Kzoppistan Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) stuff One: You are absolutely correct. The 4 alliances that are currently dog piling TPF with out any attempt at diplomatic overtures are not Karma. I agree with you there. They are some sort of new political arrangement that seems very different from Karma and who's M.O. is to sneak attack alliances to keep them down so they don't become a threat. Perhaps this de-facto bloc should be called The New Menace, since you never know if, at any minute, they're going to break the calm of peace and unexpectedly strike you or anyone else they can conjure up a dubious CB with. Two: (Isn't needed since point one takes care of that.) Three: No, not an unbiased politically motivated attempt to disparage a whole lot of people at once at all. Sounds more like a call out so that MK won't feel so bad at watching 4 members of The New Menace, their allies, try to put their boot on the neck of their old enemy. Four: Four: I'm not going to take any time here to address or defend the CB as presented by Athens and RoK That's probably a good thing. Too bad you didn't do what you said you were going to do but tried to slip in your own spin at the last minute.tl;dr: I address a bunch of boo-hooing and pr wrangling by an biased blood thirsty war monger, hiding under the cloak of past deeds and looking for a cause to get into. In closing: Maybe you don't even need a valid reason to jump in this conflict, perhaps you should just attack TPF, and get your tech, too? You could just use Athens CB, since it doesn't really matter anymore what it is. *edit: corrected some spelling and som-The New Menace! Edited December 30, 2009 by Kzoppistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der_ko Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Sit back and enjoy the show. It's going to be grand. Doubtful. Not that I doubt your strength, it's actually the quite opposite, you are too strong. After the first round of wars you will have knocked most of your enemies out of range where you can effectively fight them. After that "Karma" and "Hegemony" can ignore you and keep fighting and all you can do to influence the war is send a little aid. When or if (I have no clue what your plans are) you enter the war will in the end not influence the outcome much. TPF and anyone defending them will still lose. Edited December 30, 2009 by der_ko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) *edit: Redacted Furthermore, yeah. Rabble rabble! Edited December 30, 2009 by Kzoppistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avernite Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Doubtful. Not that I doubt your strength, it's actually the quite opposite, you are too strong. After the first round of wars you will have knocked most of your enemies out of range where you can effectively fight them. After that "Karma" and "Hegemony" can ignore you and keep fighting and all you can do to influence the war is send a little aid. When or if (I have no clue what your plans are) you enter the war will in the end not influence the outcome much. TPF and anyone defending them will still lose. Somehow, if we achieve that, I would not be too unhappy. If truely every single other upper tier in this war gets wiped out I would be quite happy, and I think it would have quite some effect on the entire war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der_ko Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Somehow, if we achieve that, I would not be too unhappy. If truely every single other upper tier in this war gets wiped out I would be quite happy, and I think it would have quite some effect on the entire war. I suppose not, but I'm so bored out of my mind I wouldn't be too unhappy !@#$%* slapping "Hegemony" around for a couple of months. OOC: This game needs a reset and soon. A huge number of people have reached a point where there is absolutely nothing left to do but horde money. For them war is neither tacticaly challenging nor dangerous with modern sized warchests and military wonders. Not even close to how exciting and fun war was back in days of the great wars. Perhaps that's why Citadel has had a number of rogues lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Believland Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 I was going to make a long drawn out post quoting a bunch of people. I then found it moronic. Obviously I'm not going to be changing WC's mind any time soon, nor the other naysayers. So I'm going to wish everyone a happy new years. And a word of advice: Don't fret over when TPF's allies respond. Try not to goad, I'm sure you'll find out sooner or later. Warm Wishes, BEazy PS: I hope you all burn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 To the OP: I'm sorry but patience is a devine virtue. We're terribly sorry to have been an inconvienience to your plans but a CB'less war on Christmas really isn't very festive and wasn't ideal for us; as IRON is into giving big it takes us a long time to open our presents. We're currently cleaning up our wrapping paper please bear with us. We have also been contmeplating just saving the attack on TPF and using it as a CB when convienient but this discussion has been hindered by merry making and champagne. We're very sorry that you think so lowly of us but your post was actually more friendly than you were in the Q&A we had. I guess then we must have actually gone up in your estimations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o-dog Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 What an arrogant and ego stroking OP, fresh from the school of Revanche Rhetorics. Supercomplaints indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) All I can say to the OP is laugh and be happy that Zenith wasn't the one with the leak. Also, patience is a virtue, rabble rabble, etc. Also, nice tantrum, Archon. Someone should really buy you the pony you've always wanted. Edited December 30, 2009 by Duncan King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) In closing: Maybe you don't even need a valid reason to jump in this conflict, perhaps you should just attack TPF, and get your tech, too? You could just use Athens CB, since it doesn't really matter anymore what it is. On the topic of treaties, any member of SF/C&G are entitled to jump