Public Notice from Karma

[Shigh707]

I must respectfully disagree. And thank you for the cooperation.

LOL now i would LOVE to bring this up

PLEASE explain.

[BLUELINE976]

The war stats seem to support that Karma is winning this war quite decisively. I suppose you will want to write off the stats as biased or something, though.

Quality > Quantity, my friend. Personally, my opponents are doing horribly.

[neneko]

Do you think the alliances that support Karma will be against the next large change in Bob? Once they get things to the way they want them, will they be against change?

That is already implied in the question. When 'they' get things the way 'they' want 'they' most likely want them to remain that way. The question is who 'they' are.

The thing karma want is freedom for people that live on bob. Anyone thinking that karma will become a super power instead of npo and do what they did is dead wrong. Karma doesn't have signatories karma is friends defending friends. When this war is over karma will not exist anymore. That is why this is truly the best way this could happend. If it was a super bloc taking down Q then they'd most likely just take Q's place but since karma isn't a bloc this won't happend. After the war is over karma will vaporize and it's going to be up to each individual alliance to work for a better bob.

So karma do want the change to be permanent but karma will not be able to uphold it since there will be no karma after the war.

P.S I know the question wasn't directed at me but I just wanted to share my view on this.

Edited April 26, 2009 by neneko

[Ogaden]

The war stats seem to support that Karma is winning this war quite decisively. I suppose you will want to write off the stats as biased or something, though.

Whether the war is won or lost really depends on what each side is trying to achieve.

At the moment, NPO is simply trying to survive, while Karma seems to have no clear agenda past 'teaching NPO a lesson'.

Essentially NPO cannot really lose the war from their perspective so long as they survive, and as there is no mechanism in the game for actually removing an alliance from the face of the earth, both sides will emerge victorious in their own way.

[Random]

Not wishing to back a Valhalla member here but Tiggah (also known as the Eric) is well aware of the history, he was senior ODN govt during GW1 and is pretty well informed..if a little Biased

Don't attack people and jump down their throats just because they're new.

Besides it doesn't work anyways.

The quote above says otherwise..

[Ogaden]

The quote above says otherwise..

I stand corrected.

Still, my point stands. Too much disrespect being bandied about lately.

[Gruthenia]

Whether the war is won or lost really depends on what each side is trying to achieve.

At the moment, NPO is simply trying to survive, while Karma seems to have no clear agenda past 'teaching NPO a lesson'.

Essentially NPO cannot really lose the war from their perspective so long as they survive, and as there is no mechanism in the game for actually removing an alliance from the face of the earth, both sides will emerge victorious in their own way.

If you're already trying to rationalize your way into a victory you should probably start preparing for Karma War 2 as the root cause on NPO's situation here, their arrogance, will still remain.

[Delta1212]

Whether the war is won or lost really depends on what each side is trying to achieve.

At the moment, NPO is simply trying to survive, while Karma seems to have no clear agenda past 'teaching NPO a lesson'.

Essentially NPO cannot really lose the war from their perspective so long as they survive, and as there is no mechanism in the game for actually removing an alliance from the face of the earth, both sides will emerge victorious in their own way.

Man, it's like Great War I all over again.

[Barix9]

OOC: That, and you're not a mod.

Been a while, sense the last time the "your not the boss of me" hand has been played

[Random]

I stand corrected.

Still, my point stands. Too much disrespect being bandied about lately.

It's part of my nature to stand up for my alliance mates, well more of a habit. Either way I view it as a good thing.

[Nonvalid]

LOL now i would LOVE to bring this up

PLEASE explain.

I would appreciate you hold true to your word, and allow this to be 'dropped'. For the time being that is.

I hope you will understand that I will no longer be responding to your attempts to 'fish' me into an arguement.

[Lord of Destruction]

If you're already trying to rationalize your way into a victory you should probably start preparing for Karma War 2 as the root cause on NPO's situation here, their arrogance, will still remain.

And that statement wasn't arrogant? Stop pretending as if your side already has this won. We both have a long and difficult war ahead of us. The odds may be tipped in your favor, but there is a chance you will lose.

[tobiash]

yes, our individual surrender terms are basically the same thing.

Then Yes my advice is the same to nations on our side. But just as surrendering has consequences for nations on your side, so does it for nations on our side. The consequences will mostly be different from alliance to alliance. I can hardly imagine that NSO would accept me back if I surrendered under fire. But that does not mean that surrendering is always a bad idea for everybody, but it is a choice that most be made by the ruler of each nation.

[jerdge]

[...]

6. Decommission military Improvements except for those needed to keep an SDI.

[...]

I apologize if this has been addressed already, but this portion of Surrender Terms needs a definition.

Are Factories "military improvements"?

[Sarai]

What an announcement by the KARMA team, ( )

It's a pity that it has the following flaws:

i) It is premature to expect that infra losses equate to a need to surrender. But hey, if a few bits of chafe fall from the sides you're doing a favor to "us", (Campo hey, I'm talking about you traitor, have fun with your KARMA).

ii) One week? Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra.

