Do you think the current war will/had solve anything

[Cynic2]

Gonna make this short and sweet and try and be un-biased do you think this war has solved anything, Will solve anything, or is just a bunch of crazy people wanting to start wars.

The only thing that this war solved was the envy and fear levels of those who always saw the NPO at the top of the mountain. Now we'll have a new king of the mountain until people get jealous and/or afraid enough to band together and knock them down.

Also by Anything here are some suggestions (but not limited too)

Reduction of NPO's Power (take in the fact of there size not just NS)

Sure it accomplished this.

Removal of a supreme power (Wether it be a single alliance or a group)

Temporarily.

Karma got there "revenge"

They succeeded at knocking down the town bully sure.

Peace will have been brought to CN (or at least no major conflicts for am while)

I expect that we'll see another "major conflict" within the next three months.

stuff like that

All in all I think that the irrational jealousy that many held against the NPO manifested itself as the "Karma" coalition. The only real "crime" that the NPO was ever guilty of was that they politicked so good that it kept them on top for a long time.

[Vandal]

Same B.S.

Different power blocs.

All the current war did was remove a group of highly successful alliances with ones that have been carrying grudges for the last 2 years or so.

What I find highly entertaining is that those that were hoisting the war banners were they themselves guilty of the exact same thing NPO was trashed for.

All this did was cause more problems than they solved but it will be alot more fun because of it for awhile.

[Lord Brendan]

What I find highly entertaining is that those that were hoisting the war banners were they themselves guilty of the exact same thing NPO was trashed for.

Name me one alliance that fought for Karma that has done any of the following:

-Declared war on their own protectorate and held them in a state of war for over a year.

-Declared war on a disbanded alliance.

-Threatened PZI for any nation in Peace Mode during war.

-Imposed a viceroy for 10 months.

-Restricted a neutral alliance's sovereignty for over a year.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Lord Brendan

[kingzog]

The only real "crime" that the NPO was ever guilty of was that they politicked so good that it kept them on top for a long time.

What complete rubbish. Contrary to popular belief, politics consists of more than manipulating and deceiving one's allies at every turn.

Now, to the OP. Has this war solved anything? How wonderfully vague! I only need to show one thing in order to agree.

So....let me pick one....

This war's advent brought me back. Does that solve anything? No, probably not.

The war allowed Nordreich to return. Is that a solution of some kind? Perhaps. Many ex-NoR members missed their old home.

The war effectively erased the NPO's PZI/EZI list. Since I was put on said list about eight months ago, then I'd say something has definitely been resolved there.

Finally, the circumstances leading up to this conflict have made it clear that only a fool would sign a treaty with the current bunch sitting atop the NPO. The NPO's diplomatic masterminds have blown it. That certainly solves something.

So....sure, why not?

[Vandal]

Name me one alliance that fought for Karma that has done any of the following:

-Declared war on their own protectorate and held them in a state of war for over a year.

-Declared war on a disbanded alliance.

-Threatened PZI for any nation in Peace Mode during war.

-Imposed a viceroy for 10 months.

-Restricted a neutral alliance's sovereignty for over a year.

May not be the alliances currently in Karma but the list of Rulers of some of the alliances can certainly be addressed.

[Prince Yvl]

Stuff from the last page

Yeah, they all mean the same thing - a group of people coming together. However, if you were to refer to something in domestic politics as a "Labor bloc" people would give you funny looks.

Again, just semantics, and you should drop it - it's one hell of a weak argument. No matter how many definitions you throw out there, it doesn't change the fact that Karma is not conjoined by a single treaty.

May not be the alliances currently in Karma but the list of Rulers of some of the alliances can certainly be addressed.

Name a few.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Prince Yvl

[wickedj]

This war has solved some things. At least for now.

There is no big Alliance at the top anymore that can (and obviously did) dominate all around it.

EZI has taken a big dunk downstairs and a big Alliance has to re-write its recruitment message.

Alot of what the dutchie said.

This war has brought back several alliances who with NPO still at the helm wouldnt be here

[Cynic2]

What complete rubbish. Contrary to popular belief, politics consists of more than manipulating and deceiving one's allies at every turn.

That's funny because for 2+ years or so their diplomatic prowess and propaganda kept them #1. And if you think that certain alliance leaders in the Karma coalition 'saw the light' for any other reason than political convenience then you are deluding yoursef. Where is the outrage at he other leaders who were putting names on PZI/EZI lists that now fight alongside of karma? Oh that's right they have opened their eyes all of a sudden and now realise that it was 'bad'. If you wanna talk about rubbish that's a good subject to start with.

[BayEagle]

Well... FAN got a 'Victory Lap'. So yeah, you'll find most FAN members in agreement that this war 'solved' something.

[Prince Yvl]

That's funny because for 2+ years or so their diplomatic prowess and propaganda kept them #1. And if you think that certain alliance leaders in the Karma coalition 'saw the light' for any other reason than political convenience then you are deluding yoursef. Where is the outrage at he other leaders who were putting names on PZI/EZI lists that now fight alongside of karma? Oh that's right they have opened their eyes all of a sudden and now realise that it was 'bad'. If you wanna talk about rubbish that's a good subject to start with.

