Alright, guys. Listen up.

[Madame Unicorn]

Most of the CNRP players have seen Sargun's thread. I dont know what people's opinion on the matter is, but this is irrelevant.

All the OOC comments that are being made in that thread have NO relevance anymore, to anything. Sure, I'm hypocritical, I've made OOC comments there. IC MU disagrees with the 'invasion'. OOC, I dont care anymore. I really don't. Because all the OOC comments that you seem to want to make ALL THE TIME have ruined it.

You're ruining CNRP with your petty and inane comments when they aren't needed AT ALL.

So what if Sargun wanted to invade? So what if it was wrong. STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT. What Sargun does IC is his business, and also the business of the other person he's engaging with. Why do we need to have 50 million comments on how you disagree and how %^ this is OOC.

Seriously. We all need to have a decent look at how we're roleplaying and how we're treating each other. Derailing threads with your OOC flaming and tantrum throwing wont get you anywhere and it certainly wont make anyone else respect you.

CNRP, I believe, is a priviledge given to us by the mods. We NEED to start getting ourselves into line before they take the RP ability away from us. We NEED to give new players a chance. We NEED to be a bit more decent towards one another.

I've had talks with people over IRC about how this place is going to the dogs with the wars and fighting and just petty child-like behaviour. Because yeah, we are acting like children. And children aren't allowed on the internet are they?

I'm not asking everyone to get along. I'm not asking everyone to be BFFs. I'm asking for more decency, more courtesy, and less OOC flaming.

You're not doing anyone any favours by being all 'awesome' OOC because you raged. It's not cool.

*sigh* I dont care if you dont like this rant. It's about time someone grew some and actually spoke up about the issues at hand.

[Markus Wilding]

Listen to this woman. She knows well.

EDIT: Other than that, not a whole lot I can do to really add to this...

Edited September 2, 2009 by N Reeki

[Tahsir]

I haven't even read the thread yet. Should I bring popcorn?

Edit: lol I already see fail. Did Krieg just promise Cruise and Ballistic missiles without having them in game?

Edited September 2, 2009 by Tahsir Re

[freakwars]

Who is Sargun invading?

[Tahsir]

Who is Sargun invading?

I think he invaded two nations in Africa to make his map claims IC legit. Aka he wanted that spot and is taking it IC.

[Yawoo]

Well I don't mind all the wars that pop up but all the OCC shenanigans really does need to stop. Handel it IC or take the OCC comments to PM or IRC.

[Elrich von Richt]

OOC: The next generation of idiocy.

[JerreyRough]

On one hand, I'm against players making rebellions inside of other peoples territories without their prior consent; on the other, I'm for wars that are spontaneous.

I agree with the "more decency, more courtesy, and less OOC flaming" though. But then again, decency has to be started somewhere and it is always best to start it ASAP (I meant before the OOC flame war, before others came in); else its like the whole "You hurt me. I hurt you." "You hurt me. I hurt you." etc. (If you don't get what I mean, well, then ignore everything after "But then again..."). I would say more, but this is Sargun we're talking about.

[loannes]

I agree with MU. If it happens IC, let it stay IC. It gets out of hand when an IC war or feud spills to OOC. See: Uber and the ex-Nords

[Centurius]

Most of the CNRP players have seen Sargun's thread. I dont know what people's opinion on the matter is, but this is irrelevant.

All the OOC comments that are being made in that thread have NO relevance anymore, to anything. Sure, I'm hypocritical, I've made OOC comments there. IC MU disagrees with the 'invasion'. OOC, I dont care anymore. I really don't. Because all the OOC comments that you seem to want to make ALL THE TIME have ruined it.

You're ruining CNRP with your petty and inane comments when they aren't needed AT ALL.

So what if Sargun wanted to invade? So what if it was wrong. STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT. What Sargun does IC is his business, and also the business of the other person he's engaging with. Why do we need to have 50 million comments on how you disagree and how %^ this is OOC.

Seriously. We all need to have a decent look at how we're roleplaying and how we're treating each other. Derailing threads with your OOC flaming and tantrum throwing wont get you anywhere and it certainly wont make anyone else respect you.

