Minilla Island Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 "We will fight this war with no joy, and we will fight it with honor and dignity. We will not impose draconian terms...they will be obscene."I fixed the quote. Oh, get real. TPF got terms that any sane leadership without a death wish would have accepted. Sad pert is that TPF's leadership has leadership that could not care less for their Alliance's future. They truly have a death wish. So, let's give them the Paul Kersey treatment. Perma-ZI the lot of them until they come crawling on their knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Oh, get real. TPF got terms that any sane leadership without a death wish would have accepted. Sad pert is that TPF's leadership has leadership that could not care less for their Alliance's future. They truly have a death wish.So, let's give them the Paul Kersey treatment. Perma-ZI the lot of them until they come crawling on their knees. Giving TPF terms that Karma knows they wont accept is effectively sentencing them to perma war and perma Zi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) Giving TPF terms that Karma knows they wont accept is effectively sentencing them to perma war and perma Zi. We aren't responsible for bending over backwards to give TPF what they want. PC has as much right to reparations as anyone else, and TPF has admitted the reps are payable. So long as they are doable I fail to see what the problem is. Edited July 26, 2009 by Seerow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 We aren't responsible for bending over backwards to give TPF what they want. PC has as much right to reparations as anyone else, and TPF has admitted the reps are payable.So long as they are doable I fail to see what the problem is. The terms NPO have been handing out over the years have been doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Giving TPF terms that Karma knows they wont accept is effectively sentencing them to perma war and perma Zi. lol TPF can accept the terms and get peace whenever they choose. If TPF is to be perma-ZI'd or held in eternal war it will be purely based on their decision not to accept terms whihc are easily fulfilled. When STA surrendered to Valhalla we were in a similar predicament albeit we were not in a war supporting mindless aggression. But I digress. STA could have refused to pay Valhalla reps based on our open dislike for that alliance but once it was secured that our government and membership was not going to be decimated by the terms we accepted them on the basis that surviving and rebuilding would be the best result for us. If you want to spite PC, accept the terms, pay the reps and rebuild quickly. The STA is bigger and stronger than ever because we weighed up the pros and cons of accepting terms inclusing reps to an undeserving alliance like Valhalla and decided our survival and regrowth was far more important that dying a slow death in the name of pride. TPF would be best advised to accept the terms that are easily payable, even more so with outside aid permitted (a luxury the STA was not granted), and move on. I doubt you will but it is in your best interests to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The terms NPO have been handing out over the years have been doable. Except in the cases where they carried out PZI where terms were not offered, or where the demands were steep enough to cause the alliances to be disbanded, right? TPF can hold grudges after paying all they want, but they have no reason not to accept the terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 And this is why we moved from White... If you are stuck in an eternal war, you have no one to blame but yourselves. I personally don't care either way, but feel free to not whine or continue to post updates on how long you've been fighting the "good fight" from way up there on your crosses. It had to have been painful as hell nailing yourselves way up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Oh, get real. TPF got terms that any sane leadership without a death wish would have accepted. Sad pert is that TPF's leadership has leadership that could not care less for their Alliance's future. They truly have a death wish.So, let's give them the Paul Kersey treatment. Perma-ZI the lot of them until they come crawling on their knees. Sorry to tell you it isn't TPF's leadership that is saying this, but TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Wings Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Sorry to tell you it isn't TPF's leadership that is saying this, but TPF. So does this mean you'll be going extinct all at once, rather than dragging this drama fest out across the next few weeks and dozen or so pointless discussion threads? You've been offered a chance to walk away from your own grave, and you refused - with unprecedented solidarity, no less. That said, the polite thing for you to do would be to stop whining and start dying off by the dozens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppe Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Tyga.. my friend.. the Good riddance wasn't a comment from you. .. read back. Vanguard's Prototyperuler accused me of leaving when things got tough and couldn't Curbstomp anyone anymore.. not the case and I wasn't around for ANY rep requests in TPF. I will stop with this pointless character defense.. I am proud of my OWF