Death666Angel

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='11 February 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1265917031' post='2175307'] Seems like your director has the same view as you as well though, so don't worry [/quote] Oh yeah, you got me there now! I am exactly like Hefe, seeing as how I got Echelon in that war from the start, fraternized with the enemy while being an absent leader, just to join their ranks before that ridiculous peace was signed. Damn. [quote]Remember that time when Echelon stabbed an entire bloc in the back? Yeah.[/quote] How many times does Echelon have to say it was a mistake before you drop it? But I guess we have been way too straight forward since then for NpO, they seem to likes dem some flipfloppy, ey? [quote]get over it break ups happen. Just please stop the whole clingy needy thing, we can agree that its him, not you if it makes it easier?[/quote] He trashes Echelon, we trash back. Breakups happen, and we can forgive that (see how we are friendly with TOP and most our other former members?). But as Hefe can attest, he is a very special case for most of us. So no. At least _I_ can't drop it. But it's not like I'm following him around, just to trash him. So you keep him away from me and get him not to run his mouth over stuff that concerns Echelon, and I'm fine, thanks.

Like I said, half the people don't know what happened, so please don't try to argue here. [quote name='TypoNinja' date='11 February 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1265890151' post='2174542'] Now here's the bit you missed. Your direct treaty partners, the ones you expect to back you on the field of battle, they need to know if/when you are going to war. The level of disrespect inherent in not telling your allies you are going to war is through the roof, its the kind of over the top jerk factor that gets treaties canceled, but you may have noticed that bit already. [/quote] They were told that we are 99% sure to enter this conflict before we entered. And we never expected any of our allies to actually join this war, because we were sure that it wouldn't actually make a difference and they would serve us much better with post-war aid. But like both sides have stated here, communications just prior to war (and prior to the surrender) were not the best. But they were not as lacking as you are making them out to be. So yeah, kindly don't try to post anymore here? Also, lolhefe.

Sorry to see you surrender to FOK, HoL, but at least those are decent terms. And OWF threads never solved anything, half the people posting don't know what went on when, the other half thinks they know it and the third half is just missing the point . If both sides are open to discuss this and resolve any issues (maybe even for a restart of this once good relationship), we should let this thread die and continue talks on IRC and in our respective embassies. From my part (since I was Director when the first HoL treaty was signed), I didn't pay attention to a couple of allies, as they were Tela's baby and she seemed to handle them quite well (including HoL). Can't say when or if the ball was dropped and whose fault it was. But I know/think that communication just prior to your DoW was not that well, as most people in gov't wanted to let you sit this one out and help us after the war. That probably wasn't communicate. Anyway, o/ HoL o/ FOK (give us peace too, please? I has cheezburgrs!)

Better declaration that FARK, at least you have some wars to back it up . Enjoy!

o/ GGA Good to see you in the fray .

o/ Echelon o/ IRON Good luck to MHA, I hope the fight stays honorable

o/ NADC o/ IRON o/ MCXA o/ Echelon!

Have fun guys!

Yay, war! To Echelon, to TPF \o.

Sounds like you are having fun, Reach! Good for you! Send some missiles with my name on it or something ^^.

Hello thar, secksy ladey! But we all had a helluva good time, didn't we . Also, I approve this message, I mean treaty, yay GGA \o. Basically: old Echelon new Echelon

Sweet treaty! *splashes water over it*

That was expected, coulda saved TOP the trouble if they had talked to the alliance that previously protected them ^^. So funny .

I believe it is called "mass-hallucination" we all suffered from. Also, TOP and TSO secretly helped Echelon store some of their money and tech last I heard, since we were all so big buddies back then!

I have no issue with TOP or TSO or MK or GR or TDE. If I was in charge at Echelon, I would focus on the parties most involved in crafting and enforcing these terms, because they are easy targets when fully prepared.

Good to see Echelon be out of this war. I hope you guys pay off the reps soon, get to rebuilding and then kick some serious $@!. A list of alliances can be seen in the first post of this thread . Good luck to NPO and TPF and the other alliance still fighting in this war.

Now that's embarrassing. lol my bad mate.

