Trade Centre Program

[Smithy]

Hi there,

About a year ago I started creating from scratch a fully automated trade circle program. The initial spec was to create a program whereby the user can sign up with their vitals (importantly; their 2 base resources) and the program would find a trade circle for them automatically.

Despite flailing interest and long spells of lack of motivation on my part, the program was completed a couple of months ago and has been in a testing and bug finding phase since. I realise that there are other systems developed by other users which claim to do the same thing, but they are no match for the program we have developed. Unlike other systems, ours uses PHP integrated with a MySQL database. Every line of PHP and SQL has been written by us and the program is therefore entirely customiseable. This gives us a unique advantage over other systems as it enables us to manage the program much more effectively. For example our program uses a login system; not only for the program's users, but also for a selected moderation team with varying privileges and access of moderation tools for moderation of the database.

The obvious advantage to this is the level of moderation we are able to commit to the program. Almost effortlessly we can remove, delete and edit users and circles within the program. This eliminates spamming of registration, bogus circles, inactive circles, bogus nations or incorrectly registered users. There's also a sophisticated 'Report' function built in to the program should any problems arise which the moderation team has not picked up on. This means that any problems reported by the user can be dealt with effectively and efficiently.

Rather than me attempting to explain its simplicity and ease of use, it's far better that you try it first hand. Here's the link;

[size="5"][url="http://cn-trading.com/"]CN Trade Centre[/url][/size]

We are aware that there may be suggestions, bug reports and grievances. We would appreciate it if you reported them here so that we can deal with them pronto. We're interested in continuing the development of the program and honing its efficiency, so your comments are most welcome.

You'll also find us on IRC; #cntc on Coldfront.

Cheers,
Smithy

OcUK o/

[Schattenmann]

Let me just sing cn-trading.com's praises here for a second. We've been testing with Red Dawn for a couple months to get input etc, and I have to say that I am completely blown away by this feat. Smithy and OcUK have created a truly revolutionary tool in CN Trade Centre with the ability to absolutely change the way we trade. Here are some screenshots of the program itself to give you an idea of the interface.

This is the home screen. When you log in, you see all open trade circles. As you can see in this shot, you can filter based on color.
[img]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2254/screenshot20100314at033e.png[/img]

When you've joined a circle, your home screen display's its infor to the right of the page as seen below. The circle roster is displayed to the right, and its benefits are placed at the bottom of the screen.
[img]http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3325/screenshot20100314at033.png[/img]

Aside from the circle info being displayed on your home screen once you've joined it, you can also enter the circle's page itself. Here, you will find a report button. If there is any issue with your circle (ie an unresponsive member) you can file a report which will be handled by a CNTC mod.
[img]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3672/screenshot20100314at033g.png[/img]

Here is a detail of the report process:
[img]http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9135/screenshot20100314at033l.png[/img]
In this case, we would remove the unresponsive trader so that someone who is active can fill the spot.

Please note that CNTC is very concerned with keeping the trade pool clean. Accounts are automatically approved, but mods check new accounts as they are added. So, make sure that when you register, you provide accurate info (nation link, name, color, etc). If the info on an account does not jive, the account will most likely be deleted (you can re-register with corrected info). You must have a harbor to participate.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Schattenmann]

<Jonathan_Brookbank> Do I get a message when the circle is completed or what?
<Schattenmann> yep
<Jonathan_Brookbank> OK
<Schattenmann> All users in the circle will get an email

[lonewolfe2015]

Can we create an admin/mod system for trade coordinators to put in members and create circles?

I have several circles for instance, but they can't all sign up and organize it themselves.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='13 March 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1268537869' post='2225028']
Can we create an admin/mod system for trade coordinators to put in members and create circles?

I have several circles for instance, but they can't all sign up and organize it themselves.
[/quote]

This ^

It makes no sense if everyone has to register cuz alot of nations will be left out or trade circles will be ignored if resources are missing because it wont give the correct BRs so people will be left to wonder what all the resources are...

So, if alliance leaders can designate themselves and a trade representative then it would work alot better.

Having to use emails? I dont think it will work. This will be basically like James' CN Trade finder where if people have to register.

It should be where I can put in the resources/nation ID number of all the nations I want to submit for a trade circle and when it gets filled then I get the email and I can contact my people and the others that it is ready.

Also, there needs to be away for knowing if a trade circle is dead or not and for it to auto-delete. The creator or a member of the trade circle should have to go in check the circle and click "keep" for it to continue to show and only members of the pending trade circle would be able to "keep" it alive, otherwise if none bothered to check it then it would get deleted.

I'll look into it, looks nice but we shall see...

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='13 March 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1268537869' post='2225028']
Can we create an admin/mod system for trade coordinators to put in members and create circles?

I have several circles for instance, but they can't all sign up and organize it themselves.
[/quote]
Smithy will have to answer that for you. I will say that the entire idea of this program is to simplify and streamline the trade process. In my experience, "trade coordinators" are of little-to-no value; they remove the trading nation from the process, and you end up with people who are ignorant and when they get the trade offers, don't know what's going on and ignore them. CNTC as it stands requires the active participation of anyone that wants to trade--this means that EVERY user is a user that is [i]actually, [u]actively[/u], looking[/i] for trades. In the event that someone goes asleep at the wheel, the report function (or contact with a % or above in #cntc) allows for rapid correction of the issue.

