When will the NPO surrender?

[Jens of the desert]

Edit: Sorry, messed up

Edited May 15, 2009 by Jens of the desert

[bzelger]

Weren't all the terms offered besides one accepted by the NPO? And wasn't it Archon who ended the peace talks?

I don't know, maybe my eyes are just lying to me.

They hadn't gotten to all the terms yet.

Peace talks were ended because the NPO was using them to buy time to jump nations into peace mode.

[Jens of the desert]

I don't quite understand your meaning

Well karma seems to be about white peace and letting people off easily for the larger crimes that they have comitted. (they aren't living up to an eye for an eye reputation at all).

So what I'm saying is that if they sink to NPO's level in how they essentially imprisoned FAN in their peace mode, karma will not be living up to the lenient nature it is trying to show itself having.

[Angrator]

Weren't all the terms offered besides one accepted by the NPO? And wasn't it Archon who ended the peace talks?

I don't know, maybe my eyes are just lying to me.

Wow. You were serious about the first post. Yeah actually that would be Karma if they got what they dished out to others. Although somehow I can't see the NPO lasting as long as FAN. The NPO is based on a cult around the Emperor. When the holy Emperor is sitting around 2,000 NS I can't see a lot of the low ranking nations sticking around.

What actually happened is that the NPO trumped up charges as usual and as usual refused to admit fault. This time however, they will get what is coming to them.

EDIT: Where did you get the idea that Karma is about white peace, sugar plum pies, and everything nice? It's about how everything you do will come back to you in the end.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Angrator

[neneko]

Weren't all the terms offered besides one accepted by the NPO? And wasn't it Archon who ended the peace talks?

I don't know, maybe my eyes are just lying to me.

All except one? Thanks for proving that you havn't even bothered to look into any of this and is just angry that you might not get protected by big brother npo on red anymore. Look into the history of the people you accuse of being warmongering and look at the terms of the alliances that have got surrender terms. Compare the terms to those in any of the last few big wars. At least have the backbone to be honest to why you keep trying to attack karma. Although I doubt you have any backbone at all seeing as this whole mess just boils down to that you want to be protected by a alliance you don't want to protect yourself. Your cowardice shines through.

[Emperor Stranger]

Wow. You were serious about the first post. Yeah actually that would be Karma if they got what they dished out to others. Although somehow I can't see the NPO lasting as long as FAN. The NPO is based on a cult around the Emperor. When the holy Emperor is sitting around 2,000 NS I can't see a lot of the low ranking nations sticking around.

What actually happened is that the NPO trumped up charges as usual and as usual refused to admit fault. This time however, they will get what is coming to them.

EDIT: Where did you get the idea that Karma is about white peace, sugar plum pies, and everything nice? It's about how everything you do will come back to you in the end.

Oh, I got that idea from the leaders in Karma promoting "change". I thought that the "change" they were talking about was removing an evil, corrupt dictatorship, not replacing it.

All except one? Thanks for proving that you havn't even bothered to look into any of this and is just angry that you might not get protected by big brother npo on red anymore. Look into the history of the people you accuse of being warmongering and look at the terms of the alliances that have got surrender terms. Compare the terms to those in any of the last few big wars. At least have the backbone to be honest to why you keep trying to attack karma. Although I doubt you have any backbone at all seeing as this whole mess just boils down to that you want to be protected by a alliance you don't want to protect yourself. Your cowardice shines through.

As I have said, I read through about as much as there is to offer on this war. I am sorry I wasn't actually there for the peace talks, but I read through the IRC logs and read many articles in the wiki and many threads on the forums.

After all that reading I am still convinced that even though the NPO wasn't right for starting all of this, it's still not right for Karma to promote change and promote that they offered peace and yet everything I hear is still hypocrisy. Neither the NPO nor Karma are in the right for this war.

WOLF is an official alliance now. I recently requested protection from FOK. We are pro-NPO, but we also realize that the NPO won't always be there for us.

[neneko]

As I have said, I read through about as much as there is to offer on this war. I am sorry I wasn't actually there for the peace talks, but I read through the IRC logs and read many articles in the wiki and many threads on the forums.

After all that reading I am still convinced that even though the NPO wasn't right for starting all of this, it's still not right for Karma to promote change and promote that they offered peace and yet everything I hear is still hypocrisy. Neither the NPO nor Karma are in the right for this war.