CNRP, I believe, is a priviledge given to us by the mods. We NEED to start getting ourselves into line before they take the RP ability away from us. We NEED to give new players a chance. We NEED to be a bit more decent towards one another.

I've had talks with people over IRC about how this place is going to the dogs with the wars and fighting and just petty child-like behaviour. Because yeah, we are acting like children. And children aren't allowed on the internet are they?

I'm not asking everyone to get along. I'm not asking everyone to be BFFs. I'm asking for more decency, more courtesy, and less OOC flaming.

You're not doing anyone any favours by being all 'awesome' OOC because you raged. It's not cool.

*sigh* I dont care if you dont like this rant. It's about time someone grew some and actually spoke up about the issues at hand.

Listen to her, she speaks the truth.

Serious guys stop crossing the ooc/ic line, Sargun wanted something and he played it out. Do I agree? Not completely as I believe prior notice would have been nice. Am I going to persecute him OOCly for it? Hell no.

[JerreyRough]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know exactly how it happened, so could someone post a quick recap on the exact events please?

Heh, may as well let these events fly for now, as they most likely won't happen much often after.

[Teriethien]

Treating each other with decency is just as important as not derailing threads with OOC comments. It's the blatant lack of courtesy and decency that triggers flamefests, and it ruins RP as much as OOC commentary. In fact I would say that the two goes hand in hand and are just symptomatic of each other. I'm not going to argue about it since what's done is done, but I find focusing on the OCC comments without looking at what caused them one-sided.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know exactly how it happened, so could someone post a quick recap on the exact events please?

Heh, may as well let these events fly for now, as they most likely won't happen much often after.

Sargun claimed some land that overlapped AmpaSand's claim, AmpaSand said no, Sargun said AmpaSand wasn't on the map so too bad. It was pointed out that the map wasn't definitive so it turned into an IC conflict, Sargun told AmpaSand to go RP rebellions but Mudd pointed out that it's the opposite since Ampa already had claims. So Sargun started an invasion that's ambiguously/misleadingly titled, and AmpaSand wanted to ignore it as Sargun RPing a rebellion in his lands. Sargun continued the RP since it's an invasion, and AmpaSand started propaganda campaigns of massacres, then ragequitted.

Did I miss anything?

Edited September 2, 2009 by Teriethien

[Sarah Tintagyl]

I agree with everything that MU has said and likewise I agree with most everything that has followed in the next ten or eleven posts. However as I said to MU on IRC yesterday, I have zero faith that this thread will change anything at all, I have not played this game as long as some people, but since my joining there has been a plethora of OOC arguments that correspond to almost any trivial aspect of the game. Trust me, OOC flaming doesn't begin at war. It would be one reason for planned conflicts only, but then that would take away the spontaneity of war and the lost for the building of people's empires because hell if I don't want my land taken, you sure as hell aren't going to take it from me.

Some people are good with this, Kevz for instance has been kicked out of at least two if not three countries and still continues to claim and play the game and that is to his credit. The Nords have dealt with being called Nordic mainly due to their previous OOC roles as Nordic players, however on this example I believe there is an extreme gray line for the simple matter that I believe at least two or three still either have a strong Nordic heritage or are under the Nordic style government. Ladies and Gentlemen, please stop with the racist comments that Nordism is racist, it is not need. To the Previous Nordic players, please just accept that if you are going to be European and say that you have some Nordic heritage that you are going to be called Nordic. It goes with the territory, no one is telling you to RP in Europe, it just goes with the game.

There are various other examples after war, flamebating, name calling, unneeded OOC posts and threads as due with a total lack of respect to some players and their characters and styles. I do not believe for a minute that this will change, however I also am taking on the role here as devil's advocate, I don't really have a country now so when the OOC bickering starts, I don't open the thread anymore. I think I read rebellion some 5 posts? And then stopped. I would love to see these kinds of things stopped, we do after all have an OOC thread for the sake of arguing. But honestly, is it really worth it? Is the negative opinion of one person that you've never seen before except through their avatar worth it? I think not, if you get mad, step away from the computer and decide. If I'm mad enough that I want to quit, okay, I'm done and goodbye, no ranting is needed because honestly in a ragequit scenario, no one is going to care.

If you would like to still play, but are still too angry, take a break for a day, cool down. People get angry, it is acceptable. Come back later and play and I think you can look at the world with new eyes....damn did I just get hopeful about this?