into the war, as their blocs are MADPs so nobody should get uptight about them going to war. Three: The amount of crap the allies of TPF have gotten is because nearly 3 full days have elapsed without a peep from any of them. There's a certain expectation of promptness with respect to the honoring of treaties on Planet Bob, and when it takes you three full ****ing days to get yourselves together it's kind of embarrassing. Even if you go on to win, it's still pretty embarrassing. The fact that you failed to address anything, even whether you were analyzing the CB and debating whether to support TPF (or, as the case may or may not be, deciding whether to opportunistically take a shot at various people and/or alleviate boredom), it might not have hurt to have said something. Not a CoC-style cancellation, mind you, but something. What you shouldn't do, though, is magically 180 from your previous stance of this war being evil and the CB being wrong to suddenly lusting for war and whining that it might end before you can enter. You took days to get your stuff together to enter. Don't whine, don't complain. You failed miserably, and you failed your allies by waiting three days. No matter what else happened, you proved you were unready for war and you're utter failures in that regard. Whether you win or lose does not change this fact. And no, I don't care if you were secretly just waiting/hoping/praying to get the support of TOP as a number of folks have claimed quietly in back channels. It's still pretty damn sad. ^^ My opinion exactly, you'd think you'd hear something official from TPF's allies. It doesn't take 3 days to get ready, I would of hoped Zenith would of been in there first, being an ex member/gov of that alliance, I know how they go by honour, they'd be there to defend TPF at the drop of a hat. But sadly they have disappointed me. You might go in eventually, but as Archon said, it’s pretty embarrassing that you've taken this long to get your $@! into gear. Edited December 30, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadScotII Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The thing is, all I see is whining in the OP about not being able to start a war with someone because no one has come to defend TPF yet. Although, MK do not need anyone to enter the war to get a war, as Skippy nicely pointed out for us Athens are tied with MK through a MDAP. Come on, if you can't find a CB to attack the alliance you want to attack at least come out and admit it, instead of moaning about the fact the said alliance has not come in to defend another alliance. Just declare war FFS and stop the moaning - and wait to see if the alliance you want to hit declares on you. [OOC] Keyboard hard men FTW [/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Well if any of them (SF/C&G) are that desperate for war, they might aswell go in via their bloc treaty Edit: Grammar fail Edited December 30, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 ^^ My opinion exactly, you'd think you'd hear something official from TPF's allies. It doesn't take 3 days to get ready, I would of hoped Zenith would of been in there first, being an ex member/gov of that alliance, I know how they go by honour, they'd be there to defend TPF at the drop of a hat. But sadly they have disappointed me. You might go in eventually, but as Archon said, it’s pretty embarrassing that you've taken this long to get your $@! into gear. We're sending cookies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 We're sending cookies. Well thats a lot more than most people have done, so Kudos to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 We're sending cookies. delicious green glowing oatmeal raisin. Yum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kewlleo Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Just wanted to take a few moments, given my once prestigious position, to point a few things out.One: If you call the people assailing TPF "Karma", that makes you folks the "Hegemony." This is a fact, because Karma was a wartime coalition that existed to oppose the Hegemony and ceased to exist afterwards, just as the CoaLUEtion fought the NPO and ~ fought the Unjust Highway. Coalitions don't magically reform (note: the alliances you're calling Karma did not comprise the entirety of Karma), and as they're not really de jure entities in the first place they don't really magically reappear anyway to suit your PR needs. But, on that note... Two: If the crux of your argument (and trust me, most of you *are* pushing this train of thought) is that Karma is as bad, if not worse, than the Hegemony, then you're certainly acknowledging that the Hegemony was bad. However, as per the previous point, you're identifying yourselves as the Hegemony (i.e. the forces that Karma existed to oppose and ceased to exist once defeating). Which means that any time you take a moment to trash on Karma being evil, you're really just trashing on yourselves by transitivity. It's really painful to watch, so please stop. Three: The amount of crap the allies of TPF have gotten is because nearly 3 full days have elapsed without a peep from any of them. There's a certain expectation of promptness with respect to the honoring of treaties on Planet Bob, and when it takes you three full ****ing days to get yourselves together it's kind of embarrassing. Even if you go on to win, it's still pretty embarrassing. The fact that you failed to address anything, even whether you were analyzing the CB and debating whether to support TPF (or, as the case may or may not be, deciding whether to opportunistically take a shot at various people and/or alleviate boredom), it might not have hurt to have said something. Not a CoC-style cancellation, mind you, but something. What you shouldn't do, though, is magically 180 from your previous stance of this war being evil and the CB being wrong to suddenly lusting for war and whining that it might end before you can enter. You took days to get your stuff together to enter. Don't whine, don't complain. You failed miserably, and you failed your allies by waiting three days. No matter what else happened, you proved you were unready for war and you're utter failures in that regard. Whether you win or lose does not change this fact. And no, I don't care if you were secretly just