Why is this the world today?

[flak attack]

[quote name='arentak' date='09 February 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1265752505' post='2171219']
I love and respect TOOL forever. Its got nothing to do with the politics of the day. We were on opposite sides in Karma, but I still praised them for their elite surrendering skill (remember how they got Sparta to to agree to not engage any of their allies as a price for TOOL surrendering?).
[/quote]
That clause was irrelevant and a joke. Sparta was already engaged with the only TOOL ally they were needed on. The idea that TOOL thinks it's a political victory is hilarious.

[Yankees Empire]

TOOL deserves better than you.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='flak attack' date='10 February 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1265782387' post='2172149']
That clause was irrelevant and a joke. Sparta was already engaged with the only TOOL ally they were needed on. The idea that TOOL thinks it's a political victory is hilarious.
[/quote]
Except that Pacifica was never considered an ally by most TOOL members considering the treaty was about a month old by the time the Karma war rolled around, and we only held a PIAT at the time (I say we cause I was a TOOLie back then). It was a political victory, and it's kinda hard to deny it as it kept DT, Sparta, AO and Brig from declaring on a large amount of alliances. (o/ GK's negotiating skills )

TOOL has a solid and dependable membership, whittled down in the Karma war. I doubt many of them will surrender, even if they are an open recruitment alliance - which sadly, brings a lot of inactives and such.

Edited February 11, 2010 by R3nowned

[jerdge]

Dear people posting in this thread.

PHDrillSergeant, after having been replied to with ludicrous suggestions like "go join the GPA" by people that should know very well about the Woodstock Massacre (and, in some instances, despite PHDrillSergeant having already explained that he [i]was[/i] in the GPA [i]during[/i] the Woodstock Massacre) - well - PHDrillSergeant [u]stopped caring about this discussion three days ago[/u].

Considering that PHDrillSergeant had mentioned a simple and obvious fact - that [b]no Nation in War Mode is safe[/b] - and considering that the community horribly failed to understand what he was talking about, let alone addressing it, I can't blame him for having left you all to talk to yourselves.

Cheers.

[kitex]

Alliances treat other alliances as the enemy because, at the end of the day, this is just a virtual version of "The Great Game," with every alliance striving to be #1 and control Digiterra. But, also at the end of the day, it's pretty pointless to try to be the superpower of the Verse because sooner or later someone's going to take your spot.

[Weebland]

[quote name='PHDrillSergeant' date='08 February 2010 - 11:23 AM' timestamp='1265646232' post='2168782']
Dearest people of the world,

I am an old nation. I have been here for a long time, just minding my business.

The other day I was attacked by [url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=182612]another nation[/url]. I had been away a few days so by my return there was little I could do. I sent a message petitioning that this other nation ceasefire, because I could not and would not return fire. There was not reason for innocent people to die.

The nation replied saying it regretted the loss of lives, but it had its orders. It would send surrender terms asap.

The next day I awake to find that this nation has dropped a nuclear weapon onto my people, killing countless innocent people and destroying the environment.

And right afterwards, he sent surrender terms.

Now at this junction I had already stated that I was ready to surrender. There was NO REASON to drop a nuclear weapon. So why would a nation do this? Is its leader simply a murderous killer? This was an unwarranted nuclear strike against a non-nuclear capable nation.

So this leads me to this question: why do we, as alliances, treat every other alliance member on opposing sides as an enemy? If there are 100 nations in an alliance, and seven have offended you, why do the other 93 have to take the fire? I am not out there in world politics, and I am not a leader in my alliance. There is no reason for this kind of behavior, and it leads to needless bloodshed.

I have been though six alliances, each one ending in war. I pray it will end.

Porphyric Hemophiliac
Prime Minister of [url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=40067]Galifrey Seven[/url]

As afterthought: Donations to the rebuilding of Galifrey will be taken at the foreign affairs office in New New York.
[/quote]

Hey, that's our game.

And it is only a game. Remember that.

[Ark Raven]

Dear friend why fight for a nation of people when you can fight for billions and trillions of people, the people of your allies, those who are willing to give their life for you.

