Dispatch from ODN and GR

[D34th]

That's a bit different, ODN and CDS didn't have a treaty, let alone an MADP.

We were in the same coalition and the main point is, we started a war together and they left us fighting alone. You think that is ok, I think this is cowardice, let's move on.

[Matthew Conrad]

We were in the same coalition and the main point is, we started a war together and they left us fighting alone. You think that is ok, I think this is cowardice, let's move on.

Once again, that has happened in nearly every large war. You should probably call 3/4 of Bob cowards then, if you wish to hold everyone to that standard.

[Lord Brendan]

Lol Fail comparison. We had an MDoAP with NPO and they started the war so we weren't obligated to active the treaty. And unlike ODN we gave pretty good reasons for the suspension and for the cancelation. Try again.

ODN had treaties with IRON and GGA. You had treaties with NPO and Valhalla. Both of you chose not to honor any obligations with the Hegemony side. Why are the situations different?

[D34th]

Once again, that has happened in nearly every large war. You should probably call 3/4 of Bob cowards then, if you wish to hold everyone to that standard.

Give me 3 examples that Alliances that DOW'ed together in the same thread against the same enemy that surrended separated and I'll recognize that I'm wrong.

Edited September 16, 2009 by D34th

[Matthew Conrad]

Give me 3 examples that Alliances that DOW'ed together in the same thread against the same enemy that surrended separated and I'll recognize that I'm wrong.

Why does it matter whatsoever that two alliances must declare in the same thread? Declaring war in separate threads is the exact same thing. Please don't try to put pointless restrictions on my point. If you want examples, just look at the declarations of war in defense of NPO (Legion, GGA, Valhalla, etc.) in the last war. Many came on the same night and all of them except TPF surrendered before NPO did.

[D34th]

ODN had treaties with IRON and GGA. You had treaties with NPO and Valhalla. Both of you chose not to honor any obligations with the Hegemony side. Why are the situations different?

We chose to stay out of the war. We do not chose what treaties we will be honoring and what treaties what we won't.

See the difference:

The tl:dr of all of this that given the nature of our treaties, Polaris is now largely free of obligations, but I will make our position very clear for everyone, lest you think we are neutral.

1. Polaris supports ALL her allies in this matter(including the New Pacific Order), we acknowledge that our allies are cast onto two different sides, due to obligations, choices and sheer luck.

2. Polaris reserves the right to aid any of her allies financially or militarily BUT pledges to commit equal financial resources to the opposing side of the conflict and such military as required by the situation.

3. Polaris will assist all our allies with diplomacy and use our best endeavors to ensure that this conflict stays focused on the issues at hand, is as fair and equitable as these things can be and that whatever can be done to resolve issues between various parties is done to the best of our ability.

The ODN Senate wishes it be known that we will not be able to support our allies who decide to defend this senseless action We understand and respect their committments, and regret that we may be placed on alternate sides of this dispute. They have been informed of our stance, and we hope to be able to reconcile our differences

Our allies who are not in support of this action can expect our full readiness to defend them. For reference, those treaties which will be enforced include:

Mutual Orange Juicing Obligation - MDoAP with Vanguard

International Got all our members, and all we got was this treaty! - MDP with The International

The Citrus Express - MDP with R&R

Secretary General - Sunstar

Secretary of Defense - Proximus

Secretary of State - Arsenal

Secretary of Economics - Merlin

Secretary of Interior - Yates

Senate XXVIII - Joracy, Cataduanes, Dujek, & Franziskaner

Can you see the difference and why the comparison fail? I hope you can.

Edited September 16, 2009 by D34th

[Poobah]

Give me 3 examples that Alliances that DOW'ed together in the same thread against the same enemy that surrended separated and I'll recognize that I'm wrong.

MHA, NATO, and Atlantis in the UJW.

[SiCkO]

In my eyes, Legion already did. We all know how that ended though.

and as you know we got a viceroy so and a whole new gov, so in a sense we are like ODN

come on one more chance!

Because we are utter scum not worthy of any shred of respect or common courtesy

you guys are still cool as long as you continue to post spam on our forums!