and CN record. Other than that.. best of luck my white sphere brother. oo/ Deathcat I do not know you at all but I have heard of you and best wishes in your future endeavors. Don't let the haters get to you be proud of what you have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Oh, get real. TPF got terms that any sane leadership without a death wish would have accepted. Sad pert is that TPF's leadership has leadership that could not care less for their Alliance's future. They truly have a death wish.So, let's give them the Paul Kersey treatment. Perma-ZI the lot of them until they come crawling on their knees. Hmm. I could have sworn that there is a certain red sphere alliance who used to say something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahnite Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 If you seriously think these reps are unplayable, then you need to get in touch with reality more often.Regardless, your classy comment fails on account of your own leader's words. As I've stated, the issue wasn't the amount to be paid, but who it is paid to. Ask him sometime. I far more in touch than you, I'm running the numbers. EPIC FAIL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I far more in touch than you, I'm running the numbers. EPIC FAIL! How can the reps be unpayable when you are allowed to receive outside aid to help pay the reps off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I far more in touch than you, I'm running the numbers. EPIC FAIL! Right. Because there's clearly no way for you to repay reps that you don't even have to pay yourself. You far more in touch with reality than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Wow people whining over the fact that TPF didn't accept terms, so what.....its there choice to accept or not. They chose not to, so be it. Trying to make Mhawk look like some dictator for not accepting is laughable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Wow people whining over the fact that TPF didn't accept terms, so what.....its there choice to accept or not. They chose not to, so be it. Trying to make Mhawk look like some dictator for not accepting is laughable I don't think anyone cares if they accept or not. People are shooting down the reasons they are putting forward for refusing the terms. The terms are not harsh and the reps are easily payable (especially as they are allowed to receive outside aid to assit them in paying off the reps). The only reason they are not accepting hte terms is because they do not want to pay reps to Poison Clan. Their choice, of course but not an overly sound reason to continue a lost war. Mhawk is not a victim of anything other than his own pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity111 Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I far more in touch than you, I'm running the numbers. EPIC FAIL! You're running the numbers...? Really...? 300 million and 29k tech Deal with the 300 million first. Every month, TPF must send 60 million. One month can consist of 3 rounds of aid, with each aid package consisting of 3m. It would thus only require 7 aid slots dedicated to sending out cash to meet the need. Obviously, one nation cannot do this alone, since one nation does not have 7 aid slots. However, 2 nations could easily handle this. 29k tech. TPF has 80k tech total, so it is definitely able to pay this off. For 6k tech a month, meaning 3 rounds of aid, and with each aid package consisting of 50 tech, it would take 40 aid slots dedicated to sending tech out in order to meet the need. Let's assume that all the people sending out tech for some reason only have 4 aid slots available to them. TPF, being allowed outside aid, could have nations paying off tech receive 3m and send out 150 tech, fully utilizing their aid slots. By doing this, it would only require 14 nations sending out tech. Lets say for some reason that TPF has no friends and can't get anyone to send them the 3m that is necessary. That's no problem either. Assuming your top nations for some reason only had access to 5 aid slots each, it would only take 3 other nations sending 3m packages out to the 14 tech dealers to fund the distribution of tech. In essence, you need 5 nations capable of sending out 15m every 10 days (if you don't have that, then you can have more nations sending out aid, whatever works) and 14 other members dealing tech in order to get these reps done. Of course, this is a moot point, because TPF has stated that they -can- pay the reps, it's just that they don't want to pay them to us. You seem to be the only one who believes that you -can't- pay the reps. Fine, TPF doesn't want to pay the reps. I don't care, I'm fully open to warring TPF for another three years or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I don't think anyone cares if they accept or not. People are shooting down the reasons they are putting forward for refusing the terms.The terms are not harsh and the reps are easily payable (especially as they are allowed to receive outside aid to assit them in paying off the reps). The only reason they are not accepting hte terms is because they do not want to pay reps to Poison Clan. Their choice, of course but not an overly sound reason to continue a lost war. Mhawk is not a victim of anything other than his own pride. The terms are there for them to be accepted or not. not for others to e-lawyer about them. If