Fight for your friends, fight for your allies, not just for your nation, that will get you nowhere dear.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='flak attack' date='08 February 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1265653681' post='2168900']
No, don't. GPA doesn't need cowards that won't fight when needed.
[/quote]
With all due respect, GPAers debated whether defending themselves was a violation of neutrality or not, and a lot of them never returned fire because they thought it was. I mean there's "cowardly" and there's stupid, but give the guy credit he decided to fight back for once.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Adrian LaCroix]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='11 February 2010 - 05:16 AM' timestamp='1265883401' post='2174443']
Except that Pacifica was never considered an ally by most TOOL members considering the treaty was about a month old by the time the Karma war rolled around, and we only held a PIAT at the time (I say we cause I was a TOOLie back then). It was a political victory, and it's kinda hard to deny it as it kept DT, Sparta, AO and Brig from declaring on a large amount of alliances. (o/ GK's negotiating skills )

TOOL has a solid and dependable membership, whittled down in the Karma war. I doubt many of them will surrender, even if they are an open recruitment alliance - which sadly, brings a lot of inactives and such.
[/quote]

We were going to attack one of TOOL's allies?

[flak attack]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='11 February 2010 - 05:16 AM' timestamp='1265883401' post='2174443']
Except that Pacifica was never considered an ally by most TOOL members considering the treaty was about a month old by the time the Karma war rolled around, and we only held a PIAT at the time (I say we cause I was a TOOLie back then). It was a political victory, and it's kinda hard to deny it as it kept DT, Sparta, AO and Brig from declaring on a large amount of alliances. (o/ GK's negotiating skills )[/quote]
DT was already fighting TPF, Sparta was already fighting NPO. The other's but have been fighting another alliance or two, but the point is that all those alliances were already in hand. By the time TOOL surrendered, it was obvious who was winning and reserves had already been applied where needed. Sparta, DT, AO and Brig weren't needed elsewhere, so the term was pointless.

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='12 February 2010 - 07:09 PM' timestamp='1266019785' post='2178360']
With all due respect, GPAers debated whether defending themselves was a violation of neutrality or not, and a lot of them never returned fire because they thought it was. I mean there's "cowardly" and there's stupid, but give the guy credit he decided to fight back for once.
[/quote]
No, GPA barely fired back because we were terrible at fighting. There were a handful of crazies that didn't fight back, but the alliance as a whole tried to do so. We just had no clue what we were doing.m When I left GPA (this was almost a year ago) the biggest reservation most members had about the alliance was picking up a large number of infra farmers. If you had a history of surrendering, you pretty much couldn't get in GPA. I would assume it's still that way

[Kzoppistan]

I, for one, deplore the mass murder of your citizens and lament that you have suffered such a fate at the hands of a homicidal maniac. My nation would gladly send you aid for your terrible losses, but I'm afraid we are fending off a similar fate.

As to your question:
[quote name='PHDrillSergeant' date='08 February 2010 - 12:23 PM' timestamp='1265646232' post='2168782']
So this leads me to this question: why do we, as alliances, treat every other alliance member on opposing sides as an enemy? If there are 100 nations in an alliance, and seven have offended you, why do the other 93 have to take the fire? I am not out there in world politics, and I am not a leader in my alliance. There is no reason for this kind of behavior, and it leads to needless bloodshed.
[/quote]

The answer is quite simple: as creatures mostly defenseless in this competitive world, equipped with natural weapons so puny as that even the common wolf could easily kill us, our adaptive edge has developed through the evolutionary process to be one of cooperation with our brethren. United, we can accomplish much that many creatures cannot, thus we survive and prosper. This selective pressure on one trait has developed us into the social creatures we are today.

Paralleling and supporting this development of the social strata are the mechanisms of "In-Group/Out-Group", "Group Think" and "Prejudice". Each serve to prepare those in the same group for identifying who is in their group and who is not, coordination through the motivation of adopted values, and the cultivation of repulsion/hate of those not in the group. All have developed because it is what enable our ancestors to survive.

Those that attack you are under the subjection of group think and are doing what they are told, in order to be accepted into their group.

In short, you are being maliciously attacked, despite no provocation on your own part, because it is in the evolutionary interest of those who attack you.