Respect guys...we do it in every aspect of our lives...we can do it here as well.

[King Kevz]

Thank you for the compliment Sarah, coming from you that means very much to me. I know though that I still OOC moan and flame and I need to cut down on it but I think that if more people did as you say when they get angry, myself included, and step awya from the computer these forums could turn out better.

[JEDCJT]

Madame Unicorn and Sarah speaks the truth.

Srsly, I have nothing new to add, but that people need to calm down and chill. This is only a game, after all. Games are for fun and enjoyment, not anger and flaming.

Edited September 2, 2009 by JEDCJT

[Subtleknifewielder]

Hadn't even read Sargun's thread...if this is true...then his people are launching the invasion from my land. Not a happy situation for me.

[King Kevz]

Hadn't even read Sargun's thread...if this is true...then his people are launching the invasion from my land. Not a happy situation for me.

No no Sargun claimed some unclaimed land however, some of what he claimed belonged to AmpaSand who hadn't been added to the map at that point. So Sargun claimed what he could and then launched an invasion into AmpaSand's territory and a huge crap storm started against Sargun after AmpaSand raged quit. I myself complained OOC to Sargun until I realised I was wrong.

[Executive Minister]

<snip>Because all the OOC comments that you seem to want to make ALL THE TIME have ruined it.

You're ruining CNRP with your petty and inane comments when they aren't needed AT ALL.

So what if Sargun wanted to invade? So what if it was wrong. STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT. What Sargun does IC is his business, and also the business of the other person he's engaging with. Why do we need to have 50 million comments on how you disagree and how %^ this is OOC.

Seriously. We all need to have a decent look at how we're roleplaying and how we're treating each other. Derailing threads with your OOC flaming and tantrum throwing wont get you anywhere and it certainly wont make anyone else respect you.

CNRP, I believe, is a priviledge given to us by the mods. We NEED to start getting ourselves into line before they take the RP ability away from us. We NEED to give new players a chance. We NEED to be a bit more decent towards one another.

*sigh* I dont care if you dont like this rant. It's about time someone grew some and actually spoke up about the issues at hand.

I will try to be brief and to the point with my responses to this thread - I have a lot of IC damage control to do on behalf of the Red Sands.

I've been in CNRP for about a month or two, and quite frankly, the experience was amazing... being a 19 year old Uni first year, I've tried a lot of online stuff to pass the RARE blocks of empty time inbetween school, work, friends and girlfriend. CNRP was something that I felt was perfect for me, something that was immersive and engaging, while simultaneously being something I could work on, and put down for indefinite periods of time if need be. I loved looking over threads and narrative posts I've made, and seeing the reactions others had, good or bad.

If anyone would not want to "ruin" CNRP, it would be me. Now, why have I given this seemingly inane monologue? Well, its because I've noticed some glaring flaws within my newest and most prized obsession. I've taken this quote from Generalissimo, for two reasons, one, because it is completely and utterly 100% true, and two, Gen is an established CNRPer, and would nullify some responses to this point that I predict would take the form of "stfu you're a newb/noob (depending on the level of maturity of the respondent) thats trying to ruin what we've built".

I can see why you want a CNRP alternative, it’s often not a very friendly community; moreover CNRP is an insider’s game and suffers from horrible elitism.

Please, do not take this at a stab at ALL established CNRPers, please, because believe it or not, I too wish to become one of you.

I agree with the OP, with all her/his points actually, CNRP is a priviledge given to us by the mods. But what do you mean by us? I believe its a priviledge given to EACH AND EVERYONE of the thousands of CN players. Now, thankfully, not all of them wish to RP, but when a new person does want to, we should at least give them a chance.

The CNRP board is a board like every other board out there. All the stigmas a new member has when joining up and posting a thread for the first time are present within the CNRP. I remember being horrified when I saw LVN and Firestorm post their comments on my DoE/Factbook. I just wanted to start off and already I have people who, at that time and wrongly, I believed were against me.

OOC: No, the issue is that you guys are crossing the OOC/IC line, Executive. OOC, he's new and it sucks. IC, he's an established nation and he is in the way of an objective. More importantly, AmpaSand is not a new RPer. Just because his account is new doesn't mean he is..

