Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Ogaden]

Teriethien chokes.

No you didn't plan to attack Polar, you just wanted to kill them.

Again, I cannot speak of a past I was not there to witness.

[Sal Paradise]

From that thread.

[18:52] <Dilber|dinner> I expect we'll have to kill them in 1-2 months (referring to Polar)

[18:52] <Dilber|dinner> but they'll die easy

EDIT: Damn, Teriethien beat me to it while I was going through the entire post looking for it

Ah, but note the "have to". They were forced to do it. Mmhmm.

[Nintenderek]

Again, I cannot speak of a past I was not there to witness.

Your own words.

Even in the long winded expose of the absolute nadir of our relations, we still never planned on attacking them.

For the record, I have read all of the various dirty laundry of our history.

Now pick a story or shut up, because you can't have both stories. Either you read everything and so you should know what your talking about, or you didn't and then you wouldn't know what your talking about and I think the second option is more likely.

[Ogaden]

Really? You'd prefer to never be allowed to have more than 13 nukes (as an alliance) ever again? I think we might be able to come to an agreement on terms, my good man.

GPA has 413 nukes.

So our terms were obviously not eternal.

Edited June 14, 2009 by James Dahl

[Ogaden]

Your own words.

Now pick a story or shut up, because you can't have both stories. Either you read everything and so you should know what your talking about, or you didn't and then you wouldn't know what your talking about and I think the second option is more likely.

Which is why I prefaced my words in that as far as I know this is the case.

[Sal Paradise]

Again, I cannot speak of a past I was not there to witness.

How easily we forget our own words.

We have no plans to attack you, Emperor Grub. As far as I know we never had and never will.

You also spoke for the future.

[Teriethien]

I think we would prefer GPA's terms to the ones we were offered.

Umm... In that war, the GPA was attacked over a trumped up CB. In this war, the NPO attacked using a trumped up CB.

You deserve far worse terms than those you gave the GPA. (BTW, does anyone have figures on how large the GPA reps were proportionally?)

EDIT: Damn, Teriethien beat me to it while I was going through the entire post looking for it

[NoFish]

You missed a digit, today GPA has 413 nukes.

As I recall they were voluntarily released from the terms. The terms did not specify any date for them to end. If you were willing to agree to the same thing (along with re-writing your charter to ensure you stayed neutral! How's that for violating sovereignty!) I don't think we'd be too upset.

edit: assure != insure != ensure >.>

Edited June 14, 2009 by NoFish

[Ogaden]

Umm... In that war, the GPA was attacked over a trumped up CB. In this war, the NPO attacked using a trumped up CB.

You deserve far worse terms than those you gave the GPA. (BTW, does anyone have figures on how large the GPA reps were proportionally?)

Your colleague in GOD seems perfectly fine with the terms GPA was given if given to us.

Edited June 14, 2009 by James Dahl

[Branimir]

Really? You'd prefer to never be allowed to have more than 13 nukes (as an alliance) ever again? I think we might be able to come to an agreement on terms, my good man.

We were not the only signatory on their surrender treaty, you may know that. And the term was never to last for ever. It was to be lifted at the same time as the rest of the terms, to only get forgotten in the grand scheme and lifted officially later then planned.

[Sal Paradise]

Which is why I prefaced my words in that as far as I know this is the case.

It has been consistently proven in this thread over and over that you know nothing about anything you speak of. And yet you still speak, proven wrong again and again.

[Raider]

Which is why I prefaced my words in that as far as I know this is the case.

As you say:

Again, I cannot speak of a past I was not there to witness.

You are arguing with people who were there and against the confirmations of those who were aware and involved in what was happening.

[RoyBatty]

every just stop and take a breather please. I think this thread is getting way off topic and nothing is getting resolved.

So everyone please just step back take a breather in a room full of angry people posting he said , they said, they did this that or the other thing isnt getting anything resolved.

so just stop.. Please ( no offense too anyone )

1) NPO has done bad things in its past.

2) Allot of other players and nations have done things bad in the past too

3) NPO started this war

4) KARMA stepped up and beat NPO and allies down

5) NPO Admited defeat

6) MOO Declared that any alliance is free too make red sphere their home.

7) MOO publicly Applogised to GATO, and some KARMA feel its a false appology

8) Negotiations took place too end this war

9) KARMA made their Offer , Which was rejected by NPO due too the 90% /14 mandatory war

10) NPO/ MOO made counter offer of MORE money for reps in exchange for dropping the 90% mandatory war, KARMA rejected

11) Negotiations ended and multiple posts in this thread state KARMA will not alter the terms.

12) KARMA members claim that we have 181 banks sitting in PM, As a NPO who is in PM, I can honestly say we DONT have 181 banks

And yes i havent forgetten that KARMA is using this war too Punish NPO for every bad thing that has happened in the game. Contrary too popular belief, yes we have done alot too get people mad. but there are some posts laying blame on NPO for things we didnt do. and im not goin back thru 2500 posts too find all the quotes that would just drive me insane.