Good luck.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Kzoppistan

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='14 February 2010 - 05:39 AM' timestamp='1266089974' post='2179553']
I, for one, deplore the mass murder of your citizens and lament that you have suffered such a fate at the hands of a homicidal maniac. My nation would gladly send you aid for your terrible losses, but I'm afraid we are fending off a similar fate.

As to your question:


The answer is quite simple: as creatures mostly defenseless in this competitive world, equipped with natural weapons so puny as that even the common wolf could easily kill us, our adaptive edge has developed through the evolutionary process to be one of cooperation with our brethren. United, we can accomplish much that many creatures cannot, thus we survive and prosper. This selective pressure on one trait has developed us into the social creatures we are today.

Paralleling and supporting this development of the social strata are the mechanisms of "In-Group/Out-Group", "Group Think" and "Prejudice". Each serve to prepare those in the same group for identifying who is in their group and who is not, coordination through the motivation of adopted values, and the cultivation of repulsion/hate of those not in the group. All have developed because it is what enable our ancestors to survive.

Those that attack you are under the subjection of group think and are doing what they are told, in order to be accepted into their group.

In short, you are being maliciously attacked, despite no provocation on your own part, because it is in the evolutionary interest of those who attack you.

Good luck.
[/quote]
We are more than common beasts,

Well at least some of us are.

[Amossio]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='13 February 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1266089974' post='2179553']
I, for one, deplore the mass murder of your citizens and lament that you have suffered such a fate at the hands of a homicidal maniac. My nation would gladly send you aid for your terrible losses, but I'm afraid we are fending off a similar fate.

Good luck.
[/quote]


MORE MASS MURDER, MORE NUKES, MORE WAR, this game is built on war, plus someone like him deserves to be nuked again and again until theres nothing more to nuke....

If you think we homicidal maniacs then you hit the spot, yes we are deal with it! after your post , I hope you achieve the same fate as he's going to get!
Individuals such as you and the tool guy deserve what you get, you let your alliance down.

[quote name='Kzoppistan' date='13 February 2010 - 07:39 PM' timestamp='1266089974' post='2179553']

Those that attack you are under the subjection of group think and are doing what they are told, in order to be accepted into their group.

In short, you are being maliciously attacked, despite no provocation on your own part, because it is in the evolutionary interest of those who attack you.

[/quote]

LOL not in the slightlest, yes for a few, but for the majority of people such as myself we attack because we're amigos and we protect each other plus we enjoy mucho festivities glowing green!I'm basked in the green right nao, fun times!

Edited February 17, 2010 by Amossio

[kpcurley]

Not knowing the whole story, I can sort of sympathize with the OP if he clearly demonstrated his intent to surrender, and then was nuked before given the terms then thats a bit frustrating. On the other hand,its war expect to get nuked, and try fighting back for a change.

[Amossio]

[quote name='kpcurley' date='17 February 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1266434764' post='2187783']
Not knowing the whole story, I can sort of sympathize with the OP if he clearly demonstrated his intent to surrender, and then was nuked before given the terms then thats a bit frustrating. On the other hand,its war expect to get nuked, and try fighting back for a change.
[/quote]

When you say you don't know the whole story you hit the spot, several times he said he'd never surrender. Read the topic

[Salmia]

Errr... okay? I don't really understand why you expect relief from someone you intended to surrender to? I'll tell you this: TOOL membership knew going in that we would get no relief from our enemies. We told you this, if you want to jump ship then do it.

We're in this until the end. You're not going to expect relief from our enemies. TOOL did not do anything particular to these people, we did not start this war. We're defending allies, so to expect them to attack only 6 members of a particular alliance wouldn't make any sense in this case. You made a decision to join TOOL and be a member of our community, that means putting your faith in our government.

TOOL voted together to go to war. It is not going to be an easy road, but if you stick with your alliance, you'll at least have support from those in your alliance the best you can. If you surrender, you really expect mercy? This is a war, they do not care about your circumstances. There are no set standards. This thread isn't going to get you mercy from them.

And in general, anyone who intends to surrender is labeled not worthy by opponents anyways, so they tend to not be treated well. This is a war, don't expect mercy during it is all I can say.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Salmia

[Amossio]

well said, TOOL fought well, glad to have known you guys