WOLF is an official alliance now. I recently requested protection from FOK. We are pro-NPO, but we also realize that the NPO won't always be there for us.

Karma never stated that they will give white peace to everyone. Criminals needs to be punished. That doesn't make karma hypocrites. Sending a person to prison for murder is not the same as locking up a innocent person.

You can try to justify your rants all you want. At the end of the day you just want to be protected by NPO but you don't want to protect them with anything besides your words. In other words you're just another coward kneeling to what you think is a greater power.

If karma was anywhere close to as bad as NPO has been your alliance would be at eternal war with karma for the threats you issued earlier. Thank your lucky star that you're not right about karma and be careful what you wish for.

[Angrator]

Karma never stated that they will give white peace to everyone. Criminals needs to be punished. That doesn't make karma hypocrites. Sending a person to prison for murder is not the same as locking up a innocent person.

This. Metaphor. Rocks.

[lebubu]

NPO already won.

[Emperor Stranger]

Karma never stated that they will give white peace to everyone. Criminals needs to be punished. That doesn't make karma hypocrites. Sending a person to prison for murder is not the same as locking up a innocent person.

You can try to justify your rants all you want. At the end of the day you just want to be protected by NPO but you don't want to protect them with anything besides your words. In other words you're just another coward kneeling to what you think is a greater power.

If karma was anywhere close to as bad as NPO has been your alliance would be at eternal war with karma for the threats you issued earlier. Thank your lucky star that you're not right about karma and be careful what you wish for.

So, you mean me asking FOK for protection first instead of the NPO is just me trying to hide behind the NPO? Actually, the only question I have asked the NPO since my alliance became official was whether or not we can be on the red team without any problems.

You can justify this war any way you want. But me as an outsider can see things people on the inside can't. If you don't understand that, then you need to stop arguing.

[neneko]

So, you mean me asking FOK for protection first instead of the NPO is just me trying to hide behind the NPO? Actually, the only question I have asked the NPO since my alliance became official was whether or not we can be on the red team without any problems.

You can justify this war any way you want. But me as an outsider can see things people on the inside can't. If you don't understand that, then you need to stop arguing.

No I think you went to ask FOK for protection because they're on the winning side. If NPO were winning there's not a doubt in my mind you would have been at their feet asking for protection. How this makes you any less of a coward is beyond me.

If you have some amazing insight into this conflict that the ones that's actually fighting it is missing you havn't showed it here. All you show off here is your ignorance.

[Vhalen]

Wow. You were serious about the first post. Yeah actually that would be Karma if they got what they dished out to others. Although somehow I can't see the NPO lasting as long as FAN. The NPO is based on a cult around the Emperor. When the holy Emperor is sitting around 2,000 NS I can't see a lot of the low ranking nations sticking around.

Actually, I think it's far less "a cult around the Emperor" than "a cult based on NPO's strength," though your point still basically stands.

Oh, I got that idea from the leaders in Karma promoting "change". I thought that the "change" they were talking about was removing an evil, corrupt dictatorship, not replacing it.

Despite all the quite obvious varieties in opinion, you somehow persist in the misguided thought that Karma is likely to immediately consolidate into a massive bloc and slide right into an empty throne. Even on the hegemony side of things, I think you're well in the minority with that idea.

[Emperor Stranger]

No I think you went to ask FOK for protection because they're on the winning side. If NPO were winning there's not a doubt in my mind you would have been at their feet asking for protection. How this makes you any less of a coward is beyond me.

If you have some amazing insight into this conflict that the ones that's actually fighting it is missing you havn't showed it here. All you show off here is your ignorance.

Right. It couldn't have been because the lines of communication to FOK were already opened due to the last raid by the rogue FOK nation, could it? No, that would make too much sense!

Seriously, if I didn't have an alliance to grow, I probably would have accepted an allies' offer to aid them in their attacks against Karma. It's not a matter of "which side do I think is going to win?", it's a matter of "which alliance will have the ability to better protect us as WOLF starts to grow?"

[Canehda]

if NPO' surrenders, I will be upset, They should at least go 2 years without surrendering....

IMO...