Id like too eventually have some kind of decent or reasonable peace.. the only way this can happen is too try and work it out instead of the back and forth slam posts. I dont care about all the back and forth blah blah blah. that stuff gave me 4 headaches just trying too read over 2500 posts, Sorry

soo Please everyone just STOP posting for a bit, calm down and then come back and discuss it like Adults and not like a bunch elementary kids arguing on the playground..

Please

Thank you

This is a somewhat refreshing post from the other side. I assure you that the governments of our respective alliances are attempting to work something out. However, nothing will be worked out on OWF by rank and file members like you and me. This thread spawned the reaction that it should have, in my opinion. I'm mad, you're mad. This post did nothing to ease tensions. However, I honestly believe that they will be eased. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy and partake in the lovely drama that surrounds us. I suggest you do the same, whether that be through countering arguments with well thought out responses or flat out flaming. At the end of the day, it's all good fun, eh?

[Nintenderek]

Which is why I prefaced my words in that as far as I know this is the case.

I think your missing my point. You said you read it, that means you would have read the post in my link (which I haven now linked to twice in this thread) and should have known better than to post what you said, so obviously you did not.

GPA has 413 nukes.

So our terms were obviously not eternal.

You released them as a PR move about a year after the terms were handed out or so. Here are the original terms.

The Green Protection Agency (GPA) admits defeat and wrongdoing in the present conflict and surrenders to the Continuum signatories of these terms. The signatories agree to cease hostilities contingent on the fulfillment of the following conditions:

1. The GPA agrees to provide reparations in the form of 10,000 technology to each of the Continuum alliances directly engaged in the present war. At the individual request of any of these alliances, money can be provided in lieu of tech at the exchange rate of $3 million per 100 tech. These reparations are to be paid within three months of the date on which the GPA accepts these surrender terms.

2. All GPA member nations will be required to participate in a period of disarmament lasting three months from the date of the ratification of these terms. Disarmament entails all of the following: maintenance of soldiers at no more than 30% of nation population; no tanks; no cruise missiles; no nuclear missiles; no aircraft; no military improvements (missile defenses, missile satellites, guerrilla camps and barracks) beyond those necessary to maintain Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) wonders. In the event of a unjustified, coordinated military attack on the GPA for this 3 month period, the Continuum will provide assistance.

3. GPA member nations will be barred from the maintenance of any nuclear arsenal indefinitely with the exception of a maximum of 13 total peacetime nukes within the GPA Alliance to be kept on hand for the protection from nuclear rogues. In the event of attack by nuclear rogues, they may go up to 30 nukes to defend their nations under siege. All nukes must be decommissioned at the end of the conflict. In the event of an attack by an alliance, those nations under attack may have up to 3 nukes each for defensive purposes. All nukes must be decommissioned back to the base level at the conclusion of the war.

4. The GPA will take action to correct widely acknowledged deficiencies and failings in their governmental structure and alliance culture that have compromised their stated principles of neutrality. This includes a restructuring of their charter and similar governing documents, which will be submitted for approval by the seven Continuum signatories of these terms no later than one month after these terms take effect. If the charter is not approved it will be sent back for revision or a suitable charter will be provided by the Continuum signatories, to be followed for a minimum period of one year thereafter.

5. Any GPA member nation found in abeyance of the disarmament terms will be issued an in-game notification message listing the transgressions of the nation in question and a link to the surrender terms; failure of that nation to comply with the terms upon receipt of the message or within five (5) days of this message (whichever comes first) will result in ejection of the nation in question from the GPA. Failure of the GPA to expel the nation in question will be considered a violation of these terms by the GPA alliance and will result in a discretionary military response up to and including full-scale continuation of the war, as the seven aforementioned alliances deem appropriate. The GPA is responsible for ensuring reasonable compliance with these terms among their membership. If it is determined that the GPA are not taking necessary steps to enforce and adhere to these terms it will be considered an act of war against the seven aforementioned alliances.

Here's the summary from the wiki if your mind is too small to understand.

1. GPA is to pay 70,000 tech or $2.1 billion to the Continuum by June 13, 2008.

2. Total disarmament of GPA and protection by the Continuum until June 13. GPA forbidden to have more then 30% military, no cruise missiles, no nuclear weapons, no aircraft, and no military improvements. (per nation)

3. GPA may not hold more than 13 nuclear weapons (as an alliance) during peace time. Only up to 30 total nuclear weapons in the event of a nuclear rogue attack. During an inter-alliance war upon GPA, nuclear compatible nations may have up to 3 nuclear weapons each.

4. GPA admits its government failed in trying to preserve neutrality. GPA to establish new charter and government structure by April 13, 2008 and to be approved by the seven Continuum signatory alliances.

