LegendoftheSkies Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If every alliance on Planet Bob shared this idea, Bob would be a better place. It would also, more likely, have a larger nation population. More likely it would result in even more useless micro-alliances that are destined to fail (not that I necessarily count Ironwood among them, I'm sure GOD'll be a great protector), but everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 More likely it would result in even more useless micro-alliances that are destined to fail (not that I necessarily count Ironwood among them, I'm sure GOD'll be a great protector), but everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose. Someone should start raiding the sanctioned alliances to kill the ones that just can't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 More likely it would result in even more useless micro-alliances that are destined to fail (not that I necessarily count Ironwood among them, I'm sure GOD'll be a great protector), but everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose. GOD already is a great protector, and I'm very grateful for the help they have provided thus far, but ultimately, it's up to the alliance itself, not its protector, to determine whether or not they'll survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 More likely it would result in even more useless micro-alliances that are destined to fail (not that I necessarily count Ironwood among them, I'm sure GOD'll be a great protector), but everyone's entitled to their opinion I suppose. Well I gotta say I share Darth's sentiment, we had even considered writing pretty much the same clause into our charter, however since we don't allow raiding, we didn't see a need to give our definition of an alliance. I do find it interesting that a member of a fledgling alliance expresses opposition to anything which would encourage new alliances to emerge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I do find it interesting that a member of a fledgling alliance expresses opposition to anything which would encourage new alliances to emerge. I don't oppose new alliances. But see Corp gathered over 30 nations together before even switching AA's and DoE'd with over 700k NS and 3 MDoAP's with some pretty strong alliances. What I oppose is people who just come out of the blue and decide they're going to form an alliance with about 3 other people and then expecting the rest of the world to take them seriously. Certainly leadership skill plays as much of a factor as member count, but even the best will have a hell of a time forming something out of nothing. Hell, it's possible, but it's rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't oppose new alliances. But see Corp gathered over 30 nations together before even switching AA's and DoE'd with over 700k NS and 3 MDoAP's with some pretty strong alliances.What I oppose is people who just come out of the blue and decide they're going to form an alliance with about 3 other people and then expecting the rest of the world to take them seriously. Certainly leadership skill plays as much of a factor as member count, but even the best will have a hell of a time forming something out of nothing. Hell, it's possible, but it's rare. That's not really what you said before, you used the term "useless micro-alliances destined to fail". By criticizing Ironwood's charter, It implies that it is somehow a civic duty of larger alliances to tech-raid those that don't meet their definition of an alliance to save us all the threat and hassle of these "useless micro-alliances" that are the scourge of Planet Bob. In response to your example of the Corporations formation, I just have to say you have a pretty interesting spin on reality. The founders planned, developed and recruited with the blessing of their alliances before declaring themselves an alliance, that's the same as being a small micro-alliance with protection, only you don't have the hassle of having to worry about tech raiders not realizing you're protected. On top of that they always had an exit strategy if things didn't work out, they could go on living their merry lives in their old alliances without any repurcussions of leaving the AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 That's not really what you said before, you used the term "useless micro-alliances destined to fail". By criticizing Ironwood's charter, It implies that it is somehow a civic duty of larger alliances to tech-raid those that don't meet their definition of an alliance to save us all the threat and hassle of these "useless micro-alliances" that are the scourge of Planet Bob. Not to put too fine a point on it, he was criticizing (in an objective manner, no personal offense was taken) a particular policy of the Ironwood clan, not the charter, which is a decision to recognize alliances typically considered too small by general standers (less than five members). I will point out that this policy is obviously self-serving, but had I not believed in the policy itself in the first place, then I technically would not be in an alliance. Secondly, while I do carry a fair amount of pride in my sphere and my own connections that go along with it, I carry no misconception about the relative amount of influence of my small start-up alliance. Common, I have to rely on someone else to help me take care of tech raiders. Granted, that's normal for a small alliance, sure, but you aren't going to change the world with that kind situation. The point is that I have no opposition to extremely small microalliances. However, I would consider it poor form if they proclaimed themselves to be more important then they are. For instance, while I'm sure many in this thread are now aware of the FDA situation, I won't bother making a DOW, unless matters get seriously out of hand. The vast majority of alliances won't really care, and CN will go by probably without noticing what happened. I accept that role happily, knowing full well my relative station in the greater Cyberverse. I consider it a matter of self-awareness of micro alliances, not the role of the greater CN, to know their position and relative influence on Planet Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendoftheSkies Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 In response to your example of the Corporations formation, I