Anyway, Fushun City State will *not* surrender and will glady, if needed, see you on the other side of ZI and a re-roll. I'm sure you have some juicy little nations needing a poking at a lower level.

<Salute: Pacifica and her Allies>

[oinkoink12]

I'm actually suprised about these decent terms.

Its a good move Karma, to bad the Navy term is in it. else i'd actually think about it.

[Monster]

I apologize if this has been addressed already, but this portion of Surrender Terms needs a definition.

Are Factories "military improvements"?

Why would they be considered as such? Their function is to reduce the cost of infrastructure.

[Tygaland]

I apologize if this has been addressed already, but this portion of Surrender Terms needs a definition.

Are Factories "military improvements"?

My interpretation would say no. To me, military improvements ould be barracks, guerilla camps, satellites, missile defences and naval improvements. Maybe intelligence agencies at a stretch but I don't see those as beng a major issue.

[Random]

What an announcement by the KARMA team, ( )

It's a pity that it has the following flaws:

i) It is premature to expect that infra losses equate to a need to surrender. But hey, if a few bits of chafe fall from the sides you're doing a favor to "us", (Campo hey, I'm talking about you traitor, have fun with your KARMA).

ii) One week? Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra.

Anyway, Fushun City State will *not* surrender and will glady, if needed, see you on the other side of ZI and a re-roll. I'm sure you have some juicy little nations needing a poking at a lower level.

<Salute: Pacifica and her Allies>

Karma does not support Eternal war, Eternal ZI or permanent ZI. As such we quite obviously don't want the war to last the next 2 years and it was be extremely hypocritical of us to do otherwise.

[Tygaland]

What an announcement by the KARMA team, ( )

It's a pity that it has the following flaws:

i) It is premature to expect that infra losses equate to a need to surrender. But hey, if a few bits of chafe fall from the sides you're doing a favor to "us", (Campo hey, I'm talking about you traitor, have fun with your KARMA).

ii) One week? Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra.

Anyway, Fushun City State will *not* surrender and will glady, if needed, see you on the other side of ZI and a re-roll. I'm sure you have some juicy little nations needing a poking at a lower level.

<Salute: Pacifica and her Allies>

Can you point out the expiry date for this offer of individual terms for me?

[Delta1212]

I apologize if this has been addressed already, but this portion of Surrender Terms needs a definition.

Are Factories "military improvements"?

No. Past attempts to paint them as such were just excuses to effectively destroy economic capability in the guise of military terms.

[Delta1212]

What an announcement by the KARMA team, ( )

It's a pity that it has the following flaws:

i) It is premature to expect that infra losses equate to a need to surrender. But hey, if a few bits of chafe fall from the sides you're doing a favor to "us", (Campo hey, I'm talking about you traitor, have fun with your KARMA).

ii) One week? Seriously.... As an NPO member, I wouldn't normally say this, but FAN know a thing or two about long term wars. You want this to be over in a week? You want to encourage the end? I would suggest KARMA grows some more courage and distances themselves from their Infra.

Anyway, Fushun City State will *not* surrender and will glady, if needed, see you on the other side of ZI and a re-roll. I'm sure you have some juicy little nations needing a poking at a lower level.

<Salute: Pacifica and her Allies>

Your side started passing out terms yesterday (possibly earlier, I just know of a few from yesterday).

[Sarai]

Karma does not support Eternal war, Eternal ZI or permanent ZI. As such we quite obviously don't want the war to last the next 2 years and it was be extremely hypocritical of us to do otherwise.

Thank you for the reply. I would state though that since no one really supports enternal ZI or permanent ZI except in the case of silly abuse like spying, then the only factor is "Eternal War". That would make sense to me as a member of NPO at the moment. It would appear our alliances have irreconcilable differences. Generally if people can't reach a good understanding... they continue to dispute.

For example, FAN still think we're arrogant NPO (rude name here) and we still want them to stop poking us with sticks and other such things. So we fight... (for a very long time.... :jihad: )

This so called "Karma War" here, is just a larger version of that isn't it? We all don't agree and now we're "wrestling in the mud" so to speak to prove who is right Although in Fushun City's Case, I am glowing green in a radiation war somewhere, this is still fun, and I belive in it, like you probably do in your cause.

Sorry, but I just see a surrender thread this early though as a sign of weakness. Perhaps I am deluded, but hey, morale boosted... my opponents want this to be over quicker than I do

Take care and thanks for the polite reply.

[neneko]

Why would they be considered as such? Their function is to reduce the cost of infrastructure.

It also reduce tank cost. It has been viewed by NPO as a military wonder in previous war terms so they have forced alliances to do without factories. That said I absolutely don't think it should be viewed as a war improvement.

Edited April 26, 2009 by neneko

[typa]

I don't believe that any of us, on either side, expect this war to be over in the near future. It is always good, however, to make ToS known for those that want them.

Sure, most people aren't going to be taking them, this early in the game. But, for those who are sad about getting their precious infra destroyed, it's always an option.

No one's saying that the terms are to be taken up immediately, they're just good to know.

Nice terms, Karma. Nice terms.

o/ Karma