Spying

[Sumeragi]

To quote someone on IRC:

I say if you cant be arsed to make a half-***ed attempted at RPing how you got a spy into a nation, screw your odds ;o

I have to say I agree with the above person.

Now, I have no beef with people listening on with impunity with high technology, but assuming that high IG odds automatically translates into high penetration odds is very strange, to say the least. It is similar to saying that the US can send Anglo-Saxon spies into North Korea without being caught at all: Highly unrealistic.

Therefore, I believe that although IG odds should be used at all times for electronic spying, one has to actually RP a spy realistically for it to be recognized.

[Sargun II]

IG odds are IG odds.

Don't like it? PM admin. Otherwise stop trying to change things to your benefit.

[Tahsir]

I think the last thing we want to see is another Tahoe spy fall out of a tree *cough*

[TheStig]

Odds should be based more on the ability to RP or else your strength within roleplaying is simply determined by your IG stats, and not your ability as a RPer.

[Subtleknifewielder]

IG odds are IG odds.

Don't like it? PM admin. Otherwise stop trying to change things to your benefit.

Sargun, newsflash. I happen to agree with her, and it has nothing to do with gaining an advantage. Implimenting this will make it harder to infiltrate her systems...but I've done it in a legitimite manner.

[Lynneth]

IG odds are IG odds.

Don't like it? PM admin. Otherwise stop trying to change things to your benefit.

This.

Also, make less OOC threads and more IC, Sumer.

[Subtleknifewielder]

This.

Also, make less OOC threads and more IC, Sumer.

So how WOULD you get a cracker-white caucasian guy to successfully infiltrate a nation of, say, Africans of a particularly dark skin tone?

[Shadowsage]

Reverse Michael Jackson? Pick a new spy?

[Sarah Tintagyl]

So how WOULD you get a cracker-white caucasian guy to successfully infiltrate a nation of, say, Africans of a particularly dark skin tone?

The problem is is that everyone talks so much about globalization and how they can interfere in everyone's policies. Even today, foreigners can be found in every country on Earth. So while you will see white men in Africa, its not like their the only ones. The problem I have with Sumer's idea is that, odds are still important to be RPed. This is how I think it should be done. Really the same way nukes are down. You tell a GM or a neutral part to go on a random number generator and tell them your stats. Then they tell you if the operation was a success. That's the easy part, the hard part comes from then you have to RP them getting in in a creative way.

Impregnable fortresses aren't fair to the community and they can't be done in real life. If you want to talk about a closed nation that everyone is the same fine. But you have to realize that if your people are very hostile to foreigners, spies or not then people aren't going to want to go there. If no one wants to go there, then you have closed borders and soon you find yourself very isolated from the world. My problem with closed nations, most closed nations today are extremely hated and extremely volatile.

Likewise diversity can be dangerous for spying, but I mean I'll be really shocked if people change anything. I don't spy on people, I don't see the point. But that's just me.

[Shadowsage]

See, I approached it the same way that Sumeragi did; an ethnically homogeneous society with foreigners allowed only in positions of little power.

[LeVentNoir]

IG odds are IG odds.

Don't like it? PM admin. Otherwise stop trying to change things to your benefit.

IG odds are IG odds.

No nation is invulnerable, and since pretty much all human factors are arbitrary, and hence able to be spammed like sumeragi did, then IG odds are the best indicator.

[Sargun II]

Sargun, newsflash. I happen to agree with her, and it has nothing to do with gaining an advantage. Implimenting this will make it harder to infiltrate her systems...but I've done it in a legitimite manner.

See, I approached it the same way that Sumeragi did; an ethnically homogeneous society with foreigners allowed only in positions of little power.

And what happens when someone gets bribed? Human nature - greed. You can't control everything. We've had successful spies who didn't need to be in a position of power to gain information - they needed to know someone. We've spy on North Korea all the time and they know about it. We publicly declare we're spying on North Korea and they can't stop it sometimes.

[Voodoo Nova]

IG odds are IG odds.

No nation is invulnerable, and since pretty much all human factors are arbitrary, and hence able to be spammed like sumeragi did, then IG odds are the best indicator.

Since when can someone RP in someone's land without their permission?

[Manetheren]

IG odds should be used at all times. Everybody is susceptible to spying. Everyone. I am. You are.

I think the last thing we want to see is another Tahoe spy fall out of a tree *cough*

Any actual actions "spies" of mine have done are with the consent of the people involved. Granted I RP that I have spies just about everywhere, and their effectiveness depends on IG odds.

[Sumeragi]

Sargun, newsflash. I happen to agree with her, and it has nothing to do with gaining an advantage. Implimenting this will make it harder to infiltrate her systems...but I've done it in a legitimite manner.

Subtle is a great example of how my nation isn't impregnable. Lynneth would also have bypassed the barriers if I hadn't closed the loophole for him. The thing to remember is that I write classified RPs in the viewpoint of the insider. The KOI is frozen to think that no Kyokujitsujin would betray the nation, which makes it easy to enter if you RP it right.

The problem I'm pointing out with IG odds is that it takes out the RPing factor of espionage. Now, doing electronic/visual spying is fair game, but just as the US can't send in much spies into North Korea, there needs to be a good background for RPing spies.

In short, HUMINT should be separate from pure IG odds.

