Why I am a Pacifican

[kevin32891]

If Karma planned this several months back, NPO would have attacked everyone for dealing with Blackstone.

I'm sorry. Let me clarify what I said.

What I'm meaning to say is that Karma was being formed months back before we DW

on OV. You were waiting for us to slip up and we did.

[Sal Paradise]

Nobody expects NPO members to explain why they are members, especially not when the reason is 'the community'. That's the default position for most people.

After a month of war and isolation there's obviously something deeper to your need to make this extremely superficial declaration. Your thoughts betray you, Bartley. I feel the good in you, the conflict.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[RoyBatty]

A good post, besides your interpretation of the events leading up to the war. May your home never be taken from you. Nuked to the ground? Well. That's another story!

[kevin32891]

yea you give Karma too much credit. Once NPO attacked OV, it just sorta happened and everything fell into place.

If you believe that Karma was created just right after we DW on OV.

Then you're an idiot.

[Letum]

Thank you Bartley for taking the time to write this up, and it's a true reflection of how most of those active on the OWF got to where they are (replace NPO with any alliance and go from there). That being said, I must take issue with this small bit, as insignificant as it might be to the point of your post.

Karma didn't attack the NPO - the NPO attacked OV during peace negotiations and those who were allied to OV fought back. This was an aggressive war by NPO, not the other way around.

The majority of the NS against us came into the war via optional aggression pacts. I believe only VE, GOD and Vanguard had a direct defence link.

So yes, it could be construed that this was aggression; Ragnarok admitted their part as such in the thread about their treaty with FIRE, and why it would not be activated against the NPO.

And then there is the whole "what classifies as aggression, the act of of war, the justification or the attack?" debate.

Not that it holds significance in anything but semantics of course. The "We are justified" rationale always trumps legalise.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Letum

[Lord Brendan]

I'm sorry. Let me clarify what I said.

What I'm meaning to say is that Karma was being formed months back before we DW

on OV. You were waiting for us to slip up and we did.

This quite simply isn't true. It was much more of a "I bet NPO is going to attack one of us sooner or later" (which was correct) than a "Let's make plans to take out NPO". Karma fell together mainly as a result of you attacking during negotiations.

I'll leave you a link to Delta's awesome post if you want more details.

[Schattenmann]

Why I was a Hidden GOONS.

I first incorporated my nation, Schloss Eggenberg, on February 13th, 2007. It was the first Fark.com Greenlight.

Like every nation, when I started, Schloss Eggernberg was small. Ironically, I had not joined FARK, and I was not accustomed to ruling a nation, so I thought that I could only increase my infrastructure by 10 per day, not 10 per transaction. I plodded along in this way for months. Ignoring alliance advertisement spam, I bought my 10 infra per day, laughed at the steep cost of tech and ignored it, and never visited the international forums. I had fun with my little nation, and that's all I wanted.

Then, I realized that there was a SomethingAwful.com-themed alliance, GOONS. I did not read the SA forums, but I had been getting in trouble for laughing too loudly over Cliff Yablonski articles for over 5 years at that point. So, I joined GOONS in August of 2007.

A whole new world was opened up to me.

I found out that I could buy as much infrastructure as I wanted as long as I had the cash, I learned about bonus resources (we had to get Construction before we could leave Camp Meatspin, GOONS's bootcamp), I learned the value of tech and the advantages of tech-dealing when Tautology came to Meatspin looking for sellers.

I started getting on IRC to stay abreast of what was going on in the alliance, and I was thrust into Planet Bob's biggest political intrigues: Modgate and the Moldavi Rebellion. I learned about our staunch allies the New Pacific Order. Of how our bond with them was unbreakable.

Suddenly the nation building aspect became just a page of statistics and the real game of Cyber Nations opened up. I started talking to other people, who showed me the ropes and taught me all sorts of interesting things.

