The Neutral Corner of Francoism

[FrancoismofRussia]

Its a bit early, I know, but here is yet another riveting question for all of you veterans because I have noticed some things in different apology threads that were to make one scratch his head.

What is the big hubbub about apologies and why do they seem to be met with animosity and thanks from different parties?

[ooc]MODS: If you wish me to space these out more then please let me know, I don't want to be rule breaking here[/ooc]

[Vilien]

People who tend to get offended by every other thing said to them enjoy apologies, primarily because it makes them feel special.

Others tend to view public apologies as a waste of space. They typically happen for events that were never public or well known in the first place. If someone wants an apology, there's certainly no more sincere way of delivering it than in private. Any other method is solely intended as an exercise in gratuitous muscle flexing.

[BamaBuc]

I think some people feel that public apologies are demanded/given much more than needed. For example, one might find a public spectacle to be worthy of a public apology, and a private spectacle not so. That's what tends to happen though... Someone gets mad about some private or semi-private debacle and demands a public apology.

-Bama

[Timeline]

its a way to make people in power to feel more important, a forced apology is a joke.

In fact the only real apology is done in private.

[mythicknight]

People who tend to get offended by every other thing said to them enjoy apologies, primarily because it makes them feel special.

Others tend to view public apologies as a waste of space. They typically happen for events that were never public or well known in the first place. If someone wants an apology, there's certainly no more sincere way of delivering it than in private. Any other method is solely intended as an exercise in gratuitous muscle flexing.

Stop reading my mind, Vilien

[Owned-You]

People who tend to get offended by every other thing said to them enjoy apologies, primarily because it makes them feel special.

Others tend to view public apologies as a waste of space. They typically happen for events that were never public or well known in the first place. If someone wants an apology, there's certainly no more sincere way of delivering it than in private. Any other method is solely intended as an exercise in gratuitous muscle flexing.

/Topic.

This post is all that is needed...nobody else post; lest I smite thee!

[Nintenderek]

If it's something that happened in private, the apology should be in private. If it's something that happened in public, then perhaps the apology should also be public so that everyone knows its settled. It's that simple.

[Mathias]

Apologies are completely pointless. They're usually insincere, especially when done in public. If you have to force someone to apologize, do you really think they mean it?

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Apologies are completely pointless. They're usually insincere, especially when done in public. If you have to force someone to apologize, do you really think they mean it?

Basically this. TDSM8 was forced to write an apology for supporting BAPS when they went nuclear in the BAPS war. Did we care that BAPS went nuclear int he BAPS war? No, not at all, we fully supported it. However, we would have been Perma ZIed without a "written apology" for it. It was just another bureaucratic loop to jump through.

[ChairmanHal]

I'm going to have to go against the general commentary thus far and say that public apologies can be highly effective in specific circumstances. How many times have you heard people utter the phrase, "if they would just acknowledge what they did and apologize for it, I would feel better about the situation"? It's not necessarily a "dominance" or "muscle flexing" thing, though I acknowledge that at times it gets used for that purpose on Planet Bob.

When done correctly, it can dispel rumors about both parties involved, it can explain actions, but most importantly it starts the healing processes between two parties. When forced or done insincerely, it can start rumors, confuses the issues between parties ("well if they didn't do it, why did they apologize for it?"), and generates ill-will between parties that simply does not go away.

I would like to see more public apologies...sincere ones that is, such as the one issued recently by the Sith Empire. Staged apologies by individual nation rulers for their actions, not so much. I think it is generally acknowledged someone is sorry (sorry they got caught up in a losing fight, sorry they did something rash) without the public spectacle.

[Mathias]

I would like to see more public apologies...sincere ones that is, such as the one issued recently by the Sith Empire.

If they didn't have such a disadvantage in the war, do you really think they would have apologized? You never see winners apologizing, and if that happens, I will have to agree with you (at least to some extent).

[FrancoismofRussia]

What about the recent apologies to RAD? What sparked those then? And why do they claim to be serious when, as you say, individual apologies are worthless?

[Bob Janova]

They're mostly a power play, a public symbol of defeat, and a close relative of 'taking responsibility for a war' (e.g. MK in the 'NoCB' war, or Echelon in the Karma war). It means the victors can link to it, and say 'Look, they apologised for starting all this trouble, that shows that we were just being defensive', and also it makes it very clear in a non-war situation who has been forced to back down and who has 'won'.

In a few situations an unprompted public apology is the right thing, if someone has made a mistake that has had public consequences.

[Thorgrum]

What is the big hubbub about apologies and why do they seem to be met with animosity and thanks from different parties?

Forgiveness is vastly overrated, as is the assumption of sincerity within an apology a symbol of naiveté. While it’s very cynical to say this it’s likely the answer to your question.

[Fort Pitt]

Apologies can sometimes be good, but only if the other person means it, but most of the people on this world wouldn't apologize for rolling your alliance for lulz.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

I'm going to have to go against the general commentary thus far and say that public apologies can be highly effective in specific circumstances. How many times have you heard people utter the phrase, "if they would just acknowledge what they did and apologize for it, I would feel better about the situation"? It's not necessarily a "dominance" or "muscle flexing" thing, though I acknowledge that at times it gets used for that purpose on Planet Bob.

When done correctly, it can dispel rumors about both parties involved, it can explain actions, but most importantly it starts the healing processes between two parties. When forced or done insincerely, it can start rumors, confuses the issues between parties ("well if they didn't do it, why did they apologize for it?"), and generates ill-will between parties that simply does not go away.

I would like to see more public apologies...sincere ones that is, such as the one issued recently by the Sith Empire. Staged apologies by individual nation rulers for their actions, not so much. I think it is generally acknowledged someone is sorry (sorry they got caught up in a losing fight, sorry they did something rash) without the public spectacle.

See, I agree with you that apologies can be good things, however, my point is on Planet Bob they usually are not. When someone sincerely apologizes for their wrong doings because they feel bad about it, yes, it is very helpful. However, on Planet Bob, they are almost always forced and approved by the victor, making them entirely meaningless other than to demoralize the already defeated opponent.

[Gn0xious Jr]

In the past, forced apologies seemed to be used as a way to "justify" the aggressor's actions, when the actions were based around inaccuracies. The forced apology would be a way to try and rewrite the history, making it seem as thought the aggressor was correct.

/me apologizes for his ramblings and punches another hole in the wall for the noCB war...