Oh please. We know not all of us are saints, and I honestly can't even recall anyone claiming otherwise. We do know that as a whole, Karma is a far lesser evil than the Hegemony. But really, what are you expecting us to do? Refuse help because they have policies we don't agree with? I'm sure the Hegemony would love that.

[KenoDurkster]

Well... FAN got a 'Victory Lap'. So yeah, you'll find most FAN members in agreement that this war 'solved' something.

this war ends and karma dissolves what keeps NPO from re-attacking you?

[Prince Yvl]

this war ends and karma dissolves what keeps NPO from re-attacking you?

They're not at war anymore, for one, and two, I imagine FAN will have treaties by then.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

PrideAssassin, you and your dictionary quoting reminds me of Slayer.

[Starcraftmazter]

It already has, alliances and nations in eternal war now have peace, and many others have come back.

/thread

[Matthew Conrad]

this war ends and karma dissolves what keeps NPO from re-attacking you?

A good amount of common sense?

[Drai]

It showed how certain alliances view certain treaties.

[Jack Diorno]

You're all utterly insane if you think this war hasn't change anything.

Before this war, we were ruled by NPO, and a tonne of alliances (IRON, GGA, TPF etc etc) which just mindlessly supported them which was boring as anything.

We now have a multipolar world, actual rivalries exist which make the game more fun. This war has accomplished exactly what I hoped for.

[Antetian I]

I'm glad this war came along because it shook things up, and as a game, the Cyberworld needed some new conflicts and conflagrations.

So lets cut the !@#$%^&* out of the equation, shall we? All this talk about justice and karma and multi-alliance-ism is making me sick.

The fact is that the NPO was on top when it was on top because it deserved to be there. It was shrew enough to separate its enemies and negotiate support from other large alliances to maintain its position of power. It has since lost that power because it failed to continue to feed that fire; maybe it lost its hunger, maybe it became arrogant and complacent, maybe its leadership changed and was inept. Whatever the case, the NPO lost this war not because it had been using mean and nasty tactics, but because it had failed to maintain the systems that allowed it to do so. By allowing the formation of Karma the NPO had already allowed for defeat.

Conversely, the alliances who attacked the NPO did so because the opportunity was there and because they wanted the power that the NPO had. They could only do this by ganging up and outnumbering the NPO and its allies and so they did.

The war has shifted the power around, yes, but now that the NPO has set a precedent of power such that it has don't think even for a second that the Karma alliances are content to sharing their power with eachother. Perhaps the middle level membership of these alliances were convinced by talk of justice, but their leadsership would be foolish not to attempt to try to use this conflict to further their alliance (and their closest allies) above all other Karma supporters. This is the prudent thing to do. Those alliances who do not do so will be overtaken, and the alliance that does this best will rise to power. That's all there is to it.

[AbysmalPea]

It guaranteed a war in the near future. For this I am glad.

[Pete McCavoy]

Disregard, Rant Replaced

Edited June 8, 2009 by Pete McCavoy

[Vol Navy]

Before this war, we were ruled by NPO, and a tonne of alliances (IRON, GGA, TPF etc etc) which just mindlessly supported them which was boring as anything.

The sad thing is, you probably actually believe this. If nothing else Karma showed the power of propaganda on the masses. Certain propaganda masters actually convinced a large number of alliance members that they were being oppressed by NPO and certain cronies (the 1/2 of Q who ended up fighting basically). They made it seem that no one was allowed to prosper on Bob due to the NPO just keeping the jackboot on their throat at all times.

Some alliance members, many of whom actually prospered through NPO/Q actions became openly resentful of NPO. I guess because they became convinced by their own Gov and other propagandists that they just couldn't do anything on Bob with NPO making off with their babies in the middle of the night.

The Q members attacked in this war made up less than 10% of the total number of nations on CN at the start of the war. It's hard to believe that people could be convinced that under 10% were keeping over 90% down. But they were indeed convinced of it as these very forums are a written testament of it in action.

As I've said many times in many threads during the course of the war. Karma = Hegemony because Karma is in large part made up of former Hegemonic alliances that allowed NPO to have it's 2 year "reign of terror" on the Cyberverse.

This war was simply certain alliances who wanted what NPO had, the top of the mountain, meeting up with grudge carriers in other alliances who wanted vengence and their plan to get to the top/revenge.

The vengence seekers just had to grin and bear up to being coalition mates with certain alliances who'd recently gave them a nice bit of the jackboot themselves. As they knew it was their only way to be able to topple NPO.

Those who seek the power position to run their realpolitik on Bob counted heavily on all these people wanting that vengence to make this Karma war machine go.

I do not believe for 1 second that this was just a jumbled group of alliances, who thought they didn't have the strength to win this war convincingly when the first shot was fired. I saw this because certain alliances would not have taken the path they did into this war without assured victory. They'd have remained with the Hegemony.

tl/dr: for this section. Meet the new boss folks, just don't be surprised when it's the same as the old boss.

