The Khmer Ultimatum.

[Subtleknifewielder]

We have no information regarding any movements opposed to the government. Also we hope you understand the level of alertness and deployment in a nation at war. Such notions as disguise will not suffice in such a situation. Also special ops require a greater level of information and reconnaissance before operations. The conflict had deteriorated too fast for such a reconnoitering.

We hope you can understand the true nature of Special Operations.

OOC: Rambo stuff never works. I am RPing real spec ops, not movie kind.

OOC: What, you have no spies in place? Sleeper cells? Even during the height of the Cold War, the US and Soviet Union had agents in each other's governments.

[HHAYD]

We have no information regarding any movements opposed to the government. Also we hope you understand the level of alertness and deployment in a nation at war. Such notions as disguise will not suffice in such a situation. Also special ops require a greater level of information and reconnaissance before operations. The conflict had deteriorated too fast for such a reconnoitering.

We hope you can understand the true nature of Special Operations.

So you prefer to attack without any researching? You could have pulled strings to delay the conflict in order to gain information.

[king of cochin]

Distraction is the key. Set off their security system several times to get them to turn down the sensitivity, get someone who is in the security force to help out, etc, etc, etc.

We implore upon you to expand your information regarding special operations from beyond fiction to actual history. Distractions and inside assets can only be prepared through long term planning.

It still boils down to the fact that no matter how much you calculate, there is guaranteed collateral damage from any missile attack.

Covert operations possess much less risk of that, and what are those operatives for, if not difficult situations like these? If you hold back with them in situations like these, always afraid of using them, they never get used, and they are wasted. there is no poiint to having them if they are not used from time to time.

These people are trained for situations just like this.

We agree that there is collateral damage due to death of secretarial staff etc and we have expressed our regret regarding that. If it were ever possible for us to compensate their families for their losses we would definitely do so. But we consider that it best 50 people die than 50,000. There is no rosy glinted option here.

There are covert operations and then there are suicide operations. There is no point in sending our soldiers with negligible information against uncertain threats. Many nations may not value human life, but we do. We value the life of both our citizens and soldiers as well as the lives of citizens of Khmer Empire.

[hawk11]

OOC: Time for your friendly GM to remind you that the term "casus belli" literally translates to "case for war." The phrase "An act of casus belli" makes absolutely no sense. Had it been phrased as "An act that established casus belli" or something equally grammatically correct, I wouldn't be posting here. Please stop throwing around Latin to try and sound official and speak English.

-hawk_11

Resident Anti-Latin

Edited July 15, 2009 by hawk_11

[Michael McBride]

You say you value the lives of Khmer Empire citizens when you needlessly murder them? Your responses have been classic comedy gold.

We also note that you have not been responding to other excellent suggestions. What about making the handover of government officials in surrender terms? Where is the hard evidence of the government of Khmer ordering the assassination of your diplomats? You have made claims, you must now back them up.

[king of cochin]

"So that is a 75 foot radius? That rubble could kill tourists of other nations that were visiting the capital building that day."

Yes and we truly regret death of any accidental bystanders, but it is ultimately the responsibility of Khmer Empire when they decided to declare war against us.

"Let us just hope they don't respond with their own attack or maybe something worse"

In that case we can only sympathize with the citizens of Khmer Empire.

OOC: What, you have no spies in place? Sleeper cells? Even during the height of the Cold War, the US and Soviet Union had agents in each other's governments.

Until the alleged massacre in the Khmer Empire town our nations were at very cordial relations and we had not conducted any aggressive espionage in their nation. Perhaps after this conflict we shall review our policies.

So you prefer to attack without any researching? You could have pulled strings to delay the conflict in order to gain information.

It is difficult to operate in a nation at war and gather information.

OOC:Seriously guys, read up on spec ops before shooting off like that? You guys have any idea how long it took for Iran Embassy siege? Read upon the failed commando rescue operation during Teheran Embassy siege. Read upon RUF/ESN siege in Sierra Leone!!

[HHAYD]

We implore upon you to expand your information regarding special operations from beyond fiction to actual history. Distractions and inside assets can only be prepared through long term planning.

We implore upon you because you choose to slaughter everyone in the building even though you do not have the evidences to show who are the ones who organized the attacks.

What if one a small part of the government was rogue and the rest had no idea what was going on? Show us the evidences to prove that EVERYONE in the building was guilty.

We go by "innocent until proven guilty", you go by "guilty from the boneless claims until proven innocent"

[Subtleknifewielder]

OOC: What, you have no spies in place? Sleeper cells? Even during the height of the Cold War, the US and Soviet Union had agents in each other's governments.

Until the alleged massacre in the Khmer Empire town our nations were at very cordial relations and we had not conducted any aggressive espionage in their nation. Perhaps after this conflict we shall review our policies.

OOC: Please read my statement carefully...you responded IC to an OOC question.

[Biohazard]

The Empire of Rome is astounded by the stupidity displayed by the Dragon Empire. We have always opposed the DE, not hostilely, but with a certain level of respect. Today, that respect has vanished. If you had any knowledge whatsoever, you would realize that you are in the fault here. Man up to it, exclaim it, and move on to diplomatic talks with Khmer.

[Subtleknifewielder]

The Empire of Rome is astounded by the stupidity displayed by the Dragon Empire. We have always opposed the DE, not hostilely, but with a certain level of respect. Today, that respect has vanished. If you had any knowledge whatsoever, you would realize that you are in the fault here. Man up to it, exclaim it, and move on to diplomatic talks with Khmer.