waiting/hoping/praying to get the support of TOP as a number of folks have claimed quietly in back channels. It's still pretty damn sad. Four: I'm not going to take any time here to address or defend the CB as presented by Athens and RoK. The war started, you all are eventually either going to fight or sit out which will either cause me to fight or sit out, so I'm not wasting anyone's time. The fact is, a community was threatened and there are logs to prove it. My ally chose to use military might to ensure no further threats would ensue, and I will defend that decision. So will my alliance. We've been ready for 3 days now. We had over 100 people (out of what...170?) on IRC the last few nights just waiting to ruin someone's day. We're not really afraid of whether we get hit in retaliation or not - it's part of the game, and we'd respect the alliance for (finally) sticking up for its treaties. It's what we're doing, and it's a nice common ground to fight on. So, I'm not posting this to carry over the same damn debates. I'm here to point out some of the flaws I've been seeing and imploring you to stop damaging our brain cells any further. Take it as you will. tl;dr - Karma doesn't exist, you only make yourself look stupid AND evil for saying so, everyone is bugging you because it took 3 days to get it together. Closing note: Even if you have a great strategy, that doesn't invalidate things either. So please don't go on about "just wait" or "oh we'll crush you soon" and please people on the other side stop harping about the sub-85K NS peace mode order. I'm sure you folks will get around to either not declaring or declaring, and then allies will jump in on both sides and we'll have a blast and a half duking it out, some plan will win over the other, and some poor sap will be dubbed a military genius or something. Edit: Changed up a single word that makes people cry for some odd reason. I couldn't agree more, time to get this going, and put ya money where your mouth is. Edited December 30, 2009 by Kewlleo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The thing is, all I see is whining in the OP about not being able to start a war with someone because no one has come to defend TPF yet. Although, MK do not need anyone to enter the war to get a war, as Skippy nicely pointed out for us Athens are tied with MK through a MDAP. Come on, if you can't find a CB to attack the alliance you want to attack at least come out and admit it, instead of moaning about the fact the said alliance has not come in to defend another alliance. Just declare war FFS and stop the moaning - and wait to see if the alliance you want to hit declares on you. I think you replied to the wrong thread. No really, did we read the same op? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) ^^ My opinion exactly, you'd think you'd hear something official from TPF's allies. It doesn't take 3 days to get ready, I would of hoped Zenith would of been in there first, being an ex member/gov of that alliance, I know how they go by honour, they'd be there to defend TPF at the drop of a hat. But sadly they have disappointed me. You might go in eventually, but as Archon said, it’s pretty embarrassing that you've taken this long to get your $@! into gear. The only people that need to hear from TPF's allies are TPF, and i don't see them complaining. So why the hell do you care? Edited December 30, 2009 by mike717 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the rebel Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Nice propaganda as always original poster, one side of the treaty web calls the other "evil karma" and the other side shouts "evil hegemony". The latter I always found amusing being painted on with a thick brush towards NPO and co, when clearly by definition most blocs in the world have a hegemony in them. These two propaganda pieces remain to try and brainwash the world into following one route or another, depending on where the power is between the two split sides, there comes the "your evil <insert propaganda word>". Karma was used as propaganda when it suited your side during the war, so you shouldnt complain about it being twisted and used against the allies fighting under the propaganda after the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TECUMSEH Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Karma speaks and, unsurprisingly, whines. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 The only people that need to hear from TPF's allies are TPF, and i don't see them complaining. So why the hell do you care? So in that case, when TPF's allies declare war on those at war with TPF, they'll let TPF know, and them only? Sorry, had to get very picky there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 so.. this makes tpf alone the hegemony then? That's awfully convinient. I hate when hegemonies are all powerful and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike717 Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) So in that case, when TPF's allies declare war on those at war with TPF, they'll let TPF know, and them only? Sorry, had to get very picky there We have made our intentions quite clear to our treaty partner, and they aren't complaining about it one bit. It's not up to you to decide in what fashion we honor our treaties, and though you might not like it, you don't get to dictate our timeline for fighting by attempting to "call us out". I'm sure some people would have liked us to blindly walk into a slaughterhouse, but that didn't happen, and now people are whining over it. Tough luck, when we declare on someone, then it will involve someone who isn't TPF, and then you'll know. And besides, as our opposition has consistantly let us know time and time again, we dont need to give warning or do silly things like "try diplomacy" before we decide to fight. Edited December 30, 2009 by mike717 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Well, I hope it your plan is worth the wait, it had better be something of epic standards, but it appears a little unorthodox with those already in peace mode :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Good to see the OP at least isn't trying to defend the CB. Maybe he's not totally lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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