5. If a nation is to be in violation of terms, they will have up to five days to disarm or risk being attacked by a Continuum signatory alliance.

Notice the lack of a time limit. This is because it was originally intended to last forever.

[Hydro]

GPA has 413 nukes.

So our terms were obviously not eternal.

When I left GPA we were hovering around 800-1000 members and were #1 in the game. Now the GPA is but a whithering husk of its former glory. It's membership was decimated by the likes of you and their "crime"? Nothing. Don't you dare try and make it look as though the GPA got off easy; they've been $%&@ed ever since you and your ilk destroyed them and for the GPA alone these terms are more than fair. As it stands though, the GPA is but one of the many alliances that the NPO $%&@ed over and, as I said, consider yourselves lucky to be enjoying the luxury of terms, because you don't deserve them in the slightest.

[Ogaden]

As you say:

You are arguing with people who were there and against the confirmations of those who were aware and involved in what was happening.

I'm not going to dispute this, however I am also not the one who brought up the subject.

[Cobalt]

meh. I read 10 pages then gave up.

my $0.02:

"Karma are hypocrites... blah blah blah I don't understand what the word karma means"

If we added up the amount of reps, tech reps, cost of destroyed infra, amount of time nations have been under PZI/EZI, etc of the NPO's history, then subtracted how much they've lost in this war, it would still be more they they could possibly ever pay. "Karma" as an idea, is about receiving back what you've caused, no more no less.

To think that Karma wouldn't offer extremely harsh terms is to mis-interpret the meaning of the word its based around. As I see it, Karma isn't about setting a new example so much is it is ballancing the books.

See it as you will, but I don't think any ruler with a shred of kindness in their souls could ask NPO for the kinda reps that would cancel out the debits planet bob has seen in the assets of the Pacific Order. Be happy Karma isn't living up to its name in entirety.

[Ogaden]

I think your missing my point. You said you read it, that means you would have read the post in my link (which I haven now linked to twice in this thread) and should have known better than to post what you said, so obviously you did not.

You released them as a PR move about a year after the terms were handed out or so. Here are the original terms.

Here's the summary from the wiki if your mind is too small to understand.

Notice the lack of a time limit. This is because it was originally intended to last forever.

Nothing lasts forever.

Well, except grudges, apparently.

[Ogaden]

When I left GPA we were hovering around 800-1000 members and were #1 in the game. Now the GPA is but a whithering husk of its former glory. It's membership was decimated by the likes of you and their "crime"? Nothing. Don't you dare try and make it look as though the GPA got off easy; they've been $%&@ed ever since you and your ilk destroyed them and for the GPA alone these terms are more than fair. As it stands though, the GPA is but one of the many alliances that the NPO $%&@ed over and, as I said, consider yourselves lucky to be enjoying the luxury of terms, because you don't deserve them in the slightest.

Where do I mention the terms were light? Nowhere.

Your hatred of NPO is evident, but you should not let your hatred cloud your better judgement.

[Teriethien]

Nothing lasts forever.

Well, except grudges, apparently.

You know it doesn't help the NPO's cause to say something like that, right? NPO would do well to learn from Polar's example.

[Branimir]

Notice the lack of a time limit. This is because it was originally intended to last forever.

No it wasn't. That is why it was lifted without a sweat later on.

But we can keep bringing random stuff not really related to current topic matter. Also, always show how NPO was the only alliance involved in all that, for example in the GPA war where a huge coalition formed against them.

Of course, only NPO is now to pick up the tab, right?

[Delta1212]

Nothing lasts forever.

Well, except grudges, apparently.

NPO used to take pride in their ability to hold grudges forever and take revenge on everyone who'd ever wronged them. It was a bragging point for quite some time.

[Nintenderek]

I'm not going to dispute this, however I am also not the one who brought up the subject.

If a subject is brought up, and you know nothing of it, don't press the reply button.

[Branimir]

See it as you will, but I don't think any ruler with a shred of kindness in their souls could ask NPO for the kinda reps that would cancel out the debits planet bob has seen in the assets of the Pacific Order. Be happy Karma isn't living up to its name in entirety.

OOC: I am getting really tired of this wrong western narrow minded understanding of the term karma where it only translates to revenge. You are describing revenge here, not karma. Call it then revenge, retribution, stop whoring the name karma. Karma is a bit more then revenge, more then an eye for an eye type of thing. That is a Christian religious concept, not oriental.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Branimir

[Hydro]

But we can keep bringing random stuff not really related to current topic matter. Also, always show how NPO was the only alliance involved in all that, for example in the GPA war where a huge coalition formed against them.

Of course, only NPO is now to pick up the tab, right?

Your alliance member brought it up in the first place. And what makes you think that because you had accomplishes to your crimes that your crimes were any less foul?