Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Leetopia II]

out of interest have you guys cancelled your treaty with NPO yet?

No, they clearly want NPO to be the ones to break it for them.

[LOLtex]

words

Please, don't attempt to play the victim here and insult our intelligence. You chose to attack, OV did not "conspire against you to force your hand". Are you telling me that OV, some nobody little alliance I'd never even heard of before has more backroom influence in Bob than the mighty NPO? (Note that this is not a slight against OV.) You chose to ignore our attempts at peace (in about the worst way possible, I might add). We've all seen the evidence, indeed, hell, we are the evidence. I don't agree with the "Karma" side of the war, and I don't agree with your side either. You'd be hard pressed to find a person in TOP that does. My only regret in this war is that I have to watch fine allies like Gramlins and IRON destroy each other because of your arrogance.

Good day to you sir.

[SpiderJerusalem]

And here comes WC. We couldn't have this discussion without you now could we. Keep on message WC keep on message.

Thing is, WC does have a good point. You don't

But keep on spinning. I am sure we will be hearing that you won this war in a year or so

[HeinousOne]

Branimir, Karma really is just a response group. Any other more permanent groupings do not seem to have had a chance to form up due to how quickly NPO gave Karma a reason to step in. When the OV situation began to unfold alot of folks couldn't believe that NPO was giving those that really wanted you guys an actual reason to push that forward so quickly.

Its pretty obvious TOP was Not those people and was trying to cease the situation that you started. Even if all that you claim about OV was right and that it was a worthy reason for a CB, TOP knew what would happen if such happened and they Tried to tell you guys that too. Perhaps if you guys learn anything from this war it is to actually listen rather then just talk. All that was, and is now happening, was clearly written on the wall for those that wanted to look and see. You guys clearly did not see such and now this is what you have. You really can not blame TOP for being miffed about how they were treated in all this. I would say be thankful that they havnt dropped your individual treaty and that they are offering you another chance to listen to them rather then just telling them how things will be.

Edit: grammar

Edited April 27, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Joe Kremlin]

It's a shame to see this arguing. Let's just get this war over with.

[ojiras ajeridas]

Reading more and more into this thread, I'm learning more and more how cool actually that big orange alliance is, that unfortunately ended at the other side of the frontline.....

[OverCaffeinated]

Deleted due to me being an idiot and getting alliances declarations confused.

Edited April 27, 2009 by OverCaffeinated

[LOLtex]

I have to agree with all of the above.

That being said, TOP did NOT have to jump into this war on either side. I'm sure it was that a plurality of their membership hungered to use their weapons on someone. It was the same kind of feeding frenzy that IRON had when it attacked the GPA. When you go too long without war, the troops start to get restless. This declaration wasn't in support of friends, it was to get in on the MCXA curb stomp.

Indeed we did have to, as our credibility would have been lost due to our UjW stance. After all, who wants to be treatied to an alliance that declares neutrality all the time because of conflicting treaties, even if their reasons are entirely justifiable? We had three choices, and each one damned us all. The fourth choice, peace, we tried to earn but failed.

edit: We didn't declare on MCXA. What are you talking about?

Edited April 27, 2009 by LOLtex

[Richard Rahl]

You can rationalize this as how you please. We were trapped by so called "karma" into this war. Their propaganda machinery working fast spinning things as to fit a certain picture.

I want to get this straight. You are saying that your attacks against OV, while we were mediating, is propaganda that karma created. That's what you are saying?

You have no idea about what you are talking about. This shall sting for many of us deeply as we do in fact care.

No. The NPO does not give one flying fig about TOP. You proved that when you spit on our collective faces with your actions.

The so called "karma" propaganda stunt from where they jumped start this war is not about what I care here. As stated you rationalize your decision how you wish to.

No. The NPO started this war. There is no way you can claim otherwise. None.

I am acknowledging that our close friendship build over the years is over. And on this sad way, from my point of view.

I also acknowledge that the NPO managed to destroy in one night, what was a years long friendship.