The UnJust War broke out while I was still relatively small, so I did not have very far to fall. I did not know why NpO and ~ attacked our allies beyond the "truths" and "facts" I read on the forums and in #goonrush, and did not fully comprehend the causes of such animosity against GOONS, Genmay, \m/ and other GOONS allies. But, I knew, we knew, that just as we had stuck by NPO's side, they would stick by ours.

The entirety of GOONS was hit and hundreds of nations lost much more than myself. They are no longer here--nearly 1000 of them are gone, and even if there is a new "GOONS", those rulers will never return. Nor will the hundreds more nations lost from \m/ and Genmay.

It became more evident that it did not matter what "truth" was being pushed around or whatever propaganda was being thrown around. I realized what "truthiness" is written in the history will not matter either. I only knew that in our greatest time of need, our greatest allies abandoned us, even helped plan our burning. I realized that there was no greater enemy of GOONS than Pacifica. That no ally of Pacifica had any greater enemy than Pacifica.

My name is Schattenmann. My nation is Schloss Eggenberg. None of that is real, but the personal experience with other people in GOONS was real. The fantastic and diverse group of people who shared GOONS with me was real.

And they are gone.

And there is no clearer truth than that.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Sal Paradise]

If you believe that Karma was created just right after we DW on OV.

Then you're an idiot.

You speak from ignorance with great certainty. An interesting label to put on others

[Roadie]

Keep to what you believe. Your nation has been through a lot.

Many of the people hating NPO hate them because their own alliance disbanded over far less that what NPO is going through. Certianly not all, but many. Many, many more of the people hating NPO hate them because they had to pay reps that are far less than those faced by NPO, and not by total numbers either, weighted by alliance members, these terms are far more severe than most of the reps people use for a rallying cry against NPO. Again, not all, but most.

Bottom line, you've already proven yourself to be stronger than the vast majority of those that hate your alliance. Stay strong.

[Kung Fu Geeks]

So everybody in karma has wanted to get back at NPO for a while. Its hardly news.

Whether or not Karma setup a trap, or just had contengency plans is a moot point. NPO did take the offensive, and they are getting beat down for everything they've ever done because of it.

[kevin32891]

Why I was a Hidden GOONS.

I first incorporated my nation, Schloss Eggenberg, on February 13th, 2007. It was the first Fark.com Greenlight.

Like every nation, when I started, Schloss Eggernberg was small. Ironically, I had not joined FARK, and I was not accustomed to ruling a nation, so I thought that I could only increase my infrastructure by 10 per day, not 10 per transaction. I plodded along in this way for months. Ignoring alliance advertisement spam, I bought my 10 infra per day, laughed at the steep cost of tech and ignored it, and never visited the international forums. I had fun with my little nation, and that's all I wanted.

Then, I realized that there was a SomethingAwful.com-themed alliance, GOONS. I did not read the SA forums, but I had been getting in trouble for laughing too loudly over Cliff Yablonski articles for over 5 years at that point. So, I joined GOONS in August of 2007.

A whole new world was opened up to me.

I found out that I could buy as much infrastructure as I wanted as long as I had the cash, I learned about bonus resources (we had to get Construction before we could leave Camp Meatspin, GOONS's bootcamp), I learned the value of tech and the advantages of tech-dealing when Tautology came to Meatspin looking for sellers.

I started getting on IRC to stay abreast of what was going on in the alliance, and I was thrust into Planet Bob's biggest political intrigues: Modgate and the Moldavi Rebellion. I learned about our staunch allies the New Pacific Order. Of how our bond with them was unbreakable.

Suddenly the nation building aspect became just a page of statistics and the real game of Cyber Nations opened up. I started talking to other people, who showed me the ropes and taught me all sorts of interesting things.

The UnJust War broke out while I was still relatively small, so I did not have very far to fall. I did not know why NpO and ~ attacked our allies beyond the "truths" and "facts" I read on the forums and in #goonrush, and did not fully comprehend the causes of such animosity against GOONS, Genmay, \m/ and other GOONS allies. But, I knew, we knew, that just as we had stuck by NPO's side, they would stick by ours.

