king of cochin Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 According to the current rules with regard to navy RP, we can only have so many ships as we actually do have in the game. I am of the feeling that with regard to submarines at least this rule has to be modified. According to present rules *Your in-game air force is counted as your CNRP airforce. However, once you become a "developed" nation, one plane may count as one squadron. Why cant the same rule be applied with regards to submarines as well? The question arises because for a nation that has 6 aircraft carriers, it would be realistically absurd only to have 6 submarines! Why not make it into 6 submarine squadrons for a developed nation- around 5-8 submarines per squadron? I am presenting here a comparison of various submarine forces to show show absurd it would be to restrict submarine numbers by present system. United States Navy There are currently 11 aircraft carriers, 22 cruisers, 56 destroyers, two littoral combat ships, 30 frigates, 10 amphibious assault ships, two amphibious command ships, nine amphibious transport docks, 12 dock landing ships, 53 attack submarines, 14 ballistic missile submarines, four guided missile submarines, 14 mine countermeasures ships, eight patrol boats, and one technical research ship (military intelligence ship, the USS Pueblo, which is currently held by North Korea). Russian Navy 15 SSBN+8 SSGN+ 17 SSN+ 21SSK+ 7 Auxiliaries Royal Navy 4 SSBN+ 8 SSN / 3 carriers Indian Navy 16 submarines / 1 carrier PLAN 60 subs of various classes / 0 Carriers From this comparison of the largest fleets in real life, cant we see that the present system is grossly unrealistic? If 50 aircrafts can turn into 50 squadrons at modern tech level, why cant a similar change be applicable to submarine forces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I have to agree here, it also allows for more realistic naval battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Fun fact: Modern submarines aren't used for engaging a fleet; They're used to engage convoys and transports and the like, with only light escorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerreyRough Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It should be noted that the RL USA should count as a few CNRP nations (stats-wise) and not just 1 nation. Because not everyone should be a superpower and aim to be #1 D:. Maybe 2-3 IC subs per IG submarine, I can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It should be noted that the RL USA should count as a few CNRP nations (stats-wise) and not just 1 nation. Because not everyone should be a superpower and aim to be #1 D:.Maybe 2-3 IC subs per IG submarine, I can see that. Actually many cnrp nations probably pass the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 For example, the top nations in RP based on their IG stats already count as super powers, like Lavo, Lynneth, V the King, mudd. The tech they RP now is also far beyond anything RL USA has. So we have a system with multiple superpowers, a more stable system than the present one with single super power and the cold war type with two polarizing super powers. My suggestion is, make the submarine numbers relative to the other ships that you have, ie, for each Aircraft carrier you get 2 extra subs per the number of subs you already have,ie, you have 5 ACs and 5 Subs you get a total of 15 subs to RP! Like wise a multiple for cruisers and destroyers, for eg: 1:1 So if IG a nation has 5 carriers, 5 destroyers, 6 cruisers, 6 frigates , 5 subs, It can RP a total of 5+10+5+6=26 subs. Also we can devise a system by which lower tech/infra nations which can afford to buy only until Destroyer get to RP diesel submarines according to the above proportion. Any nation which is in tech level to buy a submarine IG would be able to RP nuclear submarines. This would level the playing field as well as bring a fair leveling to the play field. IN short my suggestion, Carrier : 1:2 Destroyer/ Cruiser : 1:1 If nation does not have submarine IG, all subs RPd must be diesel only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Or, since Battleships are in RL obsolete, you could substitute all of them for submarines instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Or, since Battleships are in RL obsolete, you could substitute all of them for submarines instead. Since we only base it off of the number of Navy vessels you have, not the type you have, that wouldn't work. Keep it as is, it prevents over-complicating RPing navies that would probably ensue after this precedent is set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Since we only base it off of the number of Navy vessels you have, not the type you have, that wouldn't work.Keep it as is, it prevents over-complicating RPing navies that would probably ensue after this precedent is set. How would my suggestion not work because of that? What I'm suggesting is that we still keep the numbers, just allow you to substitute certain ships to make up for