TPF notice.

[Archon]

It should be noted that slayer disobeyed orders to attack and stagger archon

Hail the Artolian war machine! B)

[pezstar]

Well slayer also enjoys Operator status in our IRC channel as well. Does that mean he has as much say as a member? No. It means that he's never online so it's not a pressing matter that needed to be handled.

Speaking of which, why would slayer having any status in any TPF channel have an effect on you, Sponge or tLC/Frostbite? I don't see anyone from Frostbite in there (could be wrong) and Slayer allows (usually) even his most ardent haters in the channel. Even Astronaut Jones/Greenacres is in the channel.

A rational conclusion is that Sponge/tLC wanted to publicly take a parting shot at Slayer.

A far more logical (and correct) conclusion is that Sponge/tLC wanted to ensure that Slayer is actually leaving the game rather than fake leaving for the 4th time, and no longer had the protection of TPF. I can say this with confidence because I was there.

I'd also like to point out that your "rational conclusion" is complete nonsense because this post that made it public was posted by TPF. Sponge handled it privately. I'm sure that tLC will be getting an apology from you shortly.

[Roadie]

So a TPF member gowes rogue and attacks Songe and Bobs latest bloc acts like panties over it threatening to declare war if he isn't removed from forum access?

I'm almost sure I don't recall anyone throwing a similar tantrum when Trohl went rogue to attack TPF.

[maxnmike]

Personally, I don't know what the big deal is with the OP's in a public irc channel is. I know of at least a couple of alliances that give OP's to their allies, friends, former members (I was banned from a couple of public channels by someone who was not in the alliance of said channels lol). I view public channels kind of like the corner bar and the channel OP's as the bouncers, As long as they don't act like asshats and abuse the OPs, who cares?

[Tygaland]

Well slayer also enjoys Operator status in our IRC channel as well. Does that mean he has as much say as a member? No. It means that he's never online so it's not a pressing matter that needed to be handled.

Speaking of which, why would slayer having any status in any TPF channel have an effect on you, Sponge or tLC/Frostbite? I don't see anyone from Frostbite in there (could be wrong) and Slayer allows (usually) even his most ardent haters in the channel. Even Astronaut Jones/Greenacres is in the channel.

A rational conclusion is that Sponge/tLC wanted to publicly take a parting shot at Slayer.

Umm, because Slayer attacked Sponge and KingPenchuk citing he quit TPF (you know, he WAS a member of TPF before he quit). If he quit TPF and had his root admin and channel operator status removed then he would be treated as a rogue. If he maintained the access he had then he would be considered a member of TPF by the Liquor Cabinet and their allies in Frostbite.

Seeing as mhawk and Slayer have made moves to alleviate the issue it is no longer an issue. However, Sponge's request was not an overreaction, it was commonsense.

[Roadie]

A far more logical (and correct) conclusion is that Sponge/tLC wanted to ensure that Slayer is actually leaving the game rather than fake leaving for the 4th time, and no longer had the protection of TPF. I can say this with confidence because I was there.

I'd also like to point out that your "rational conclusion" is complete nonsense because this post that made it public was posted by TPF. Sponge handled it privately. I'm sure that tLC will be getting an apology from you shortly.

Sponge is smarter than that. He knows better than to think that TPF might risk war with Frostbite just so Slayer could attack Sponge while retaining Double Secret Membership in TPF.

Methinks this issue was a minor one that got blown up.

[Matthew Conrad]

Considering how pretty reasonable both parties were in dealing with each other, I'm surprised this has now turned into a thread about ES and some of his prior history. I thought we actually had a thread specifically for ES a while back

[Proxian Empire]

So a TPF member gowes rogue and attacks Songe and Bobs latest bloc acts like panties over it threatening to declare war if he isn't removed from forum access?

I'm almost sure I don't recall anyone throwing a similar tantrum when Trohl went rogue to attack TPF.

Sorry do you mean the former leader of TPF who has admin powers and access to virtually everything TPF related? Insulting us (with spelling errors) without understanding the situation really just makes you look unprofessional.

[Vasuda]

A far more logical (and correct) conclusion is that Sponge/tLC wanted to ensure that Slayer is actually leaving the game rather than fake leaving for the 4th time, and no longer had the protection of TPF. I can say this with confidence because I was there.

I'd also like to point out that your "rational conclusion" is complete nonsense because this post that made it public was posted by TPF. Sponge handled it privately. I'm sure that tLC will be getting an apology from you shortly.

From what I can recall of the past threads involving Slayer's leadership status in TPF, it was always said previously that he was stepping down from government, but would remain in TPF. This is the only time that he has claimed to actually be leaving the game, IIRC.

