SSSW18 Surrenders

[Merrie Melodies]

Oh the horror D:

You are making yourself look like a fool. Sorry to offend.

If you see me a fool I am fine with it, just remember the institution you fight started like this.

And to the person suggesting I look up Karma

" the cosmic principle according to which each person is rewarded or punished in one incarnation according to that person's deeds in the previous incarnation."

You will get what you sow, just be careful what you sow

[Masterof9puppets]

True scoop I wasn't involved, if you don't want commentary don't announce it to the world.

Fail at trolling fails. You're fishing now.

[twodivine]

I'll preface this with the following statements:

I am not in SSSW18 government. This is my opinion and mine alone.

This is crap. DT offered white peace only days ago when MOON demanded hundreds of millions in reps. While tech deals aren't technically reps, SSSW18 is being obligated to sell 10000 tech to the alliances within 90 days. It seems that because we didn't bow down quick enough, we get to pay.

90 days is the established time but not the final time so don't get your panties in a bunch. We're all in agreement that as long as it's getting done then we're all stay happy. And it's not like you're giving tech away we are paying for it.

[Big Z]

Oh noez! We're evil. Tech deals in place of reparations? Oh man, that's so much worse than wonder decoms and insane tech reparations. Man, Karma really is worse than the Hegemony.

[lebubu]

You will get what you sow, just be careful what you sow

Tech deals.

[Vhalen]

Oh noez! We're evil. Tech deals in place of reparations? Oh man, that's so much worse than wonder decoms and insane tech reparations. Man, Karma really is worse than the Hegemony.

I distinctly remember Gramlins being hailed for this instead of the more standard "just give us tech" reps most other alliances had, in the War of the Coalition. Interesting, hmm?

[kingzog]

How very malevolent of you.

You are in the wrong alliance, friend.

[LordAkanata]

I distinctly remember Gramlins being hailed for this instead of the more standard "just give us tech" reps most other alliances had, in the War of the Coalition. Interesting, hmm?

People expect more of Karma than Hegemony, and so far everything has been white peace across the board. I'm not complaining, I see a win-win here.

[Posta0]

While tech deals aren't technically reps, SSSW18 is being obligated to sell 10000 tech to the alliances within 90 days. It seems that because we didn't bow down quick enough, we get to pay.

How are you paying? I am pretty sure at the 3 million for 100 tech you profit off that deal?

It helps us rebuild and it helps you rebuild?

I don't understand how this hurts you, we are paying you for the tech, we are not getting it for free.

[MaGneT]

I personally don't see the issue with the tech deals. I'd have loved to see SSSW18 get white peace, but these terms are not particularly oppressive. No, what interests me much more is that these terms had to be approved by Karma leadership. Judging by their reaction to the honorable terms agreed upon by TOOL/FnKa and DT/allies, it would appear that Archon and co. are attempting to prevent Karma alliances from giving up any more... erm... "Unnecesarry concessions". This will assure that Hegemony alliances "get what they have coming to them."

-Bama

Though I see where you're coming from Bama, and you surely do present a logical argument, it's not entirely factual. We had every intention of including tech deals to help both sides rebuild regardless of what Karma wanted us to do.

This is crap. DT offered white peace only days ago when MOON demanded hundreds of millions in reps. While tech deals aren't technically reps, SSSW18 is being obligated to sell 10000 tech to the alliances within 90 days. It seems that because we didn't bow down quick enough, we get to pay.

No one will be attacking SSSW18 if you're making a diligent effort with the tech deals and aren't done after 3 months. At least no one in DT.

If they do, I'll be jumping onto your AA and fighting against DT. Hold me to that.

[Merrie Melodies]

You are in the wrong alliance, friend.

Oh I think not.

[MaGneT]

Oh I think not.

A Sith who doesn't like malevolence?

I have to agree with Kingzog

[BamaBuc]

People expect more of Karma than Hegemony, and so far everything has been white peace across the board. I'm not complaining, I see a win-win here.

These are also the first terms that had to be approved by Karma command. Again, I have no issue with the terms, it's just interesting to see peace terms that must be approved by the leadership of a coalition. Mr. Archon was not pleased by DT and allies giving up "unnecessary concessions" to TOOL and FnKa, and I can't help but wonder if he instituted this new approval system in order to assure that future Hegemony alliances surrendering will "pay".

-Bama

[Merrie Melodies]

A Sith who doesn't like malevolence?