Now, I am not defending those, like Zoot Zoot, who flamed Sargun. I hate those that flame and preemptively strike against others on boards. Whether its a post like Zoot's or threads like Ubers on the Nords (which I actually tried to defuse before the other CNRPers came online and started a flame fest) its wrong, and If I see it is wrong, I will point it out. I will put an OOC comment only if it is credible and not a flame regardless. The reason I am mentionning Zoot and Sarg's posts is because he' requested the original rebellion thread to be free of more OOC.

In regards to blurring the OOC/IC line. Not once have I EVER RP'd for OOC reasons. Spacingoutman can vouch for me completely and utterly. I have never flamed and will never do so. Sure OOC and IC viewpoints can be parallel, because honestly, its bound to be. As long as the person at the computer is typing what the IC person in the government says, there will be some correlation. To expect otherwise is absurd. It was only when things got worse did i drop the IC, because in all honesty, sure Sarg may be right and Ampa might have been the top dog in RP somewhere else, but if you looked at what he DID RP, come on... he was definitely a new RPer and everyone knows this, his Rage quitting should be the final nail in the coffin.

I will repeat myself. SURE Sargun was totally in his right to completely steamroll Tyran and Carthage. But OOC'ly, did you HAVE to??? I understand that you previously RPed in Africa, but come on... couldn't you have just waited till Amp quitted on his own? You had New Zealand or whatever before. Instead, you caused him to rage quit, which is essentially booting him from the game. Whether he was going to do it on his own or not is irrelevent anymore. You booted him out, and this gives me the message that only the strong IG'ly can RP safely on this board. Or those who have lots of friends in CNRP. Not to jab at Sarah, but Sargun, honestly, if Sarah was RPing in Carthage, would you roll her? I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it. What if V the King, the most powerful nation IG'ly in CNRP was in Tyran, would you roll him? Hell no. But why not, they are established nations in the way of your objective?

[in regards to planned wars] I'm sorry but no. This is a freaking roleplay in international politics. You don't get to decide if/when your nation gets declared on. Now should you at least have the courtesy of backing off if the RPer doesn't want to war? Sure.

I voted yes because if you dont have planned wars, then anyone who wanted a particular piece of land could jump the tiny, under developed nation that owned it and drive them right out without consent. I was never keen on the whole "If you dont recognize the war, its an auto win for the other guy."

In order to assuage MUs comments that my OOC in the thread is ruining CNRP, I will use this whole issue to make an attempt to improve CNRP IMVVVVVHO.

There should be a rule on Nation strength. Keep the spontaneous wars. KEEP THEM COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY! Just, make it so an immensely stronger nation IG'ly cannot pre-emptively take hostile actions up to and including war against a nation that IG'ly is a fly to them without the fly's consent. This does not rule out defensive actions. CN itself has this rule, why can't CNRP?

Voted no. It just lets people do what they want and then not recognize a war when it comes time to fight.

Nation A attacks Nation B. Nation B is smaller, but thinks it'd be fun and recognizes the war

Nation A wins and annexes 75% of B.

Nation A declares war on Nation C. Nation C thinks the same way as B and recognizes

Nation A wins and expands.

Nations D, E, F, and G decide they're tired of it and want to attack Nation A

Nation A refuses to recognize the war.

This is just a way for the bullies to kill the fun-loving weaker nations while saving their $@! from the big guys. I'm fine if the war is unplanned, but the two sides meet and say "So do we agree not to use nukes, bio weapons, etc.", but this idea is a big $%&@ NO.

So far I have not seen this scenario play out AT ALL. Right now, Nation A who is most likely HUGE attacks Nation B. Nation B does not wish to lose his foothold in CNRP and declines. Nation A complains that B is being a poor sport and initiates the, "if you don't recognize my war i win" which is the stupidest rule I have ever seen to be frank. In order to be a poor sport, there SHOULD BE SPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!! If 10000000 out of 10000000 times you lose, thats not a sport, its non-sense. This is the CNRP we have now... especially with the whole, I have it IG'ly therefore i have it RP'ly. This means the oldest CNers will by default be the toughest sons of in CNRP, which contributes to the, correct-me-if-I-am-freaking-wrong, Elitist attitude in here.