------------------------------------------

I was on the TOP side that was, for lack of a better term, "pro" NPO. I felt you had a legitimate reason to go to war with OV, and still feel that karma are a bunch of self serving, opportunistic hypocrites that are bandwaggoning on the NPO for the lulz.

But when you declared while we were mediating, you destroyed any trust I had in the NPO. You literally treated us like garbage and to this day have not apologized for it. The NPO actually believes that their actions were perfectly ok, and pretend that they didn't know the position that they were putting TOP in. This is a further insult to us.

Even with all that, I still was on the "pro" NPO side. I argued that maybe you didn't realize what you had done to your allies. But your posts, blatantly lying and trying to make us look like the ones that started this, are only proving that I was wrong and the "anti" NPO crowd were right.

I don't care about any of the reasons the karma insects are attacking you. I care only about how you treated TOP. And you can guarantee that this is something TOP will remember for a long time.

[VIdiot the Great]

This declaration wasn't in support of friends, it was to get in on the MCXA curb stomp.

Well, maybe someone forgot to tell TOP this then, because it appears they declared on the wrong alliances...

[scythegfx]

Richard Rahl, I love you and I miss you <3

[Richard Rahl]

I have to agree with all of the above.

That being said, TOP did NOT have to jump into this war on either side. I'm sure it was that a plurality of their membership hungered to use their weapons on someone. It was the same kind of feeding frenzy that IRON had when it attacked the GPA. When you go too long without war, the troops start to get restless. This declaration wasn't in support of friends, it was to get in on the MCXA curb stomp.

A. Please show me where we declared war on MCXA.

B. You are not in TOP. You have no idea what you are talking about. We did not join simply to use our weapons on someone. There was literally no feeding frenzy. In fact, it was the opposite. No one was restless.

I think it says much about someone when they try to put words in other peoples mouths.

e;

Scythe

Although our two alliances may be at odds in this matter, know that my love and respect for Invicta shall never be diminished.

o/ Invicta

o/ Purple

Edited April 27, 2009 by Richard Rahl

[Ephriam Grey]

Oh Ephie, really? At least we still have friends who trust and believe in us, and arent stuck nuking 8KNS nations "for the hell of it"

Now, I'm gonna go all sentimental on you and say That we're richer in honor and friends than you will ever be.

And hey, at the rate you're going, we probly have more money too =P.

I've broken a lot of bonds, Scythe, but don't assume I have no brothers in arms. I promised VE I'd stick with them over NPO if Viridia ever came to war Pacifica. Given the promise was made while I was leading Andromeda, but I saw no reason not to hold myself to my word at least once.

If you ever want to carry through on those vague threats to destroy me, bring it.

<Scythe> On another note, youre the only ex invicta member i can find that is laughing at our predicament and hailing our enemies

See, the nice thing about being an ex-member of Invicta is that I don't have to do as you wish. Good luck to Invicta (at least, to Jorost and Haflinger), you guys are certainly doing the honorable thing, but I'm gonna say what I wish.

For that matter, I was more so chuckling at the military might of TOP than laughing at Invicta getting ganked.

[OverCaffeinated]

Well, maybe someone forgot to tell TOP this then, because it appears they declared on the wrong alliances...

I don't know why i thought top had declared on MCXA. My appologies and my post has been retracted.

[Dilber]

Couple points of contention. As a note, I no longer speak for the order, but I don't like seeing my former home lied about by people I considered friends.

1. There was an apology given by DM to TOP. Crymson stayed at the beginning of the chat that the logs would be made available to their membership.

2. Crymson admitted in the same log that OV did in fact reject the terms. Crymson had been told earlier that they would be the last terms given.

3. Crymson stated "appologies are meaningless at this point", and stated that what the order thought of the events from our perspective was irrelevant.

4. Crymson stated our defense of Polaris for so long proved we didn't care about what TOP thought.

You can all continue now.

[Proxian Empire]

Dilber, you surrendered? Considering you are personally responsible for a majority of NPO's unethical activities I find it utterly disgusting that you would bail on the people you led into this mess.