I have to agree with Kingzog

I have no issue with malevolence, it can be rather enjoyable. I also haven't been mindlessly hailing "KARMA" either

[MaGneT]

These are also the first terms that had to be approved by Karma command. Again, I have no issue with the terms, it's just interesting to see peace terms that must be approved by the leadership of a coalition. Mr. Archon was not pleased by DT and allies giving up "unnecessary concessions" to TOOL and FnKa, and I can't help but wonder if he instituted this new approval system in order to assure that future Hegemony alliances surrendering will "pay".

-Bama

Though I already answered the suspicion about the reason for the "reps", I'd like to point out that there have been other peace declarations with Archon and LM's signatures on them.

[bbrownso]

No one will be attacking SSSW18 if you're making a diligent effort with the tech deals and aren't done after 3 months. At least no one in DT.

If they do, I'll be jumping onto your AA and fighting against DT. Hold me to that.

My problem is the principle of the thing. Suddenly after our allies are gone, including TOOL (who was focused on DT), we go from white peace to tech deals.That awfully suspicious timing. My question is why? Was it because you knew that we were outnumbered completely or because we didn't bow down and surrender on your schedule?

[Jim Bowie]

Forgive me, but coming from an alliance that was forced to disband to the sound of horns and trumpets I can say that these terms are quite humane. SSW18 fought a great fight, lets not sully this by telling them they copped out on terms, I feel they did quite well given that they lost the war.

These terms are very humane, my god man, we are helping their post war economy.

JB

[BamaBuc]

Though I see where you're coming from Bama, and you surely do present a logical argument, it's not entirely factual. We had every intention of including tech deals to help both sides rebuild regardless of what Karma wanted us to do.

I believe you, and these terms are fine with me if they're fine with SSSW18. Tech deals at good prices aren't exactly oppressive. But thank you for understanding that when everyone has been getting white peace, and now terms have to be approved by Karma command and involve reps, it's gonna raise eyebrows.

-Bama

[BamaBuc]

Though I already answered the suspicion about the reason for the "reps", I'd like to point out that there have been other peace declarations with Archon and LM's signatures on them.

I was not aware of that, actually. Did any of these peace declarations take place before the TOOL-DT peace or involve reps?

-Bama

[Monster]

I believe you, and these terms are fine with me if they're fine with SSSW18. Tech deals at good prices aren't exactly oppressive. But thank you for understanding that when everyone has been getting white peace, and now terms have to be approved by Karma command and involve reps, it's gonna raise eyebrows.

-Bama

They're not subject to approval. The alliances on the Karma side have agreed to take consultation or have a Karma rep present when you see us sign. We don't take their choices into our hands. It also serves to make it clear that no harm shall come to the surrendering alliance from Karma as a whole for the duration of the war.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Nausea

[BamaBuc]

They're not subject to approval. The alliances on the Karma side agree to take consultation or have a Karma rep present. We don't take their choices into our hands.

In that case, I apologize. It just struck me as odd to see DT and allies sign a white peace agreement with TOOL/FnKa that Archon and co. are not pleased with, and then the next day we see DT making peace with someone else, but this time with reps and Archon's signature.

-Bama

[Kryievla]

Regarding the tech deal reparations bit, that can be a good thing. The Hegemony gave those out to alliances that had small nations and/or low tech, as it was mutually beneficial for both sides. I thought it good then, and I think it good still even though it comes from the 'other side'. More importantly, it seems the alliances involved are satisfied with it.

Congratulations to both parties on achieving peace.

[twodivine]

My problem is the principle of the thing. Suddenly after our allies are gone, including TOOL (who was focused on DT), we go from white peace to tech deals.That awfully suspicious timing. My question is why? Was it because you knew that we were outnumbered completely or because we didn't bow down and surrender on your schedule?

We informed everyone that the terms would not be same if they weren't accepted the first time. Even on that day it was first discussed with SSSW18 and terms were offered and turned down. When you turn things down then the terms will change. At least this set of terms is a joint venture for both sides to recover. It could of been worse to where only 1 side is paying for everything.

o/ Joint growth

Edited May 1, 2009 by Myworld

[MaGneT]

My problem is the principle of the thing. Suddenly after our allies are gone, including TOOL (who was focused on DT), we go from white peace to tech deals.That awfully suspicious timing. My question is why? Was it because you knew that we were outnumbered completely or because we didn't bow down and surrender on your schedule?

We offered white peace to SSSW18 once, it was respectfully declined.

Reps were considered far earlier, back when TOOL was in the war. And I mean actual reps, not tech deals.

Think of the reality rather than the principle.