In my opinion, the recent war was a catalyst for this event. Not because it destroyed the NPO or the status quo or whatever it tried to achieve. But simply because it was a big-$@! war. After that kind of thing there are always harsh reactions. Either people were fully frustrated with their alliance during war and they left. Or they felt that the war marked the end of a period after having repaid their debt to their own alliance and will try something new. And a lot of people also got back into activity through the war after months of quiet lethargy and decided to get more involved again by starting something own.

Now that's just mean to us mate . But I enjoy reading these kinds of statistics, thanks!

Oracomm left because of a dispute with me (not Hefe, not sure Hefe was a blib on the radar at the time even), the dispute being that he didn't agree with a statement I made, called me a Nazi and left. Cozmo and I have made up and I believe that was the only issue there was about that (and the reason for that was not dislike, but the feeling of betrayal which comes from being too close at times), and it was a promise, not a threat . The rest, apart from RLMMO and JayMay left in a normal fashion, but in such a small community, everyone who leaves, also leaves scars, that may be why a member leaving us seems to be more emotional, sometimes seen as negative. The two cases (RLMMO and Jaymay) though are quite interesting, nothing that can be discussed or summed up in less than a 10 page paper. We also have RLMMO people still in who expected that break, which was independent of Echelon. You make it sound as though Echelon and Echelon's leaders were solely to blame for everything above, with which I thouroughly disagree (but don't see the need to debate here, in public, with people who have no idea what we are talking about and with my memory being as bad as it is as well ). Though I can say that I did not agree with the paranoia fueled by some in Echelon and the pm stuff (I actually left in protest when I heard of it and went hiding in MKs application alliance at the time due to the real AA still being under terms and stuff... fun times ). Cut loose, yes, but also informed of it and they didn't see fit to look for a new protector in time (I remember posting on their forums about it 2 weeks prior to the actual cancellation). And also, if you sprout those things about the guys who are offering protection on a public board without confronting them on your own, what do you expect us to do, bend over and take more? And no one sicked PC on them, but I guess both sides are guilty of the paranoia thing . Edit: and just to make this more relevant to the general debate: up until TOP entered this war, I had not been in any offensive wars (probably because the enemies were all !@#$%*^) and I gained NS (through tech and land even though I was nuked). Then came TOP with Jenavia, Dr.Dan and a smaller nation (mea culpa for not remembering your name mate) and really tore me a new one, doing regular quads, making use of the nukes GOD still dropped on me and then the second round came (with Jaymay and others attacking me) and I was beginning to get tired and for the first time I turtled 3 days of those wars until I could get into peace because no one was interested in renewing my wars. It's not like anyone who believes TOP and Echelon are bestest of buds and have secretly made a pact during this war will listen to me.... but I owe it to TOP anyway, great bunch of fighters and good sports during the times I've met 'em .

We have one tier1 leader, two former ministers (finance and FA) and twi current (sorta-ish, transition) ministers (defence and FA) among those with 1k tech and more. 24 "innocents" and none of those who get elected into leadership among them. So instead of the stupid 1k rule, I personally would have liked a "we want the leaders to pay" approach, where they provide the names of leadership they deem most in the wrong (names are all over the place, wiki, OWF announcements etc.). But like I said, that is not their real intention in my opinion.

In the logs they said it was meant to make sure "the people in charge of this mess, the gov't and the older members pay the reps and not the mindless drone who just followed orders.", which hilariously it completely fails to accomplish . To me, it's a "cripple Echelon's military ability" term. Nothing more or less, but despicable enough to not accept the terms because of it.

If I read your post correctly, this term is worded incorrectly then. As a nation that falls below 1k tech after pay the reps partially will still be allowed to pay the reps. Once again, the reason for this term becomes more obscure. Edit: Crap, I was avoiding the OWF so nicely most of this war, now I get sucked in again ^^. Stupid, stupid me!

Echelon has not signed those terms, we have had issues with 2 or 3 items, the amount of reps was amount the least concerns though, but the opposition did not budge. However, I am not qualified to represent the official position of Echelon gov't and I myself surrender individually yesterday, after battling over 20 wars and spending nearly 2bill.

Reducing all your nations to sub-1k tech levels qualifies to me as alliance crippling.