numbers in other classes of ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 How would my suggestion not work because of that? What I'm suggesting is that we still keep the numbers, just allow you to substitute certain ships to make up for numbers in other classes of ships. No one knows what type of ship another nation has. Say someone has 15 ships, you have no clue what ships they have unless they tell you what 15 ships they have. Therefore, you can't substitute certain ships for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 No one knows what type of ship another nation has. Say someone has 15 ships, you have no clue what ships they have unless they tell you what 15 ships they have. Therefore, you can't substitute certain ships for others. No, but it's not that hard to figure out what they have, if they have the max number of ships they are capable of supporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 No, but it's not that hard to figure out what they have, if they have the max number of ships they are capable of supporting. True, but it's just easier to not try the whole substitution thing anyways since people will just follow the number for RP. For example, the 15 ships again, the person could RP 12 Aircraft Carriers and 3 Destroyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 True, but it's just easier to not try the whole substitution thing anyways since people will just follow the number for RP. For example, the 15 ships again, the person could RP 12 Aircraft Carriers and 3 Destroyers. Most people still RP fairly clse to what they have IG anyway, class and all. That's what my suggestion was based off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordosaur94 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 We're too tiny to own a proper navy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Or, since Battleships are in RL obsolete, you could substitute all of them for submarines instead. They aren't obsolete, it's just that they aren't cost efficient compared to other types of ships. Many RL nations prefer building multiple weaker and smaller yet faster ships than a single stronger and larger, but slower ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 when was the last time CNRP had ship combat that one side didn't go "LOL I SINK UR SHIPS BEFORE THEY CANZ SINKZ MINEZ CUZ I R GOT MIZZILEZ, AND I CAN DO THAT CUZ I READ UR AREPEE AND KNEW YOU WERE GOINGZ TO MIZZILEZ ME INSTEADZ" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarfef Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 More subs. I like (Maybe about 4 submarine CNRP per submarine IG) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Alright, I'm going to throw this idea out. I do not do this because it's the best idea, or because it's something I'll fight for, but because it's an idea, and it exists, and maybe someone else can turn it into something wonderful. Graduated Multiplier for navies. You have brackets based on NS, where, every time you enter the bracket, you can use the multiplier of the bracket. There would only be a few set brackets to make sure multipliers don't get too huge, or too complicated and easy to misinterpret (Like the old Log based tech scale). I'm thinking the best way to do it would be something like this. 0-20,000: No multiplier 20,001-25,000: x2 25,001-35,000: x3 35,001-50,000: x4 50,000-Infinity: x5 That keeps it so no one gets too ridiculous in their navies (I'm going to guess that V the King has the largest navy of anyone in CNRP, and his in game navy is 70, meaning his multiplied would be 350 less than the number of large ships in the Soviet navy during WWII so not all too absurd for one of the most powerful nations in the RP, especially considering the nigh constant war we have). This would also make sure that no one goes insane and gets thousands of ships, but at the same time, you get more realistic numbers. There could, of course, be multiplier brackets higher than the 50,000-infinity cutoff, but it really doesn't seem necessary, because it would just serve to make numbers way too big. Then just add to this the current "The navy is the base number, it is how many ships total, not what kinds of ships" system, and you get a little dash of increased realism. Once again, this isn't me oretending I'm all knowing, and think this is the best, most fool proof plan. It's just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I agree. And not just because I'm top bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted October 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I see reason in ITDA's proposal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 If you don't RP moar ships, would the be more powerful (or better lead or whatever) according to the multiplier or would they be as strong as the multiplied counterparts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 NS can be inflated by land or cruise missiles or even tanks. It doesn't represent how strong your nation is and is generally not the best tool to