-A tech deal of 3mil/100 tech tends to net a low-tech nation roughly $1,000,000

-MOON, DT, BH and LSR are offering SSSW18 an opportunity to sell 10,000 tech at that rate (100 Tech Deals)

-If my math is correct, we are offering SSSW18 $100,000,000 to rebuild themselves while helping ourselves rebuild

What is suspicious about that? We enjoyed fighting you guys, your leadership has impressed us, and you struck us as honorable. You entered this war on a treaty that you didn't waver in upholding. Against us or with us, that's admirable. We're helping you rebuild because we like you (at least, that's why I advocated this).

I don't see why people are criticizing this. This is actually better than white peace.

I was not aware of that, actually. Did any of these peace declarations take place before the TOOL-DT peace or involve reps?

-Bama

None involved reps, but I'm quite sure I've seen their sigs on other peace declarations.

[bbrownso]

Forgive me, but coming from an alliance that was forced to disband to the sound of horns and trumpets I can say that these terms are quite humane. SSW18 fought a great fight, lets not sully this by telling them they copped out on terms, I feel they did quite well given that they lost the war.

These terms are very humane, my god man, we are helping their post war economy.

JB

Perhaps I can enlighten you to my view. Below are the relevant portions of peace announcements I found in a few minutes of searching. I ask you to find another tech selling requirement.

All wars between the undersigned will cease immediately. UPN, FEAR, UCN, and Wolfpack will receive white peace.

Additionally, UPN, FEAR, UCN, and Wolfpack agree not to re-enter this conflict or offer aid either militarily or financially to those still involved in the conflict.

In exchange for this commitment INT, DF, TGE, IPA, ODN, and LSF agree to a white peace with NATO.

In exchange for their surrender, Invicta and Nebula-X will receive white peace.

In addition to this, Invicta and Nebula-X agree not to re-enter this conflict again via financial aid and/or military means.

Furthermore, Orion agrees to withdraw from its war against the NPO, and agrees not to re-enter this conflict again via financial aid and/or military means.

1. RDD will remain neutral for the remainder of this conflict and will not aid any alliances engaged with Karma financially or military.

2. RDD agrees that it shall not seek military action against former members who have surrendered during this conflict.

1 ) TOOL/FnKa and Sparta/AO/Brig/DT will end their current war.

2 ) TOOL and FnKa will agree to not declare on any alliances that fall under the "Karma" side until this conflict ceases.

3 ) TOOL and FnKa will agree not to AID any alliance that is currently fighting a "Karma" alliance.

4 ) DT will end their current wars with TPF.

5 ) Sparta, DT, AO, and Brig agree NOT to declare war, offensively, against any of the following alliances: IRON, TPF, FEAR, NEW, UCN, Zenith or NPO until the end of the "Karma" War.

6 ) Should an ally of Sparta/AO/Brig/DT be attacked AFTER this document is signed defence of said ally is permitted.

7 ) Should any signatory be attacked again in this conflict (TOOL/FnKa by "Karma", Sparta/AO/Brig/DT by "The Hegemony") they are allowed to defend themselves.

8 ) This agreement for peace doesn't effect Sparta's stance with the NPO in their current conflict.

9 ) Reparations will be arranged for any attacks made between signatories after 4/29/2009 11:59:59 PM

Zenith/NADC hereby surrenders to ACF/RAD/Argent/Umbrella/ASO/PC/RoK/CSN/IS and the Karma Forces. We herby applaud our opponents for their valiant fight they put forth and hope that good relations can be achieved after the war is over. We herby declare neutrality for the duration of the conflict, both aid and military.

Soldier shall be granted peace in all active wars as soon as possible. Soldier agrees not to involve itself in the current conflict for its duration in any way, be it by military, aid, or spy-attacks. Breaking said terms will result in the resumption of hostilites.

1) The Legion will be free to do continue doing what they have been doing, with the following exception. The Legion will be forbidden to re-enter the war under these terms. Re-entering the war will invalid this peace, and result in a re-declaration of war upon Legion. "War" includes foreign aid, declarations of war, and spy attempts. Legion may receive aid from any party not currently engaged against Karma.

2) The Legion will be under the protection of the undersigned alliances until this conflict has ended.

By Agreement of all parties, hostilities between The Foreign Division and The German Empire and its allies, FOK and We Are Perth Army, will end effective immediately, subject to the following terms:

The Foreign Division agrees hereby to remain neutral for the remainder of the current conflict between Karma and the alliances commonly known as the Hegemony, both by refraining from combat and from aiding any combatants in the current conflict.

The Alliances party hereto affirm their good faith in signing this Declaration, and agree by their signatures below that any of the member nations of the undersigned alliances acting in violation of this Declaration will be treated as rogues by their respective alliances and subject to any and all penalties as set forth in the charter of the alliance in question.