Imperial Decree

[Denial]

The issue at hand is them having a spy within our private forums, not that they know our warchest policies.

You do realise that was never the accusation made against Ordo Verde, right?

[NEWBert]

That warchest calculator is pretty old, btw. We might as well be playing !@#$%*.

[James Wilson]

So, you attack OV because BC has a spy in you?

Brilliant political move.

[NEWBert]

You do realise that was never the accusation made against Ordo Verde, right?

yea yea shoot me for misspeaking. OV doesn't have a spy, they have a spy through Blackstone. As stated by Moo in the OP

Sethb of Ordo Verde admitted accepting a screenshot from the NPO private forum and, rather than informing us of that fact, chose to keep it in OV.

Edited April 21, 2009 by NEWBert

[Redcat]

From the logs leaked on tattler it would seem the whole reason for war was because an OV member 'knowlingly' accepted a SS from a Blackstone Collusion member about your war chest requirements.

But they are only part of the logs, the parts that electron sponge wanted to show, fitting with vox/electron sponge's propaganda.

[rsoxbronco1]

But they are only part of the logs, the parts that electron sponge wanted to show, fitting with vox/electron sponge's propaganda.

I've seen the full logs. The commentary certainly had a slant, but the material was all fact.

[Redcat]

The filter between brain and mouth is oft confounded by silly things like propaganda and bias. I sincerely doubt that currently, either side is able to provide a completely unbiased representation of the facts. Logs can be forged and on that note, I think we should all calm down here.

YAY, finally!!!!

[James Wilson]

yea yea shoot me for misspeaking. OV doesn't have a spy, they have a spy through Blackstone.

So, are you going to attack me or sentence me to ZI for reading the Tattler? Because that is basically what your attacking OV for and I must say if that is the case, your ability to come up with fake CB's is slipping.

[Venizelos]

redcat, even if all the stuff you're saying about OV is true, you're basically accusing them of

1) accepting information -not a crime. as wilson posted everyone who has ever read the tattler has done that.

and

2) lying -not a crime. I have the right to click links and I don't have to report to NPO when they demand me to.

the whole thing is BS.

accept it and the punishment that is coming.

[NEWBert]

So, are you going to attack me or sentence me to ZI for reading the Tattler? Because that is basically what your attacking OV for and I must say if that is the case, your ability to come up with fake CB's is slipping.

No you're speaking out of your rear now. Purely hypothetically, let's say NPO has a spy in the VE private forums. We steal some sekrits and give them to an OV friend who willingly accepts them and welcomes them. You then find this out, that they now have your sekrits and figure out they've been in contact and on good terms with a spy. You demand the OV member be punished, and OV refuses explaining that if you force action upon him you force action upon the whole alliance. OV continually stalls negotiations (y'all can understand why with all the treaty cancellations in the last week). After all offers are declined VE declares war on OV. Unjust? I think not.

And realize punishing NPO in this hypothetical situation would be a completely separate issue.

Edited April 21, 2009 by NEWBert

[Speer]

LOLNPO

epic phail

It's not exactly the most secret of things. Good job though, you really are top-class spy material. Bravo.

[Bralor]

No you're speaking out of your rear now. Purely hypothetically, let's say NPO has a spy in the VE private forums. We steal some sekrits and give them to an OV member who willingly accepts them and welcomes them. You then find this out, that they now have your sekrits and figure out they've been in contact and on good terms with a spy. You demand the OV member be punished, and OV refuses explaining that if you force action upon him you force action upon the whole alliance. OV continually stalls negotiations (y'all can understand why with all the treaty cancellations in the last week). After all offers are declined VE declares war on OV. Unjust? I think not.

And realize punishing NPO in this hypothetical situation would be a completely separate issue.

That's all fine then. We can, for the sake of discussion, accept this as true. However setting aside what OV did, one can also interpret the underhanded tactic of openly declaring war on OV, as despicable. Yes, you had a greivance with them. Yes, according to your camp, the CB was a legitimate cause for war. We dispute that, but even then, instead of doing the honorable thing, you did the blatantly arrogant thing. You misused a forum for open communication, cooperation and peace, for your own war aims. You used it as a stalling tactic yourself because walking into the ose negotiations, you knew or at least prepared for those discussions to break down. You were prepared for war from the start and would not accept anything less than such.

You sir, are a hypocrite, a fool, and above all, a mindless ideologue.

[uaciaut]

It's not exactly the most secret of things. Good job though, you really are top-class spy material. Bravo.

I take it you removed the link from your sig right? >.>

[SpiderJerusalem]

I dont know what other side was hoping to achieve with stalling tactics.

Ahahaha... Really, this is just too much

[Micheal Malone]

No you're speaking out of your rear now. Purely hypothetically, let's say NPO has a spy in the VE private forums. We steal some sekrits and give them to an OV friend who willingly accepts them and welcomes them. You then find this out, that they now have your sekrits and figure out they've been in contact and on good terms with a spy. You demand the OV member be punished, and OV refuses explaining that if you force action upon him you force action upon the whole alliance. OV continually stalls negotiations (y'all can understand why with all the treaty cancellations in the last week). After all offers are declined VE declares war on OV. Unjust? I think not.