"With whom are they supposed to confer? They just killed the government."

[Voodoo Nova]

Yes and we truly regret death of any accidental bystanders, but it is ultimately the responsibility of Khmer Empire when they decided to declare war against us.

"How will you repay those family's of the tourists killed in the attack on Khmer Empire's capital building? It is your responsibility because the Dragon Empire launched the missile that killed foreign citizens."

[Maelstrom Vortex]

The one concerning the death penalty for murder, by any chance?

Also, while a casus belly, fact remains that your ultimatum gave them a 48 hour period to conform to the demands stated therein. Also, we point at that last line:

Note how it does NOT state MORE military force. While we agree the casus belli would have been justified if the 48 hour term had passed, the simple fact was that it had not, making this attack unwarranted and unnecessary.

This is little more than semantic nit-picking and will not merit a response.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

yes, but the risk of collateral damage is much less than a fuel-ari bomb, which guarantees collateral damage, no matter how well-placed.

As for the covert ops team...we suppose you have never heard of the term disguise? Infiltration is not 100% shooting.

"We did not use fuel air ordinance. We used a very precise military warhead consistent of TNT and aluminum powder that is standard in military munitions and was custom made to its purpose. We did not kill any innocent civilians as every person in the structure we have targeted was a member of government or their facilitator.. meaning a direct part of the apparatus which is responsible for the death of our diplomats." noted the Chairman. "May the world learn that justice is done to those who seek to defy it by hiding behind papers and borders. We understand that Promised Land believes a covert action would have resolved this better, but we assure you it would not have because we are certain Khmer has its own covert defenses."

[HHAYD]

"We did not use fuel air ordinance. We used a very precise military warhead consistent of TNT and aluminum powder that is standard in military munitions and was custom made to its purpose. We did not kill any innocent civilians as every person in the structure we have targeted was a member of government or their facilitator.. meaning a direct part of the apparatus which is responsible for the death of our diplomats." noted the Chairman. "May the world learn that justice is done to those who seek to defy it by hiding behind papers and borders. We understand that Promised Land believes a covert action would have resolved this better, but we assure you it would not have because we are certain Khmer has its own covert defenses."

So you are saying that the janitors in the building are also part of the shooting? Your logic astounds us.

[Centurius]

Due to recent actions by the Dragon Empire we do no longer see a reason to fight for it, the Pax Hanseatica does not cover Agressive actions as such all Croatian forces are ordered to withdraw and return home. We will revert to a state of neutrality on the matter.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"How will you repay those family's of the tourists killed in the attack on Khmer Empire's capital building? It is your responsibility because the Dragon Empire launched the missile that killed foreign citizens."

"Of course we did, we're at war with them due to their attack on our diplomats. Wars will have casualties. In our case our casualties were the diplomats. Khmer has their terms it is up to them whether they want to escalate this or accept."

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Due to recent actions by the Dragon Empire we do no longer see a reason to fight for it, the Pax Hanseatica does not cover Agressive actions as such all Croatian forces are ordered to withdraw and return home. We will revert to a state of neutrality on the matter.

"Khmer triggered our defensive treaties when they attacked our sovereignty by killing our diplomats which is a widely accepted cassus belli. The Pax Hanseatica is a defensive treaty, it would be activated."

Edited July 15, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Voodoo Nova]

"Of course we did, we're at war with them due to their attack on our diplomats. Wars will have casualties. In our case our casualties were the diplomats. Khmer has their terms it is up to them whether they want to escalate this or accept."

"You escalated it by sending a missile to their capital building, possibly killing tourists, interns, civilian workers, etc. How will you repay the families of foreign tourists that were most likely killed during the attack?"

[Maelstrom Vortex]

So you are saying that the janitors in the building are also part of the shooting? Your logic astounds us.

"War will have unfortunate collateral casualties that cannot be avoided. This is one of those instances. Better 1 janitor than a thousand soldiers."

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"You escalated it by sending a missile to their capital building, possibly killing tourists, interns, civilian workers, etc. How will you repay the families of foreign tourists that were most likely killed during the attack?"

"Foreign tourists shouldn't be in unstable states or war-zones. That's the job of their domestic state departments to warn them of regional discord. If the instability in this region has not been recognized after the assassination of our diplomats, then there's something wrong with the travel advisory boards."

Edited July 15, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Amyante]

This is little more than semantic nit-picking and will not merit a response.

That may be, but your actions have more than proven already that your opinion of subtlety and tact differs from ours.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Amyante

[Voodoo Nova]

"Foreign tourists shouldn't be in unstable states or war-zones. That's the job of their domestic state departments to warn them of regional discord."

"What of a 6 year old girl that could be visiting the capital building with her school? Did she deserve to die due to your escalation?"

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"Despite your obvious pleas for sympathy through age based discrimination, we will ask you why a 6 year old in our state should be without her father right now due to their initiation of the conflict? And ask if the life of a 30 year old man is any less valuable?"

Edited July 15, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[HHAYD]

"Foreign tourists shouldn't be in unstable states or war-zones. That's the job of their domestic state departments to warn them of regional discord. If the instability in this region has not been recognized after the assassination of our diplomats, then there's something wrong with the travel advisory boards."

What about domestic tourists, aka civilians?

[King Kevz]

"War will have unfortunate collateral casualties that cannot be avoided. This is one of those instances. Better 1 janitor than a thousand soldiers."

"Actually no its better no soldiers die or civilians but if it comes down to it soldiers sign up knowing they might die, civilians do not. The Dragon Empire commited war crimes here and is lucky no one will do anyhting about it".