[quote name='Fernando12' date='13 March 2010 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1268538746' post='2225051']
This ^

It makes no sense if everyone has to register cuz alot of nations will be left out or trade circles will be ignored if resources are missing because it wont give the correct BRs so people will be left to wonder what all the resources are... [/quote]
See above. It makes absolute perfect sense for every trader to create an account. He gets an email when the circle is filled, he can find the circle that fits his needs, and because every circle has its own page, he can link potential partners.

[quote]So, if alliance leaders can designate themselves and a trade representative then it would work alot better.[/quote]
Also see above. I've been a ruler since 2007 and I never heard of "Trade Coordinators" until about a year ago. I think that Trade Coordinator is a fancy title that got made up to make people feel important, and in my personal experience these bureaucrats are useless. Before CN Trade Centre, I spent 4 months trying to get a circle together, and the problem was that Trade Coordinators kept signing up people who had no intention of joining, so every time I thought I was filled, whaddayaknow, I had to go back and find someone to fill that ignorant member's spot.

[quote]Having to use emails? I dont think it will work. This will be basically like James' CN Trade finder where if people have to register.[/quote]
When you say "if" you have to follow it with a "then" clause. I don't know what comparison you are trying to draw between CNTC and James Dahl's trade app. We actually began large-scale testing of CNTC about a week before James posted a link to his app. I knew that CNTC was ready to roll out, so I never looked at James' but I can tell you that the only similarity between the two is that they are both trade finders; all similarities stop there. This is a revolution. It's the next phase, new wave, dance craze.

[quote]It should be where I can put in the resources/nation ID number of all the nations I want to submit for a trade circle and when it gets filled then I get the email and I can contact my people and the others that it is ready.[/quote]
Absolutely not.
Why would you put a middleman between trading nations? It is far superior for the trader to know who he is trading with so that he can communicate directly with them. The trader in this system picks the circle that is best for himself instead of getting assigned by an aloof bureaucrat who does not know his individual needs. If a trader does not see a desireable circle, he can ask a mod to create one via #cntc (if a person doe snot usually use IRC, there is a handy link that will automatically put him in #cntc on the left side of the page). Why place the responsibility of coordinating contact on one person who may be unreliable? No; instead, the system automatically notifies [i]everyone all at once[/i] when the circle is ready.

[quote]Also, there needs to be away for knowing if a trade circle is dead or not and for it to auto-delete. The creator or a member of the trade circle should have to go in check the circle and click "keep" for it to continue to show and only members of the pending trade circle would be able to "keep" it alive, otherwise if none bothered to check it then it would get deleted.

I'll look into it, looks nice but we shall see...
[/quote]
Users cannot create circles so your point is invalid. Users cannot create circles in this system to prevent "drive-by" circles; that is to say, circles that were created by someone who never comes back again. In this system, there is no possibility for a "dead circle." It is impossible for a circle to be dead because it is active until it's filled, you can only see circles you fit in, inactive users are removed by mods, and only as many circles as are needed are ever present.

Virtually every issue with all previous trading systems--systems from whose frame of reference you are arguing--have been addressed and corrected by this system.

[Warzors]

The whole ethos of this program is to work and be as efficient as possible, as simple as possible, but with as many features as possible, many working behind the scenes, and without relying on human intervention anymore than we need to, and it might as well be a google docs effort or any other system that relies on human intervention to work if we end up with the prosperity of the program relying on a large team of mods.

The report system is in place to easily deal with any disruption in the process, automated e-mails are dispatched when a circle is complete, this negates the need for people check the circle unnecessarily, it merely relies on a new member joining, filling a slot, and when it's full, everyone involved will be e-mailed to alert them, without it you'll have nations who don't even realise the circle is complete if they don't check it, introducing another weak human link in the process.

If circles have wildcards present, a nation viewing the circle with a wildcard/s that would bring another bonus resource to that circle, will see the circle with those BRs added, and if they join, all other nations will then see the circle with those BRs added, things like this can be hassle to check manually.

So as you can see, adding a large dose of human dependency into the program is rather diametric to the aim of the program.

[quote name='Fernando12' date='14 March 2010 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1268538746' post='2225051']
trade circles will be ignored if resources are missing because it wont give the correct BRs so people will be left to wonder what all the resources are...[/quote]

This isn't a possibility, unless I'm misinterpreting the statement.

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='14 March 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1268537869' post='2225028']
Can we create an admin/mod system for trade coordinators to put in members and create circles?

I have several circles for instance, but they can't all sign up and organize it themselves.
[/quote]


We could do that, but it will detract from our ethos, entering a few details and joining a circle is no hassle, I can think of few good reasons why someone couldn't do that, and members signing up is ultimately how the program will flourish, this isn't a spread sheet to add members to, this is an automated program with as little human reliance as possible, other than nations who want a trade circle getting involved and signing up.