OOC: The next generation of idiocy.

I do not know where you're going with this. Care to explain?

Grow some? They be swangin'... B)

Edited September 2, 2009 by Executive Minister

[Tahsir]

Please note: My war in the Netherlands

I invaded, I occupied, then I rped slow falling back and was eventually going to retreat, but then I somehow won. I even got accused of GOD MODING by losing?

Sure what happened to ampa wasn't courteous, but this is CNRP. We don't do CNRP just to sit around idly making news reports about how the tulips are in bloom all the time.

If that is what you wanted to do, you didn't have to join CNRP.

CNRP is popular because stuff like rouge states attacking out of the blue happen Drama is entertaining.

[Sargun II]

Not to jab at Sarah, but Sargun, honestly, if Sarah was RPing in Carthage, would you roll her? I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it. What if V the King, the most powerful nation IG'ly in CNRP was in Tyran, would you roll him? Hell no. But why not, they are established nations in the way of your objective?

---

I already stated on IRC that if Lavo himself owned the land I would invade him. I hope that answers your question.

(by the way, invading Sarah means that people will get their white knight on and come to her defense even if she told them not to, and I'd still do it)

---

Regarding AmpaSand the "noob RPer", this is the guy who didn't have english as a known language (the one who had to translate everything we said into a french african translator and vice-versa) yet somehow managed to type in perfect goddamn English in a rebuttal where he ragequit because he couldn't have his way. In addition, though I will not speak of moderation issues, it's possible he is not who he says he is.

Regarding his behavior in the thread, I've been attacked by LVN where he broke his OOC promise and attacked me even when we agreed beforehand what was going to happen, and I still managed to $%&@ his invasion up instead of whining, accusing him of $%&@ and ragequitting. I didn't get my way and faced someone vastly superior than me yet came out ahead because I took a moment to think.

Thanks.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Sargun

[JerreyRough]

It would be far better to be nice at the beginning rather than providing unwanted challenges to possibly new players at the beginning. Players are not perfect and have a "do it anyways" way of thinking in RP; I was pretty damn junky of an RP'er when I joined, and if someone invaded when I started I would not be here today; now-a-days I do, but that is not the point. I will not direct this at current events (so sue me), just that in general leeway should be given for the non-elite players.

Understand that they are not you, and people are not automatically good & know how to respond upon joining.

[Executive , GJ!]

[Sargun II]

Not my problem. I don't do things because of OOC reasons, and I don't not do things because of OOC reasons. (in b4 everybody does things due to OOC) I've already explained that I don't care who was there. In fact, I didn't even check either players NS before I declared. As far as I knew they were both my size or potentially even larger. Whether you're new or not doesn't get you out of an IC situation.

[Generalissimo]

It’s you’re attitude, not what you did that’s bugging people Sargun.

After defeating your opponent, even after driving him from CNRP, you’re still snubbing the guy – it’s bullying and it rubs people the wrong way.

Tahsir Re did the something similar in game recently, yet still managed to retain a certain level of class.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Generalissimo

[Teriethien]

It’s you’re attitude, not what you did that’s bugging people Sargun.

After defeating your opponent, even after driving him from CNRP, you’re still snubbing the guy – it’s bullying and it rubs people the wrong way.

Tahsir Re did the something similar in game recently, yet still managed to retain a certain level of class.

Basically this. Tahsir Re's thread was pretty similar to Sargun's, but he went about with far more class. Sure it's only a game but you don't have to be a total jerk at it.

[Sargun II]

I'm not about to be nice to a liar who posts abhorrent pictures of people being massacred and then tries to change the picture when pointed out that he's wrong. Not only is it godmodding but sickening that you'd use those pictures in such a way. Then he goes about calling me a cheater without even telling me what I was doing wrong, then mouths off to me when it's all over with.

I didn't drive him from CNRP. He chose to !@#$%*, whine, moan and cheat his way out of this because he didn't get his way. If you feel like I'm being rude about it, grow some thicker skin. There's no freaking way I'm going to be nice to someone like him and I won't be nice to anyone who accuses me of being an !@#$%^&. It's the Golden Rule - be nice and logical to me and I'll be nice and logical back.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Sargun