other [OOC]threads[/OOC] seem to have died down.[/quote]
No U! Wait, what? Oh, that's the reasonable side of the post.

Yes, while from Government Point of View the cancellation could still be avoided, and as such should be handled after the war, MHA members were feeling very uncomfortable with this treaty. We are fighting nuke nations revived with their aid. For almost two months our nations are nuked, GA's and so on - solely thanks to TOP's aid. This does not help heal wounds.
Now when we're talking IRON - I can understand this, they are helping their [b]close ally[/b]. We are fighting this ally because of [b]our[/b] obligations. If the aid started and ended here - OK, stuff happens. This would be understandable.
However, the aid started with alliances not tied to TOP, who attacked their MDoAP partner. Because of this, the aid being sent to IRON is no longer perceived by our members as helping out an ally, but as another switch of pumping aid to fight MHA. Sort of "last drop" thing here.

I find laughable the idea, that TOP didn't realize how we could have felt about this; aiding a side of war is an act of war. For Bob's sake, there was a reparations-halt not so long ago because of this.

[quote]But I still do not see why the only thing MHA seems to be concerned is this aid. There were other reasons why this treaty was cancelled. GGA attacked MHA on Feb 2nd. TOP sent first GGA aid on Feb 4th. MHA ended up on another side BEFORE the aid was sent. So in order for you to end up on the other side, there had to be reasons for TOP-MHA drift before that.[/quote]
As I said - nope. TOP made their call to attack CnG, because of which we had to come in to help our allies. While not the optimal situation, we understood TOP's reasons - even if we didn't agree with them. At this point we still thought of TOP as of an ally. This stance remained true until TOP started commiting acts of war against MHA by aiding our direct opponents, not tied to TOP.

[quote name='Ramirus Maximus' date='20 March 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1269066974' post='2231095']
Loltreaties.

You people are weird.[/quote]
To be honest, there's a lot of talk in MHA about going paperless. But we need to [s]study the specimen[/s] talk with fellow Gramlins on how that works out