And realize punishing NPO in this hypothetical situation would be a completely separate issue.

You realize when you use hypothetical analogies you should probably not use alliances involved, because then you just confuse yourself. Fact of the matter is, OV & Allies were demanding asking for fair treatment based on what NPO & allies considered a crime. So let me show you an example of an analogy used properly:

Hi, I've stolen your cookies. In doing so though, I've mixed your cookies in with my cookies. Oh look! You stole my cookies and found out I stole your cookies! You want me to throw away my oven, but you're not going to throw away yours! Well if you're not going to throw away yours, why should I?

(PS, extreme and irrelevant topics work best for analogies)

[NEWBert]

That's all fine then. We can, for the sake of discussion, accept this as true. However setting aside what OV did, one can also interpret the underhanded tactic of openly declaring war on OV, as despicable. Yes, you had a greivance with them. Yes, according to your camp, the CB was a legitimate cause for war. We dispute that, but even then, instead of doing the honorable thing, you did the blatantly arrogant thing. You misused a forum for open communication, cooperation and peace, for your own war aims. You used it as a stalling tactic yourself because walking into the ose negotiations, you knew or at least prepared for those discussions to break down. You were prepared for war from the start and would not accept anything less than such.

You sir, are a hypocrite, a fool, and above all, a mindless ideologue.

Yes, it is true the NPO War Machine is always ready to kick into gear.

No, it is not true we were war hunting. Hell if we really wanted a war, why would we purposefully attack an alliance in which most of our nations can't even get a target? OV obviously has an abundance of 30k+ NS nations not in peace for us to have fun with. /sarcasm

Seriously, I fail to see your point here. I'm not asking you to like NPO, I'm just asking you to see the facts here.

Edited April 21, 2009 by NEWBert

[boscher]

hold on OV, hold the lines

[Chimaera]

o\ NPO. War started on a valid CB.

I dont know what other side was hoping to achieve with stalling tactics.

Are you even aware what a valid CB is?

Hint: it's probably not accusing people of something your alliance is guilty of and then launching sneak attacks during negotiations.

[Ravnica]

No you're speaking out of your rear now. Purely hypothetically, let's say NPO has a spy in the VE private forums. We steal some sekrits and give them to an OV friend who willingly accepts them and welcomes them. You then find this out, that they now have your sekrits and figure out they've been in contact and on good terms with a spy. You demand the OV member be punished, and OV refuses explaining that if you force action upon him you force action upon the whole alliance. OV continually stalls negotiations (y'all can understand why with all the treaty cancellations in the last week). After all offers are declined VE declares war on OV. Unjust? I think not.

And realize punishing NPO in this hypothetical situation would be a completely separate issue.

We requested that sethb be expelled ZId one time and post a public apology. Our last offer was that sethb go through one set of wars with no apology and even that was refused.

Was anything said about the offer actually being "valid", as Archon asked?

[NEWBert]

Are you even aware what a valid CB is?

Hint: it's probably not accusing people of something your alliance is guilty of and then launching sneak attacks during negotiations.

Please refer to this post: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1437725

Attacks were not launched during negotiations between NPO and OV.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Please refer to this post: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1437725

Attacks were not launched during negotiations between NPO and OV.

And you've always been at war with Eurasia, amirite?

[Bralor]

Yes, it is true the NPO War Machine is always ready to kick into gear.

No, it is not true we were war hunting. Hell if we really wanted a war, why would we purposefully attack an alliance in which most of our nations can't even get a target? OV obviously has an abundance of 30k+ NS nations not in peace for us to have fun with. /sarcasm

Seriously, I fail to see your point here. I'm not asking you to like NPO, I'm just asking you to see the facts here.

What's my point? My point is that while you say that the New Pacific Order has never war hunted, why is it that not only do they declare late, they declare while conducting discussions under a flag of peace. It's inappropriate to assume as if everyone that digresses from this opinion doesn't possess all of the facts. We have what we see: a weak CB, followed by a war declaration that is both late and takes place in a peace forum.

I for one, don't see who you're trying to convince with your arguments. Perhaps it is yourself? I don't need convincing, that's for sure.

[Venizelos]

It's not exactly the most secret of things. Good job though, you really are top-class spy material. Bravo.

if your warchests are not a secret why is finding out about them reason for war?

are you trying to be illogical or is it just a natural talent?

Edited April 21, 2009 by Venizelos

[Micheal Malone]

Please refer to this post: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...p;#entry1437725

Attacks were not launched during negotiations between NPO and OV.

Attempting to spin a way out already??

[Morey 2k7]

But they are only part of the logs, the parts that electron sponge wanted to show, fitting with vox/electron sponge's propaganda.

So what parts are we missing then? You attacked OV because a member accepted a SS from BC, but then when the question is raised how you came about this information despite it being a private query it is met with silence.