[neneko]

Right. It couldn't have been because the lines of communication to FOK were already opened due to the last raid by the rogue FOK nation, could it? No, that would make too much sense!

Seriously, if I didn't have an alliance to grow, I probably would have accepted an allies' offer to aid them in their attacks against Karma. It's not a matter of "which side do I think is going to win?", it's a matter of "which alliance will have the ability to better protect us as WOLF starts to grow?"

So you admit that the main reason you pick FOK is because they're on the side that will be better suited to protect you post-war then. It warms my heart to see people abandon their beliefs for protection. So much for your honor.

[Angrator]

Actually, I think it's far less "a cult around the Emperor" than "a cult based on NPO's strength," though your point still basically stands.

Despite all the quite obvious varieties in opinion, you somehow persist in the misguided thought that Karma is likely to immediately consolidate into a massive bloc and slide right into an empty throne. Even on the hegemony side of things, I think you're well in the minority with that idea.

I'm not sure about that. The NPO has put a lot of effort into maintaining an aura of their moral superiority, no matter how far off from the truth they were. They put a lot of effort into their hails and their propaganda. I think it ties in with the idea about the NPO always doing the right thing even if no one else can understand it. They prattle off concepts like honour, brotherhood, truth, etc, like it meant something to them. I seriously believe that they are convinced they are in the right. First the Legion back stabbed them, then GATO was out to get them, then ONOS, and as the bodies kept on piling up they just became more and more convinced about the cause. In my opinion, the NPO is more than just NS. They have a vision; they just can't see how warped it has become.

And yeah ALS is just a breeze blowing through the valley. Don't pay attention, he'll be gone soon enough.

Yeah Karma will never become a massive block. I think we're pretty loosely connected. Only the NPO really connects us

[Emperor Stranger]

So you admit that the main reason you pick FOK is because they're on the side that will be better suited to protect you post-war then. It warms my heart to see people abandon their beliefs for protection. So much for your honor.

I give up debating you. You, like many others in the Cyberverse, just keep reading into my posts what YOU want to read. I can't argue with people like that... It's just illogical.

[Tomcat]

They will most likely pull a FAN and fight from peacemode for two years until another global conflict gives them the opportunity to come out of peacemode due to everybody else being distracted and declare "victory"

[flak attack]

They will most likely pull a FAN and fight from peacemode for two years until another global conflict gives them the opportunity to come out of peacemode due to everybody else being distracted and declare "victory"

Doubt it. NPO doesn't have the same kind of cohesion FAN does. Many of FAN's members already knew each other before they came to CN, and they had something outside of CN to keep them together. NPO doesn't have that.

[Timoteo]

Put me down for several more months, for sure. They've got a lot of kick in there yet.

Do you think this war is hardest on their middle and lower nations?

[greatmagnus]

Put me down for several more months, for sure. They've got a lot of kick in there yet.

Do you think this war is hardest on their middle and lower nations?

Obviously, as almost all of the higher nations are in peace mode.

[Hydro]

I give up debating you. You, like many others in the Cyberverse, just keep reading into my posts what YOU want to read. I can't argue with people like that... It's just illogical.

Yeah man! Only idiots refute people! Keep on rockin

[Nathan Flech]

I think they'll disband in an \m/ type situation.

[Emperor Stranger]

I think they'll disband in an \m/ type situation.

Something tells me that the NPO won't disband no matter what.

[Olliee]

In a week, I voted.

But what I find hilarious is that if we had someone competent representing Karma then the war would be over and done with by now. But no, we didn't, we had idiots that didn't let anything get on.

You have to step back and reflect a minute; yes people, Moo is an evil dictator and the whole of the NPO is just some mad, hate-fuelled alliance that wants to stop people playing the game etc.. But, on reflection, it's not like that. They're just people. Archon and Karma were expecting the NPO to let CN take over their lives. No. That's wrong. Giving them a minute to agree to terms? That's wrong. Not negotiating? That's wrong. You can say that the NPO never negotiated, but then the NPO has never lost a war. If they surrender, it's a first. They may still be the No.1 alliance or No.4, but they will have lost and conceded defeat. That is a lot to do with the Pacifican legend.

But anyway, I digress. 1 week hopefully, and then afterwards there will be another war where alliances from Karma will fight each other, and Sparta will get a good hiding.