All suggestions will of course be considered, but I'm just offering the ethos and aim for the program at the moment so hopefully you can see why these things aren't already present, as they would be if we thought they didn't detract from the point of the program.

But we'll see how things progress.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Warzors

[Smithy]

I'm not the only person qualified to answer any questions here. MrWhite has been involved with the development of the program since its inception so will be able to answer most questions. Of course there is also nothing stopping anyone else who has experience with the system to answer any questions.

Failing that I'll do my best to keep up with the thread. Let me know if you need any further clarification Fernando12.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Smithy

[lonewolfe2015]

I understand, I just know I have some members who wouldn't want to register for something, perhaps would forget about it (and wouldn't use an e-mail they check often) or in general don't know what types of circles they need to go for.

Just because someone isn't active and in the know doesn't mean they aren't valuable to trade circles, I've built long standing circles using members who are not incredibly active and understanding of the game but they are committed to playing long term and growing, which is all you really need in a circle partner.

E: This also would allow for more coordinated trading within alliances first, and outside second. As I want as many of my own members trading together until there isn't any of us left to fill holes before I look for outside people.

Edited March 14, 2010 by lonewolfe2015

[Warzors]

As covered by earlier points, this is an automated program, not a google docs spreadsheet or a trade forum, it's not a tool to aid trade departments or trade organisers, it's a tool that renders them obsolete.

I can see that perhaps there is an interest for some who think that they can somehow give their alliance an advantage proportional to the effort 'organisers' put in, and want to do so, but that's not what this program relies on and not how it works, enabling that would only perpetuate the old methods and detract from the main point (and benefits) of the program.

The only thing required from this program is for people who want trades to sign up and join a circle, not wait for someone else to organise it for them, the programming takes care of everything else, we're not in the business of using it to further a party's political gain or anything like that, this isn't a tool that an alliance can turn up to and run their own segregated element of, it's something open for all on an equal footing.

This is a tool for those who want a trade circle, and ultimately with a large enough user base, that will be quick and effortless, and people who rely on someone else to organise their trades are merely losing out and causing themselves hassle as their trade success is ultimately dependent on the apathy or lack of, of whoever is organising the trades, we all know how successful that is when the organisers lose enthusiasm.

This program was made to take away the need for such things, and the flaws of systems dependent on 'trade organisers', which are little more than glorified spread sheets.

[iMatt]

This looks good, implementation is great, the only issue is getting people to encourage their members to sign up for it. It looks awesome.

Something better would be to allow you to make your own circle, where a wildcard in a 3BR is something specific.

[cookavich]

Excellent stuff, OcUK. I hope to see many members of my own alliance taking advantage of this tool in the near future. I thought James Dahl's program was revolutionary, and this blows it out of the water.

[Smithy]

[quote name='iMatt' date='15 March 2010 - 12:29 AM' timestamp='1268613277' post='2225802']
This looks good, implementation is great, the only issue is getting people to encourage their members to sign up for it. It looks awesome.

Something better would be to allow you to make your own circle, where a wildcard in a 3BR is something specific.
[/quote]
Indeed, we're hoping the snowball effect will come in to play soon. Once it starts getting busy we'll be able to gauge the effectiveness of the program.

As for the circle creation issue; there's a system in place for moderators to create circles based on bonus resources, or simply by manually selecting base resources. Allowing players to create their own circle would lead to lots of vacant/inactive circles, this is where other programs fail. Circle creation will have to be reviewed in the future, but at the moment there is no need for users to create their own circles.

[Warzors]

Shameless bump.

[Ogaden]

I prefer my system, but I may be biased

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='28 March 2010 - 02:08 AM' timestamp='1269767321' post='2239073']
I prefer my system, but I may be biased
[/quote]

I've tried them both and I would have to say bias is a big part of your preference.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Biff Webster' date='29 March 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1269893263' post='2240210']
I've tried them both and I would have to say bias is a big part of your preference.
[/quote]

Perhaps.

The biggest difference I can see is that my application entrusts a lot more freedom to the user to create their own circle, and has open registration, while this application has a lot of elements that I chose not to implement in order to keep the application simple.

Edited March 31, 2010 by James Dahl

[Undabaningi Rasticus]

[quote name='James Dahl' date='31 March 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1270074858' post='2242530']
Perhaps.

The biggest difference I can see is that my application entrusts a lot more freedom to the user to create their own circle, and has open registration, [/quote]

Both major flaws if the application is to be run efficiently.


[quote]
while this application has a lot of elements that I chose not to implement in order to keep the application simple.
[/quote]

Elements that have been skilfully coded to make administration of the application efficient with little necessary intervention.

[Astraia]

Knock off the sniping.

[Biff Webster]

Bump

[Biff Webster]

Bump

[Biff Webster]

Bump.

[AndrewHG]

Could do with a chat with someone in #cntc.
Thanks
AndrewHG
MCXA

[AndrewHG]

hmm
Pretty quiet in there last night

Essentially I have a public list of MCXA members seeking Trade Circles http://tinyurl.com/3395x3p I'd like to bulk input it into cn-trading.com

Any opinions?- legal and decent please

Thanks
AndrewHG
MCXA

[Scorponok]

You rock.

You made a great website. Well done.