And why the hell should anyone apologize to you?

[Roadie]

Umm, because Slayer attacked Sponge and KingPenchuk citing he quit TPF (you know, he WAS a member of TPF before he quit). If he quit TPF and had his root admin and channel operator status removed then he would be treated as a rogue. If he maintained the access he had then he would be considered a member of TPF by the Liquor Cabinet and their allies in Frostbite.

Seeing as mhawk and Slayer have made moves to alleviate the issue it is no longer an issue. However, Sponge's request was not an overreaction, it was commonsense.

I disagree. IRC is not CN. If say, STA or any other alliance wanted to let former member into their private channel, this does not mean they are still members.

Personally, I would have no problem with Slayer hanging out in our private channel if he wanted.

Also, yes. Sponge asking for some sort of reassurance is completely reasonable.

[Tygaland]

Sponge is smarter than that. He knows better than to think that TPF might risk war with Frostbite just so Slayer could attack Sponge while retaining Double Secret Membership in TPF.

Methinks this issue was a minor one that got blown up.

Who was it that made it public again? Sponge dealt with it privately with mhawk and TPF.

[Tygaland]

I disagree. IRC is not CN. If say, STA or any other alliance wanted to let former member into their private channel, this does not mean they are still members.

Personally, I would have no problem with Slayer hanging out in our private channel if he wanted.

Also, yes. Sponge asking for some sort of reassurance is completely reasonable.

There is a difference between being in the channel and holding SOP access.

[mhawk]

I disagree. IRC is not CN. If say, STA or any other alliance wanted to let former member into their private channel, this does not mean they are still members.

Personally, I would have no problem with Slayer hanging out in our private channel if he wanted.

Also, yes. Sponge asking for some sort of reassurance is completely reasonable.

We really don't need to add fuel to whatever fire folks are trying to grow here.

However I would ask what would Frostbite's opinion be if we took NSO's position and merely said he will get no aid nor defense from TPF.

[bbrownso]

Umm, because Slayer attacked Sponge and KingPenchuk citing he quit TPF (you know, he WAS a member of TPF before he quit). If he quit TPF and had his root admin and channel operator status removed then he would be treated as a rogue. If he maintained the access he had then he would be considered a member of TPF by the Liquor Cabinet and their allies in Frostbite.

Seeing as mhawk and Slayer have made moves to alleviate the issue it is no longer an issue. However, Sponge's request was not an overreaction, it was commonsense.

So a veiled threat over something as meaningless as paying the hosting bills and IRC ops is commonsense. Glad everyone can see how tLC operates.

tLC: Do this. . .

Anyone else: Or else?

tLC: (chambers a round) Maybe.

for Pezstar: I apologize to Frostbite for stating that they wanted to publicly humiliate Slayer.

PS - I hereby insult Frostbite by making a generalization of Slayer's previous leaves of absence as a justification for making a threat against TPF to remove Slayer's ops/forum admin account.

[bzelger]

Methinks this issue was a minor one that got blown up.

Yes it is; you had a member go rogue, so Sponge made sure that he was duly expelled from his alliance, which always involves removal of forum access. TPF elected to make the matter public, and then Sponge was accused of overreacting here.

Now we're defending our guy from the original accusation and in typical fashion it's devolved into retarded bickering. Sponge handled this the way that anybody would. mhawk dealt with it appropriately.

Edited June 1, 2009 by bzelger

[Roadie]

Sorry do you mean the former leader of TPF who has admin powers and access to virtually everything TPF related? Insulting us (with spelling errors) without understanding the situation really just makes you look unprofessional.

Well, If we had known he was going to go rogue, all that hoopla about access would be relevant. It was rather sudden and as you know, being handled.

[pezstar]

From what I can recall of the past threads involving Slayer's leadership status in TPF, it was always said previously that he was stepping down from government, but would remain in TPF. This is the only time that he has claimed to actually be leaving the game, IIRC.

And why the hell should anyone apologize to you?

They shouldn't. I'm in STA. I see that you looked very closely at my Alliance listed right there underneath my name, over on the left there, before you decided to act self-righteously indignant. Good for you!

As for why the apology should be made, I'd like to suggest that you go back and read the post you replied to here, including the quote I responded to. If you do that, you'll see that a completely false accusation was levied at tLC. Go ahead. I'll wait.

[ChairmanHal]

A little bit of an overreaction on ES's part I would say.

It is pretty obvious that Slayer is leaving the game for personal reasons and having some fun on his way out. I think it is a stretch to imagine that this is a TPF approved war.

Common sense and respect. Learn it.

You are seriously saying that Electron Sponge is merely " a bit overreacting" in this case?