I've been in pretty regular contact with Arsenal ever since he introduced himself as Secretary of State. When he first introduced himself, I told him what he was getting into, even with alliances like mine, who held a treaty with ODN. I told him straight up that nobody in Vanguard cared about ODN's opinion, and that the only reason our treaty was still around was because we got sidetracked by canceling with TOP. I told him we started with a base of former LUE, and LUEnited for Orange isn't forgotten. I told him that ODN was a !@#$% $@! alliance politically. They're a top 8 power in CN, yet they conducted FA like a tentative hermit, afraid to do anything bold or try to carve out their own little niche. I had near constant contact with Arsenal, talking about shaping ODN's FA to be more assertive, and thus what they needed to achieve domestically to make that FA a reality.

seems strange Vanguard would be involved in talks about ODN's FA policy, but its nice to see alliances helping each other out for a change................

Why does it matter whatsoever that two alliances must declare in the same thread? Declaring war in separate threads is the exact same thing. Please don't try to put pointless restrictions on my point. If you want examples, just look at the declarations of war in defense of NPO (Legion, GGA, Valhalla, etc.) in the last war. Many came on the same night and all of them except TPF surrendered before NPO did.

we honored our treaty and pulled out since we were slowly losing. i notice your alliance was one of many to bail on NPO before the war so that you could participate in the beat down. while its a smart move on your part, i dont think its your place to question why we exited the war before NPO

once again congrats to both alliances, may your relationship be long and prosperous.

Edited September 16, 2009 by SiCkO

[Matthew Conrad]

we honored our treaty and pulled out since we were slowly losing. i notice your alliance was one of many to bail on NPO before the war so that you could participate in the beat down. while its a smart move on your part, i dont think its your place to question why we exited the war before NPO

First off, we were always going to protect our friends in SF regardless. We made it clear long before the war that we wouldn't support a war of aggression against them. If you want to open up this discussion, I have no qualms with proving you wrong so feel free.

Second and most important of all, please don't comment on my posts if you lack basic reading comprehension. Please point to me anywhere in my post where I commented on why your alliance left the war. Next time, try not to look the fool when trying to throw cheap shots at me.

Thanks.

[Sandwich Controversy]

MHA, NATO, and Atlantis in the UJW.

I think you missed the second part of the sentence, as they were all in ~. I mean, they all broke MADPs to do it, but they were ~.

[General Scian]

Person A: Dude, I'm bored.

Person B: Me too, CyberNations is getting boring.

A: Hey I got an idea, let's all throw mud at each other in a thread about ODN and GR.

B: GOOD IDEA! I see no logical fallacy in that idea whatsoever.

A: BOO ODN bailed on us last year!

B: Well Sparta bailed on NPO more recently.

A: Ya, but you surrendered too early.

Should we skip right to "yo' mama" insults?

[SiCkO]

First off, we were always going to protect our friends in SF regardless. We made it clear long before the war that we wouldn't support a war of aggression against them. If you want to open up this discussion, I have no qualms with proving you wrong so feel free.

Second and most important of all, please don't comment on my posts if you lack basic reading comprehension. Please point to me anywhere in my post where I commented on why your alliance left the war. Next time, try not to look the fool when trying to throw cheap shots at me.

Thanks.

my apologies, i didnt mean to take cheap shots, i just was pointing out that the legion exiting the war before NPO was not cowardice, merely that we could not sustain a state of constant warfare with ragnablock

Edited September 16, 2009 by SiCkO

[Mathias]

Person A: Dude, I'm bored.

Person B: Me too, CyberNations is getting boring.

A: Hey I got an idea, let's all throw mud at each other in a thread about ODN and GR.

B: GOOD IDEA! I see no logical fallacy in that idea whatsoever.

A: BOO ODN bailed on us last year!

B: Well Sparta bailed on NPO more recently.

A: Ya, but you surrendered too early.

Should we skip right to "yo' mama" insults?

No, we should wait for someone to try to be funny by explaining the arguments in an edgy and ironic fashion that truly makes a mockery of the parties involved.

[General Scian]

No, we should wait for someone to try to be funny by explaining the arguments in an edgy and ironic fashion that truly makes a mockery of the parties involved.

Hail me?

At your service sir.

[SiCkO]

Person A: Dude, I'm bored.

Person B: Me too, CyberNations is getting boring.

A: Hey I got an idea, let's all throw mud at each other in a thread about ODN and GR.

B: GOOD IDEA! I see no logical fallacy in that idea whatsoever.

A: BOO ODN bailed on us last year!

B: Well Sparta bailed on NPO more recently.

A: Ya, but you surrendered too early.