[Haflinger]

Dilber, you surrendered? Considering you are personally responsible for a majority of NPO's unethical activities I find it utterly disgusting that you would bail on the people you led into this mess.

Penchuk, look up his nation.

[Dilber]

Dilber, you surrendered? Considering you are personally responsible for a majority of NPO's unethical activities I find it utterly disgusting that you would bail on the people you led into this mess.

I have not surrendered, and will continue to fight until pacifica achieves peace.

[Proxian Empire]

I have not surrendered, and will continue to fight until pacifica achieves peace.

I would certainly hope so.

[JustinCox]

4. Crymson stated our defense of Polaris for so long proved we didn't care about what TOP thought.

Some defense.

I'm not in on the dark IRC conversations, but from my point of view, you ditched Polaris, actively working against her, in order to maintain the posture you created for Pacifica. If you had truly defended us, you'd have been fallen along with us, and it would have righted the wrongs which initially brought about the split between us.

There is a reason we called our fall the Second Patriotic War. The only thing lacking was the support of our Pacifican brothers. Thanks.

[Death666Angel]

This should be fun... although both of you guys have me in tech (our land got a lot closer last night despite my awful set of attacks)

Yeah, I was rather surprised to see that I won 5 from 10 TOP ground attacks this update without even being online. Love my nation!

-DA

[Bob]

Why does TOP make it difficult for me to do anything but like them D:

[Vilien]

Welcome Paradoxians. This is not yet over.

[Crymson]

Couple points of contention. As a note, I no longer speak for the order, but I don't like seeing my former home lied about by people I considered friends.

1. There was an apology given by DM to TOP. Crymson stayed at the beginning of the chat that the logs would be made available to their membership.

2. Crymson admitted in the same log that OV did in fact reject the terms. Crymson had been told earlier that they would be the last terms given.

3. Crymson stated "appologies are meaningless at this point", and stated that what the order thought of the events from our perspective was irrelevant.

4. Crymson stated our defense of Polaris for so long proved we didn't care about what TOP thought.

You can all continue now.

1. The discussion in question between TOP and the NPO (in this case, DM/Vektor) was adjourned given Moo's absence. The discussion is hence not complete, and so the logs have not yet been posted to our membership. Further, I can assure you that at the very least the vast majority of TOP's membership would find the apology in question as empty and pointless (see point #3) as myself and the other members of TOP government who were present viewed it to be.

2. I do not recall having been told that the terms Moo offered would be the last given, nor was I or any other member of TOP at any time notified that failure of the discussions in question would unequivocally lead to a declaration of war upon OV.

3. You are using my words out of context. I stated that apologies---such as the apology in question (see point #1)---for actions undertaken with full awareness of the consequences were meaningless; such apologies entail the one apologizing being not sorry for having committed the action, but instead simply regretful for the negative consequences that it brought upon them. Further, never did I flatly proclaim that TOP found the NPO's perspective on the issue irrelevant. I stated that we did not share their perspective on the issue, and that we disagreed with the reasoning behind their commission of the actions in question.

4. You are again using my words out of context. Darkmistress stated the NPO's removal of protection of Polar in August---many of the NPO's allies were at the time holding back from declaring war on Polar only out of respect for the NPO's wishes that this not occur---as proof that the NPO gave thought to the wishes of its allies. In response, I brought up the fact that the NPO had---against the wishes of the aforementioned numerous allies of Pacifica who wished to initiate military operations against Polaris---been protecting the NpO for a significant period prior to that. By this stage of the conversation, it was clear that the discussion was going nowhere, and it was decided to adjourn and re-convene at a time when Moo could be present to give his perspective on the recent events.

From what you've said here (all of it), I can only assume that you did not actually see the logs.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Crymson

[Doitzel]

4. Crymson stated our defense of Polaris for so long proved we didn't care about what TOP thought.

This is what you get for trying to play both sides of the fence.

And I'm pissed. I Godwin'd this thread 4 pages ago and not a single person noticed.