[08:34] <electron_sponge> if he's truly not a member of TPF his access needs to be removed today

[08:34] <electron_sponge> otherwise we'll be declaring war

You send that message early on a Sunday morning to TPF? What would he have done if no TPF government had been around? Launch his carrier bombers and send TPF's battleships to the botom of the harbor?

Way to throw your weight around, Sponge.

Yes it is; you had a member go rogue, so Sponge made sure that he was duly expelled from his alliance, which always involves removal of forum access. TPF elected to make the matter public, and then Sponge was accused of overreacting here.

Now we're defending our guy from the original accusation and in typical fashion it's devolved into retarded bickering. Sponge handled this the way that anybody would. mhawk dealt with it appropriately.

The man that Slayer had fought with in the OWF for like...ever...got attacked by Slayer. Awwwww, poor thing. Like everyone on Planet Bob didn't see it coming eventually.

TPF has done everything in this incident correctly, including making a public post to explain their actions.

P.S. Electron Sponge need never worry about me attacking his nation should for some reason I decide to depart Planet Bob before him. I long ago determined he wasn't worth a bullet.

EDIT: Additional content to avoid the dreaded double post

Edited June 1, 2009 by ChairmanHal

[Roadie]

There is a difference between being in the channel and holding SOP access.

Once again, we didn't know ahead of time he was going rogue. Hence his still having access at that point.

[Tygaland]

So a veiled threat over something as meaningless as paying the hosting bills and IRC ops is commonsense. Glad everyone can see how tLC operates.

tLC: Do this. . .

Anyone else: Or else?

tLC: (chambers a round) Maybe.

for Pezstar: I apologize to Frostbite for stating that they wanted to publicly humiliate Slayer.

PS - I hereby insult Frostbite by making a generalization of Slayer's previous leaves of absence as a justification for making a threat against TPF to remove Slayer's ops/forum admin account.

You conveniently ignore the part where Slayer attacking two members of the Liquor Cabinet caused this issue in the first place.

Asking TPF to totally remove a non-member from root admin of their forum to confirm he has actually left is not an overreation no matter how hard you try and ignore reality.

[Proxian Empire]

Well, If we had known he was going to go rogue, all that hoopla about access would be relevant. It was rather sudden and as you know, being handled.

You have just entirely spun around and said something completely different than before. We are aware that it was sudden, which is why we contacted TPF to ensure that Slayer was completely removed. We have always kept this private, it was TPF's decision to make this conversation public. I am confident if you were attacked by a tLC rogue you'd be asking some questions.

Sponge and I have been attacked by Slayer, and TPF have handled this well. Where are you going with this?

[Fallen Fool]

However I would ask what would Frostbite's opinion be if we took NSO's position and merely said he will get no aid nor defense from TPF.

If I had to guess I'd say Frostbite would throw the different circumstances angle at you.

You know how Hydro made a poor joke which Sileath escalated compared to Slayer going nuke rogue on two members of tLC's government. Plus, like Slayer was ex-government, an admin on your forums, and a SOP in your IRC channel, while Hydro held no such positions in NSO.

In the end however it's a moot point since apparently Slayer is quitting again. All this did was speed up the process of him extracting himself from TPF affairs.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[bbrownso]

Yes it is; you had a member go rogue, so Sponge made sure that he was duly expelled from his alliance, which always involves removal of forum access. TPF elected to make the matter public, and then Sponge was accused of overreacting here.

Now we're defending our guy from the original accusation and in typical fashion it's devolved in retarded bickering. Sponge handled this the way that anybody would. mhawk dealt with it appropriately.

Well, it was made public because Sponge gave a deadline before Frostbite would jump on TPF. TPF was essentially forced into making this announcement lest they get even more attackers. This is not bickering; you're being questioned on the motives for the actions tLC has taken. Slayer's admin access and IRC op status is irrelevant to everyone but TPF.

[OOC]Speaking of admin/hosting issues, can you ask Sponge a question for me? Does Sponge ever plan to release newpacificorder.net? Seems a little selfish to keep it and direct it to the NpO or MK forums. [OOC]

[Tygaland]

Once again, we didn't know ahead of time he was going rogue. Hence his still having access at that point.

Hence Sponge requested it be removed in line with him leaving TPF. See, we got there in the end.

[mhawk]

Asking TPF to totally remove a non-member from root admin of their forum to confirm he has actually left is not an overreation no matter how hard you try and ignore reality.

I think the only issue is we couldn't remove him. Without knowing where he is or if he would cooperate, establishing a short deadline is hard to meet. Luckily he did get online today, but had he not? That was the original point of this, the moment he changed AA he had resigned from the alliance.