Should we skip right to "yo' mama" insults?

id be glad too skip straight to them however my MoFA would roast me alive, just go on our forums and we will have a proper one someday

sorry for being off topic please continue

[Matthew Conrad]

my apologies, i didnt mean to take cheap shots, i just was pointing out that the legion exiting the war before NPO was not cowardice, merely that we could not sustain a state of constant warfare with ragnablock

That's just fine, as I never accused Legion of leaving because of cowardice. My actual point was that most people surrender early in a coalition and that it is not indicative of cowardice (granted they don't surrender after 3 days of fighting).

[SiCkO]

That's just fine, as I never accused Legion of leaving because of cowardice. My actual point was that most people surrender early in a coalition and that it is not indicative of cowardice (granted they don't surrender after 3 days of fighting).

ah thank you for clearing that up

[lazyox]

great to be friends GR ...

as for you ODN bashers . keep dedging up altered past's every house has skeleton's in the closet , it is how the house is kept today that matters

as for the next one who attacks our ally's there is no optinional in the war you will get . Just a whole lot of pain .

[SupremePrince]

I believe that the ODN has changed for the better. They realized and admit their mistakes in the past. Everyone make mistakes sometime. Its part of our nature. I'm sure the ODN learned from their mistake and won't repeat it again.

However, I also understand why some Polaris members may still be upset. They did consider ODN very closed friends and allies in the past. Of course they would be upset when a friend whom they trusted to have their back decided to cancel treaty before the war.

Regardless, I love all parties here.

NpO

GR

ODN

[Cataduanes]

I remember GWIII, I was in CDS and remember how ODN DOW'ed GOONS with us then surrended alone and left CDS fighting alone. Very honorable...

See what ODN used to do even in losing side?

Sigh, i think the whole world and its mothers knows what your attitude is D34th, so i ask you sincerely what can i do to try alleviate that bitterness in your heart? can we not do anything at all seeing as dialogue has $%&@ all effect on you? or are you content to remained visibly embittered till the end of Planet Bob?. Which would be a shame, bitterness can be very unhealthy you know

Should we start a club or is there already one started?

I thought you already had a club set up???

Those of us from the Mesozoic are happy to wait and see how an alliance's actions bear out instead of judging it on its press releases.

O hai thar Zombie.

I was in ODN and left to fight for NpO back then. Here I am now representing the ODN on a global scale in government. It's been over a year now, and we've very obviously developed new values we should have had before. Drop it.

It matters little to D34th that you and others fought alongside Polaris, it matters little to D34th that many of us have a history of honouring obligations no matter the odds, all that matters to D34th is ensuring the world understands how much he hates ODN (AS if nobody had worked that out already).

Edited September 16, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Franklin]

Wow what a lively thread. I will not comment on it however and will reserve opinions for other places.

Anyways! A most EXCELLENT treaty and I am happy to see it come to pass, good work everyone!

[Cataduanes]

I believe that the ODN has changed for the better. They realized and admit their mistakes in the past. Everyone make mistakes sometime. Its part of our nature. I'm sure the ODN learned from their mistake and won't repeat it again.

Thanks, and yes we are aware of our past errors but apologies and so forth is simply not enough for some, i doubt even our blood would be enough for some.

[SupremePrince]

Thanks, and yes we are aware of our past errors but apologies and so forth is simply not enough for some, i doubt even our blood would be enough for some.

np. and before the mods yell at us, let get back to topic which is not about ODN's past but about GR and ODN treaty.

Congrats guys!

[Chalaskan]

I believe from GWII til Kharma, ODN has had a stake in being a "survivalist" alliance. With that said, I think they are making a change to where they will stand by their truest friends.

I think GR can be one of them...congrats guys.

[Feanor Noldorin]

It matters little to D34th that you and others fought alongside Polaris, it matters little to D34th that many of us have a history of honouring obligations no matter the odds, all that matters to D34th is ensuring the world understands how much he hates ODN (AS if nobody had worked that out already).

I should probably stay out of this, but I've seen this particular exchange far too many times:

1. ODN gets insulted
   
2. Cataduanes stands up and says, "Oh yeah? What about me!?!?"
   
3. Insulter says, "yah, you're cool, but your alliance? jeez."
   
4. Cata responds, "Hey, we're doing our best, but we've got some work to do, k?"
   
5. Insulter says, "kk, we'll see"
   

I just can't help myself!