find how strong or efficient you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Alright, I'm going to throw this idea out. I do not do this because it's the best idea, or because it's something I'll fight for, but because it's an idea, and it exists, and maybe someone else can turn it into something wonderful.Graduated Multiplier for navies. You have brackets based on NS, where, every time you enter the bracket, you can use the multiplier of the bracket. There would only be a few set brackets to make sure multipliers don't get too huge, or too complicated and easy to misinterpret (Like the old Log based tech scale). I'm thinking the best way to do it would be something like this. 0-20,000: No multiplier 20,001-25,000: x2 25,001-35,000: x3 35,001-50,000: x4 50,000-Infinity: x5 That keeps it so no one gets too ridiculous in their navies (I'm going to guess that V the King has the largest navy of anyone in CNRP, and his in game navy is 70, meaning his multiplied would be 350 less than the number of large ships in the Soviet navy during WWII so not all too absurd for one of the most powerful nations in the RP, especially considering the nigh constant war we have). This would also make sure that no one goes insane and gets thousands of ships, but at the same time, you get more realistic numbers. There could, of course, be multiplier brackets higher than the 50,000-infinity cutoff, but it really doesn't seem necessary, because it would just serve to make numbers way too big. Then just add to this the current "The navy is the base number, it is how many ships total, not what kinds of ships" system, and you get a little dash of increased realism. Once again, this isn't me oretending I'm all knowing, and think this is the best, most fool proof plan. It's just a thought. The idea is interesting, but I don't like how it is making the "superpowers" stronger in RP without doing much other than just be large IG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Alright, I'm going to throw this idea out. I do not do this because it's the best idea, or because it's something I'll fight for, but because it's an idea, and it exists, and maybe someone else can turn it into something wonderful.Graduated Multiplier for navies. You have brackets based on NS, where, every time you enter the bracket, you can use the multiplier of the bracket. There would only be a few set brackets to make sure multipliers don't get too huge, or too complicated and easy to misinterpret (Like the old Log based tech scale). I'm thinking the best way to do it would be something like this. 0-20,000: No multiplier 20,001-25,000: x2 25,001-35,000: x3 35,001-50,000: x4 50,000-Infinity: x5 That keeps it so no one gets too ridiculous in their navies (I'm going to guess that V the King has the largest navy of anyone in CNRP, and his in game navy is 70, meaning his multiplied would be 350 less than the number of large ships in the Soviet navy during WWII so not all too absurd for one of the most powerful nations in the RP, especially considering the nigh constant war we have). This would also make sure that no one goes insane and gets thousands of ships, but at the same time, you get more realistic numbers. There could, of course, be multiplier brackets higher than the 50,000-infinity cutoff, but it really doesn't seem necessary, because it would just serve to make numbers way too big. Then just add to this the current "The navy is the base number, it is how many ships total, not what kinds of ships" system, and you get a little dash of increased realism. Once again, this isn't me oretending I'm all knowing, and think this is the best, most fool proof plan. It's just a thought. There is a problem though. RPers can inflate their NS by purposely expanding their IG military. That bracket should be based on infra and maybe tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 NS can be inflated by land or cruise missiles or even tanks. It doesn't represent how strong your nation is and is generally not the best tool to find how strong or efficient you are. There is a problem though. RPers can inflate their NS by purposely expanding their IG military. That bracket should be based on infra and maybe tech. Yah, I can see a change to Infrastructure based brackets. Something like this: 0-4,000: No multiplier 4,001-5,000: x2 5,001-6,000: x3 6,001-7,500: x4 7,501-Infinity: x5 And maybe even toss in a tech requirement for new brackets too, something like this: 0-4,000 Infra, 0-500 tech: No multiplier 4,001-5,000 Infra, 501-1,000 tech: x2 5,001-6,000 Infra, 1,001-2,000 tech: x3 6,001-7,500 Infra, 2,001-3,500: x4 7,501-Infinity Infra, 3,501-Infinity: x5 That would probably be a bit more fair than total NS. As for Voodoo's concern, I've got nothing, it's the same issue that would dog any multiplier put in place, and it's a good point. I guess it would have to be up to everyone else to decide if the trade off is worthwhile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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