sethb Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Look at Sparta; this is exactly what they're trying to do (but I don't think they can maintain it) as they conveniently backstabbed NPO by breaking all of the treaties, joined the winning side, and attacked NPO How do you know so much about Sparta's plans? You don't so please stop acting like you know anything about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 How do you know so much about Sparta's plans? You don't so please stop acting like you know anything about them. simple. They're made up of a bunch of humans, and if their leaders and gov't act in a rational manner, their plans should reflect exactly that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 simple. They're made up of a bunch of humans, and if their leaders and gov't act in a rational manner, their plans should reflect exactly that. Actually, that would be pretty stupid planning, not rational or intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Actually, that would be pretty stupid planning, not rational or intelligent. really? siding with the strongest side is not rational? that's exactly what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) really? siding with the strongest side is not rational? that's exactly what they did. Sparta was never going to side against us any more than, say, MHA would have ever sided against Grämlins. The fact that we won is a happy coincidence. Edit: Incidentally, I'm not saying this is true for every alliance. I don't know everyone's motivations for joining and like most wars, there probably were some people who hopped on the Karma bandwagon because they could and knew they'd win. Sparta just doesn't happen to be one of them. Edited June 18, 2009 by Delta1212 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Sparta was never going to side against us any more than, say, MHA would have ever sided against Grämlins. The fact that we won is a happy coincidence.Edit: Incidentally, I'm not saying this is true for every alliance. I don't know everyone's motivations for joining and like most wars, there probably were some people who hopped on the Karma bandwagon because they could and knew they'd win. Sparta just doesn't happen to be one of them. give me a break. Sparta, MHA and TOP all backed out of the Continuum and the War on its eve once they full well knew that a war was brewing up against NPO. The difference with Sparta and MHA&TOP, is that they took it a step further and directly attacked NPO. It's called selectively honoring your treaties, and of course they all chose the side they felt would be more beneficial to them. Rational Actor Model plz. Look at the coalition of cowards. They all initially backed out from honoring their treaties, but when faced with the prospect of getting attacked anyways with a lot of international pressure, only then did they honor it. Cold Hard Politics. My point is that Karma is basically the same cold-hearted realists as NPO, except they are holier-than-thou about it and do not actually acknowledge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Oh no, a good chunk of us are perfectly willing to go down swinging if need be rather than save our skins at every opportunity. We're just not stupid enough to try and lose in order to prove it to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I voted pther mostly because to me it's not about supporting NPO so much as it's not agreeing with what Karma was doing. The alliances fighting NPO had every right to do so through treaty obligations. That isn't being disputed. The reps are pretty much where I figured they'd be even if they are high. Karma could really have been the better people here and left me impressed. Yet they continue to put terms into vague writing leaving no guarantees. T me that's what terms are supposed to be. A guarantee. If you do x then y not if you do x then maybe y. How could any alliance really be able to accept on such ambiguous language? There is no reason that Karma couldn't get what they want while making concrete terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Really more of "I don't much like Karma," than "I <3 NPO," but option 1 all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Oh no, a good chunk of us are perfectly willing to go down swinging if need be rather than save our skins at every opportunity. We're just not stupid enough to try and lose in order to prove it to anyone. no doubt. I never said the Rational Actor Model always applies to humans and human organizations (even if its the most common form). Look at TPF and Echelon. It's completely against their interest to stay in the war, and near-suicidal. Bonds of "friendship", taking a bullet for someone else.. fighting a losing war until the end... not really the smartest option, but it does happen anyways. That's also what makes us human . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 The polls on these forums are inaccurate. Anyone who takes them seriously is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenoDurkster Posted June 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I would agree with Seth you don't nessecairly know what an alliance is thinking if you do then ethier your apart of the discussion or you know things that would best be kept quiet about if you like your nation. I don't say i know whats going on in the leaderships mind. I just speak my opinion and try and base it on common sense and facts(though i am sure some of my facts are not true) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandal Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I can't say that the war has made me think of NPO any differently as much as I have changed perceptions for some alliances within Karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 no doubt. I never said the Rational Actor Model always applies to humans and human organizations (even if its the most common form). Look at TPF and Echelon. It's completely against their interest to stay in the war, and near-suicidal. Bonds of "friendship", taking a bullet for someone else.. fighting a losing war until the end... not really the smartest option, but it does happen anyways. That's also what makes us human . Indeed. Sparta happens to fall into that category, as they were one of a handful of alliances that pledged to come in supporting those of us who were going to be mounting OV's defense even though it appeared it was going to turn out to be another curbstomp with us under the boot. This being Sunday, the day before NPO and TORN's attack when some key alliances on what would become Karma's side were making noises that they wouldn't be joining the conflict to defend OV, which would have pretty much collapsed the effort. Of course, then the circumstances surrounding the initial attack pretty much solidified Karma and the rest is history in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I could honestly care less about them. I don't hate them or like them. They are just the NPO to me. Nothing more. Nothing less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogenes Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Ask again later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I would consider myself a Moo groupie, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudeldorf Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I hate them MORE now! D:< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I dislike NPO about the same now as I did before the war. About the only real change in perception I have is an increase in dislike of a few other alliances for various reasons (ODN, FOK, MK, etc.) Why do your dislike of MK increase? I'm very intrigued about that statement you see... Please, tell me more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incitatus Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I love Pacifica. P_C should come back I'm glad GOONS returned. Master&Kommander was the greatest citizen on Planet Bob that ever lived, as was Commander Cody. In all seriousness, I don't love or hate Pacifica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Boris Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Why do your dislike of MK increase? I'm very intrigued about that statement you see...Please, tell me more I'll talk to you later when I am on a network that doesn't block IRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I'll talk to you later when I am on a network that doesn't block IRC. What about the rest of the people who want to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderJerusalem Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I'll talk to you later when I am on a network that doesn't block IRC. I won't be on later... You might as well just answer it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steodonn Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I won't be on later...You might as well just answer it now This I wanna know too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Never in a thousand years will you ever guess what I voted for, no way, no how. Actually, I just voted no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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