The entirety of GOONS was hit and hundreds of nations lost much more than myself. They are no longer here--nearly 1000 of them are gone, and even if there is a new "GOONS", those rulers will never return. Nor will the hundreds more nations lost from \m/ and Genmay.

It became more evident that it did not matter what "truth" was being pushed around or whatever propaganda was being thrown around. I realized what "truthiness" is written in the history will not matter either. I only knew that in our greatest time of need, our greatest allies abandoned us, even helped plan our burning. I realized that there was no greater enemy of GOONS than Pacifica. That no ally of Pacifica had any greater enemy than Pacifica.

My name is Schattenmann. My nation is Schloss Eggenberg. None of that is real, but the personal experience with other people in GOONS was real. The fantastic and diverse group of people who shared GOONS with me was real.

And they are gone.

And there is no clearer truth than that.

Wait you were in GOONS?

How come I don't remember you?

[Archon]

If you believe that Karma was created just right after we DW on OV.

Then you're an idiot.

You're a veritable goldmine, you know that?

[Roadie]

Why I was a Hidden GOONS.

I first incorporated my nation, Schloss Eggenberg, on February 13th, 2007. It was the first Fark.com Greenlight.

Like every nation, when I started, Schloss Eggernberg was small. Ironically, I had not joined FARK, and I was not accustomed to ruling a nation, so I thought that I could only increase my infrastructure by 10 per day, not 10 per transaction. I plodded along in this way for months. Ignoring alliance advertisement spam, I bought my 10 infra per day, laughed at the steep cost of tech and ignored it, and never visited the international forums. I had fun with my little nation, and that's all I wanted.

Then, I realized that there was a SomethingAwful.com-themed alliance, GOONS. I did not read the SA forums, but I had been getting in trouble for laughing too loudly over Cliff Yablonski articles for over 5 years at that point. So, I joined GOONS in August of 2007.

A whole new world was opened up to me.

I found out that I could buy as much infrastructure as I wanted as long as I had the cash, I learned about bonus resources (we had to get Construction before we could leave Camp Meatspin, GOONS's bootcamp), I learned the value of tech and the advantages of tech-dealing when Tautology came to Meatspin looking for sellers.

I started getting on IRC to stay abreast of what was going on in the alliance, and I was thrust into Planet Bob's biggest political intrigues: Modgate and the Moldavi Rebellion. I learned about our staunch allies the New Pacific Order. Of how our bond with them was unbreakable.

Suddenly the nation building aspect became just a page of statistics and the real game of Cyber Nations opened up. I started talking to other people, who showed me the ropes and taught me all sorts of interesting things.

The UnJust War broke out while I was still relatively small, so I did not have very far to fall. I did not know why NpO and ~ attacked our allies beyond the "truths" and "facts" I read on the forums and in #goonrush, and did not fully comprehend the causes of such animosity against GOONS, Genmay, \m/ and other GOONS allies. But, I knew, we knew, that just as we had stuck by NPO's side, they would stick by ours.

The entirety of GOONS was hit and hundreds of nations lost much more than myself. They are no longer here--nearly 1000 of them are gone, and even if there is a new "GOONS", those rulers will never return. Nor will the hundreds more nations lost from \m/ and Genmay.

It became more evident that it did not matter what "truth" was being pushed around or whatever propaganda was being thrown around. I realized what "truthiness" is written in the history will not matter either. I only knew that in our greatest time of need, our greatest allies abandoned us, even helped plan our burning. I realized that there was no greater enemy of GOONS than Pacifica. That no ally of Pacifica had any greater enemy than Pacifica.

My name is Schattenmann. My nation is Schloss Eggenberg. None of that is real, but the personal experience with other people in GOONS was real. The fantastic and diverse group of people who shared GOONS with me was real.

And they are gone.

And there is no clearer truth than that.

Pacifica didn't attack GOONS, it's a cheap shot to bring it up in this thread.