just have to say you have a pretty interesting spin on reality. The founders planned, developed and recruited with the blessing of their alliances before declaring themselves an alliance, that's the same as being a small micro-alliance with protection, only you don't have the hassle of having to worry about tech raiders not realizing you're protected. On top of that they always had an exit strategy if things didn't work out, they could go on living their merry lives in their old alliances without any repurcussions of leaving the AA. Except for the other fact that the more strong, experienced and dedicated members you start out with, the more likely you are to succeed and the better chance you have of sticking around and growing. A good example would be the success of alliances like FARK and NPO who immigrated a ton of members from outside the CN world. Member count isn't the only factor, but it's a significant one. There are certainly smallish alliances that can get somewhere in CN, but too often I see people form alliances with no plan, too few supporters, and no idea what they're getting into. I think that issue would only get worse if such a policy as Ironwood's were implemented on a large-scale as the person I responded to suggested. Although I don't particularly take offense to Ferrous' charter. I disagree with it, but like I said it's a matter of opinion, and if he thinks this policy would be of benefit to him, there's no reason he shouldn't pursue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 if he thinks this policy would be of benefit to him, there's no reason he shouldn't pursue it. I sure hope it does, otherwise I wouldn't consider myself to be in an alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrel Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Not to put too fine a point on it, he was criticizing (in an objective manner, no personal offense was taken) a ... snip ... For instance, while I'm sure many in this thread are now aware of the FDA situation, I won't bother making a DOW, unless matters get seriously out of hand. The vast majority of alliances won't really care, and CN will go by probably without noticing what happened. I accept that role happily, knowing full well my relative station in the greater Cyberverse. I consider it a matter of self-awareness of micro alliances, not the role of the greater CN, to know their position and relative influence on Planet Bob. I agree completely with you, except that no DoW against FDA is necessary anyhow, you're defending yourself against FDA they started the war without a Declaration. Except for the other fact that the more strong, experienced and dedicated members you start out with, the more likely you are to succeed and the better chance you have of sticking around and growing. A good example would be the success of alliances like FARK and NPO who immigrated a ton of members from outside the CN world. Member count isn't the only factor, but it's a significant one. Farkistan and NPO would be good examples. You missed my point that the Corporation is not a good example, as they really didn't start out with the 30 nations and 700k NS, that's just corporate spin to claim they did. There are certainly smallish alliances that can get somewhere in CN, but too often I see people form alliances with no plan, too few supporters, and no idea what they're getting into. I think that issue would only get worse if such a policy as Ironwood's were implemented on a large-scale as the person I responded to suggested. Although I don't particularly take offense to Ferrous' charter. I disagree with it, but like I said it's a matter of opinion, and if he thinks this policy would be of benefit to him, there's no reason he shouldn't pursue it. We can agree to disagree, I just don't really see how you are so bothered by people trying and sometimes failing, and see that raiding and destroying them is the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sexy Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I like this. Good to see an old school Marooner still kicking on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Ah so I see this did work out. Good luck, Ferrous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) I hope you succeed with your new alliance, Ferrous Edited November 10, 2009 by James Dahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demon Son Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 brilliant alliance name, nice to see you again Ferrous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 brilliant alliance name, nice to see you again Ferrous! I admit that it took me waaay too long to realize who you were. Thanks for the wishes, good to see old teammates kickin' too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constapatedape Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 i love your flag, just saying good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Welcome to Bob may you prosper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven for Peace Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ferrous, I don't even think I need to wish Ironwood Clan any luck on prosperity because with you as leader, success is sure to come. ROCK ON!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinoTheRoman Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Best of luck Ferrous! MAROON REPRESENT! Hop by #csn whenever you get spare time for a little chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphon88 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 TTK, actually, once upon a time. Dammit how did I miss this thread? Good luck Ferrous, make sure you drop by. I think we still have your old stool in the bar, carefully preserved as you left it. See Maroon is where the cool kids are at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Dammit how did I miss this thread? Good luck Ferrous, make sure you drop by. I think we still have your old stool in the bar, carefully preserved as you left it.See Maroon is where the cool kids are at. How do you know? Does it still have, "I <3 Gran" engraved on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphon88 Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 I dunno, I don't mess with that particular kind of stools...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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