Edited June 5, 2009 by Sumeragi

[HHAYD]

Although IG spying odds should be still be used in the RP spying, the RPer can also twist the spying odds a bit with creativity rather than saying, "ZOMG! I HAZ SPIED YOUR NATION! LOLOL!"

[LeVentNoir]

Since when can someone RP in someone's land without their permission?

Ever since war? The rule is you are not allowed to rp their people.

Subtle is a great example of how my nation isn't impregnable. Lynneth would also have bypassed the barriers if I hadn't closed the loophole for him.

No, anyone can get a spy in anywhere. The chances may be low but they are there.

The thing to remember is that I write classified RPs in the viewpoint of the insider. The KOI is frozen to think that no Kyokujitsujin would betray the nation, which makes it easy to enter if you RP it right.

Yes, you simply need to be one of the very few nations which haven't had their Kyokujitsujin's god mod'dly yo yo'd home.

The problem I'm pointing out with IG odds is that it takes out the RPing factor of espionage. Now, doing electronic/visual spying is fair game, but just as the US can't send in much spies into North Korea, there needs to be a good background for RPing spies.

No, you simply roll the odds first then Rp it. Anyone can get spies in anywhere. Just roll the odds then RP the result, if it works, it will work in RP, else the spy is likely to come to a sticky end.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Alright, I really disagree that we should use only in game odds to determine spy success. People who RP greater security should have the benefit of it influencing their RP. This is CNRP, so RP quality and quantity should count for something. The people who put time into RP should always, in my book, have some benefit against the big, bad, lazy RPers who just happen to have higher NS.

I'm not saying throw in-game out the window, but really, RP has to count for something.

[HHAYD]

Alright, I really disagree that we should use only in game odds to determine spy success. People who RP greater security should have the benefit of it influencing their RP. This is CNRP, so RP quality and quantity should count for something. The people who put time into RP should always, in my book, have some benefit against the big, bad, lazy RPers who just happen to have higher NS.

I'm not saying throw in-game out the window, but really, RP has to count for something.

Agreed. RPers who put efforts into RPing the spying of another nation deserve to have a better spying odds, rather than simply stating the sentence I posted above.

[LeVentNoir]

Alright, I really disagree that we should use only in game odds to determine spy success. People who RP greater security should have the benefit of it influencing their RP. This is CNRP, so RP quality and quantity should count for something. The people who put time into RP should always, in my book, have some benefit against the big, bad, lazy RPers who just happen to have higher NS.

I'm not saying throw in-game out the window, but really, RP has to count for something.

Ok, a few simple likes of RP will stop anyone placing spies in my country.

"Whenever anybody enters a room, they place their finger, a blood sample is taken and if their DNA is not on the database, the are instantly executed by lethal electric shock. (Max one test per hour)"

One line of RP, an extra paragraph or two to explain, two more posts to fix in stone, and not one human spy will get in.

Of course, thats a complete godmod, but there are other systems equally as ridiculous and easy to RP, and the point is that you can RP anything, however, there is always a way around, and anyone can find it. Just roll the Ig odds.

Edited June 5, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[HHAYD]

Ok, a few simple likes of RP will stop anyone placing spies in my country.

"Whenever anybody enters room, they place their finger, a blood sample is taken and if their DNA is not on the database, the are instantly executed by lethal electric shock. (Max one test per hour)"

One line of RP, an extra paragraph or two to explain, two more posts to fix in stone, and not one human spy will get in.

I think he meant months of RPing a security system that will reduce the chance of a spy getting in, not stopping all of them.

EDIT: You do realize that a hacker might able to force the security door open remotely, correct?

Edited June 5, 2009 by HHAYD

[LeVentNoir]

I think he meant months of RPing a security system that will reduce the chance of a spy getting in, not stopping all of them.

EDIT: You do realize that a hacker might able to force the security door open remotely, correct?

Yeah, thats fine, however so many people go far too far and just get into godmod areas.

I did say a bit more, thing like expanding it could render it quite impregnable to anything but brute force.

[Uberstein]

Alright, I really disagree that we should use only in game odds to determine spy success. People who RP greater security should have the benefit of it influencing their RP. This is CNRP, so RP quality and quantity should count for something. The people who put time into RP should always, in my book, have some benefit against the big, bad, lazy RPers who just happen to have higher NS.

I'm not saying throw in-game out the window, but really, RP has to count for something.

This.

It's like someone saying "I have higher odds, thus I gain entry into your underground cities" if I was Ubersteinia again. It makes no sense.

You would need an extensive plan to get in. I had checkpoints, personally chosen workers, and extreme loyalty.

Trying to remotely hack open a door is silly, it's a closed system, you aren't going to open an electronic door with the internet.

Edited June 5, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[HHAYD]

Yeah, thats fine, however so many people go far too far and just get into godmod areas.

I did say a bit more, thing like expanding it could render it quite impregnable to anything but brute force.

Nah, overloading your security system is possible, even though you have the most advanced ones because I have never seen a program without any security holes in it.

[LeVentNoir]

This.

It's like someone saying "I have higher odds, thus I gain entry into your underground cities" if I was Ubersteinia again. It makes no sense.

Thats plain stupid. The better way would be I wish to spy on you, lets have a GM roll odds, then do an Rp about the outcome.