Furthermore, GOONS leadership was so incompetent they disnbanded at the first sign of hardship. To blame anyone other the GOONS themselves is nothing more than a deflection of blame.

[kevin32891]

You're a veritable goldmine, you know that?

Well you smell funny.

Oh wait I know what that is.

[Schattenmann]

Pacifica didn't attack GOONS, it's a cheap shot to bring it up in this thread.

Furthermore, GOONS leadership was so incompetent they disnbanded at the first sign of hardship. To blame anyone other the GOONS themselves is nothing more than a deflection of blame.

The New Pacific Order did not need to attack GOONS, they let it swing, and that's all they needed to do.

GOONS leadership disbanded the alliance on June 11, 2008 after facing tremendous hardship. To claim otherwise only shows your complete ignorance of the subject.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Vilien]

Wait you were in GOONS?

How come I don't remember you?

You clearly did not get the point of that.

[Machiabelly]

Can any thread not degenerate in to a who started it fight.

Congrats to the OP on finding a community they like. I spent 6 months there. I enjoyed my time, then got out and saw more of the world. While some aspects of NPO are unique, that is true of most alliances.

The feeling of community though, is pretty universal.

[Roadie]

GOONS leadership disbanded the alliance on June 11, 2008 after facing tremendous hardship. To claim otherwise only shows your complete ignorance of the subject.

Yes. The tremendous hardship of a few weeks of war and a terms joke. Neither of which were Pacifican actions.

Edit: To address your edit.

So Pacifica is to blame for the demise of GOONS because they didn't save GOONS?

The only similarity I've experiences in this game that even somewhat relates is this.

TORN refused multiple times during this war to help TPF. They did so for their own reasons and you will never see us blame TORN for our own actions.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Roadie

[kevin32891]

The New Pacific Order did not need to attack GOONS, they let it swing, and that's all they needed to do.

Now this I didn't know.

[Schattenmann]

Yes. The tremendous hardship of a few weeks of war and a terms joke. Neither of which were Pacifican actions.

Please continue making a joke out of yourself. September 2007 to June 2008 is over 1 year, not "weeks."

[sammykhalifa]

If you're in your alliance for community and friends (as you should be), then you'll surely understand then why many are so angry with your alliance. If your closest CN friends ever leave because they just don't feel like putting up with it any more, and you thought you knew who was to blame, you'd be bitter too.

[Seerow]

Please continue making a joke out of yourself. September 2007 to June 2008 is over 1 year, not "weeks."

To be fair it's 9 months, not over a year.

[kevin32891]

Yes. The tremendous hardship of a few weeks of war and a terms joke. Neither of which were Pacifican actions.

GOONland Resistance Movement

[Sal Paradise]

I thought this thread was about why Bartley was a Pacifican, not why GOONS disbanded.

To recap: Bartley is a Pacifican because of the community.

[Letum]

This quite simply isn't true. It was much more of a "I bet NPO is going to attack one of us sooner or later" (which was correct) than a "Let's make plans to take out NPO". Karma fell together mainly as a result of you attacking during negotiations.

This is an OOC forum, so I believe I can say this.

That is pretty no distinction between the two attitudes in world history. NATO was not created to take out the USSR, but because of a substantial belief that the numerically superior Soviet forces would steamroll Europe. The Warsaw Pact, and to an extent the iron curtain, was created by Russian fears of a third devastating invasion from the west, and served as a buffer zone that was expendable. The anti-comintern and tripartite pacts were formed to both contain the growing Soviet Union and to prevent Anglo-French meddling in what the signatories regarded as their natural spheres of influence.

Military pacts always exist to protect the interests of the groups in them; whether those interests are preserving the status quo or preserving their pixels. Aggression in a war always boils down to pre-emptive defence; a move to take out the other guy before they take you out. There is of course, also the conquest aspect of war, but that is not really very relevant in CN as, save teams, there are no hard assets for conquest to be waged over.

So yes, while the mentality between the two can seem very different to the people involved, in the eyes of history and in terms of cause and effect, they are exactly the same.