My last topic, to those who insist on falling back on this CoC garbage as it has popped up from a certain poster in this thread and different posters in other threads.

I'm 41 nukes taken and 45 or 46 days into the war fighting 1v4 or 1v3 almost the entire way and I'm still out on the front. The same goes for many of my alliance mates and our allies. I think it's about time to lay that CoC stuff to rest.

Not many alliances on Bob have entered a war via a defensive treaty and taken the beating we have in any war in CN history and still refused to leave the battlefield after this long when they could have left a long time before.

Frankly it's highly insulting to me that I've personally shed 80,000 NS along with basically everything else besides my nation name, while my alliance has shed millions and our allies millions more to honor our word and we still have people calling us cowards.

If our involvment in this conflict at this point doesn't show our intent and commitment to honor a long standing treaty, nothing ever will. All we face from continuing our part of this war is the prospect of even more damage and then reps we will get on top of that.

Mhawk can explain why he left TPF for a few minutes if he wants to rehash that story, but it wasn't because our cowardly members revolted and refused to fight so he stormed out and tried to fight on his own.

[PrideAssassin]

Well, I'm perfectly fine with using botched language if it means not having to say that I'm in a bloc whose bloc of blocs is partaking in the greater bloc at war.

You don't HAVE to say it. lol That's the beauty of synonyms. Karma IS a bloc though, and it's bloc'ier than a Lego People Tetris convention.

I'll call it a wartime coalition if that makes you all feel better though.

[Jack Diorno]

The sad thing is, you probably actually believe this. If nothing else Karma showed the power of propaganda on the masses. Certain propaganda masters actually convinced a large number of alliance members that they were being oppressed by NPO and certain cronies (the 1/2 of Q who ended up fighting basically). They made it seem that no one was allowed to prosper on Bob due to the NPO just keeping the jackboot on their throat at all times.

You are the victim of propaganda here friend, My thoughts are my own, I became interested in politics after FAN got taken out and realized the sad boring state of politics of my own accord. This is a game and nobody was challenging the NPO, instead the mentality was to make friends with NPO and then walk around saying "NPO is my ally, therefor I have won the game".

Nobody was being oppressed by the NPO, just the people with the power to take NPO out, and take charge, never had the balls to do anything except be yes men.

Some alliance members, many of whom actually prospered through NPO/Q actions became openly resentful of NPO. I guess because they became convinced by their own Gov and other propagandists that they just couldn't do anything on Bob with NPO making off with their babies in the middle of the night.

Doubt they thought anything about NPO doing anything like that, they probably got resentful towards NPO because of the predictable curbstomps that happened again and again, it was boring for everyone.

The Q members attacked in this war made up less than 10% of the total number of nations on CN at the start of the war. It's hard to believe that people could be convinced that under 10% were keeping over 90% down. But they were indeed convinced of it as these very forums are a written testament of it in action.

The Continuum was keeping everyone not allied to the continuum down. Not my fault if half of Q jumped ship, they were immensely powerful at their height.

As I've said many times in many threads during the course of the war. Karma = Hegemony because Karma is in large part made up of former Hegemonic alliances that allowed NPO to have it's 2 year "reign of terror" on the Cyberverse.

The core of Karma is everyone at war with NPO currently, Complaints and Grievences, Superfriends and Co. We were never part of the Hegemony.

This war was simply certain alliances who wanted what NPO had, the top of the mountain, meeting up with grudge carriers in other alliances who wanted vengence and their plan to get to the top/revenge.

The vengence seekers just had to grin and bear up to being coalition mates with certain alliances who'd recently gave them a nice bit of the jackboot themselves. As they knew it was their only way to be able to topple NPO.

Those who seek the power position to run their realpolitik on Bob counted heavily on all these people wanting that vengence to make this Karma war machine go.

Pretty spot on there, except I love the fact that half of continuum turned on NPO, I really don't care what they did in the past, allliances can change their commitments, just ask TPF.

EDIT: oh wait lol, you are TPF

I do not believe for 1 second that this was just a jumbled group of alliances, who thought they didn't have the strength to win this war convincingly when the first shot was fired. I saw this because certain alliances would not have taken the path they did into this war without assured victory. They'd have remained with the Hegemony.

100% true, everyone knew where the pieces were going to fall before they did. Everyone except NPO it seems.

Edited June 8, 2009 by jack diorno

[PrideAssassin]

The core of Karma is everyone at war with NPO currently, Complaints and Grievences, Superfriends and Co. We were never part of the Hegemony.

Interesting to see a few ex-SUPAH-EVIL HEGEMONY O' DOOMZ! alliances currently at war with NPO.

So... The core of "Karma" comprises elements of Q?

lol

K, I think I have it!

[Roadie]

The Continuum was keeping everyone not allied to the continuum down. Not my fault if half of Q jumped ship, they were immensely powerful at their height.

I really must ask how 10% kept 90% down and how you can still make that claim after Karma has proven it false by stomping hegemony over a small thing like protecting a spy. In light of that fact, I don't see how hegemony ever kept anyone down.