they don't accept then continue the war. I personally don't see why had to come and post here about them. So what if they don't want to pay reps to PC, public knowledge they are pretty much sworn enemies of each other. Also if I was in Mhawk's position I believe the only thing I would have left too is pride and honour. Also remember this would be a TPF decision not to accept not just Mhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The terms are there for them to be accepted or not. not for others to e-lawyer about them. If they don't accept then continue the war. I personally don't see why had to come and post here about them. So what if they don't want to pay reps to PC, public knowledge they are pretty much sworn enemies of each other. Also if I was in Mhawk's position I believe the only thing I would have left too is pride and honour. Also remember this would be a TPF decision not to accept not just Mhawk It helps give the public a better view on which the judge all parties involved and inform them of why TPF is still at war. I for one thank our new karma overlords for this change. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The terms are there for them to be accepted or not. not for others to e-lawyer about them. If they don't accept then continue the war. I personally don't see why had to come and post here about them. So what if they don't want to pay reps to PC, public knowledge they are pretty much sworn enemies of each other. Also if I was in Mhawk's position I believe the only thing I would have left too is pride and honour. Also remember this would be a TPF decision not to accept not just Mhawk If you had followed the thread, you'd realise that the alliances at war with TPF made this public to cut TPF off at the pass should they decide to try and use the fact no peace has been agreed as an example of Karma holding them in an eternal war and/or offering impossible terms to facilitate eternal war. I think everyone is aware that this is TPF's decision. Just the reasons they are putting up are laughable. Allowing your alliance to die over pride is fine if that is what you want to do. I've generally gained more satisfaction in seeing my alliance rebuild to a strength far above our pre-war strength and believe that is a far more effective way of thumbing your nose at an alliance that hates you. I'm sure PC will cope if TPF decide to martyr themselves over this issue and it is nothing more than TPF shooting themselves in the foot in a futile attempt to damn those at war with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuMMyWoRm Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Oh so the peace mode war continues. Oh the excitement continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 About the only thing I'll say before this is lost in the sea of...well, whatever this is, is this. TPF? You don't want to put one dime of reps into PC's hand. Ok fine, I get your point there. However, I would like to point out that if you rather just have your entire alliance basically DIAF over it, PC will probably enjoy that much much more than any amount of money or tech you could ever send them. Basically, you're at a crossroads of two choices that you can't really stomach well. One path allows you the opportunity to get back on your feet and, perhaps, down the road resume your grudge match. The other path doesn't allow you to do that for a long time if ever. Just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutkase Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) If you had followed the thread, you'd realise that the alliances at war with TPF made this public to cut TPF off at the pass should they decide to try and use the fact no peace has been agreed as an example of Karma holding them in an eternal war and/or offering impossible terms to facilitate eternal war.I think everyone is aware that this is TPF's decision. Just the reasons they are putting up are laughable. Allowing your alliance to die over pride is fine if that is what you want to do. I've generally gained more satisfaction in seeing my alliance rebuild to a strength far above our pre-war strength and believe that is a far more effective way of thumbing your nose at an alliance that hates you. I'm sure PC will cope if TPF decide to martyr themselves over this issue and it is nothing more than TPF shooting themselves in the foot in a futile attempt to damn those at war with them. and yet this announcement turned into a "OMG TPF fail" thread, funny how people point and laugh when they are down. (not talking about you Tygaland, your posts are thoughtful) Edited July 26, 2009 by nutkase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 and yet this announcement turned into a "OMG TPF fail" thread, funny how people point and laugh when they are down.(not talking about you Tygaland, your posts are thoughtful) I don't think it has really. There will always be a few idiots but I think for the most part the comments here have been reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 and yet this announcement turned into a "OMG TPF fail" thread, funny how people point and laugh when they are down.(not talking about you Tygaland, your posts are thoughtful) Most people want TPF to accept these terms, nobody around likes killing off communities anymoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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