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Definition of Spying


magicninja

The Spying Game  

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There were some areas I voted which I kinda see as grey areas.

Now active seeking via plants and informants, there's no question about it. That is spying, plain and simple. Black and white stuff there.

Knowingly accepting classified info without actually seeking it - grey area. This would hang on intent and the sensitivity of the information. If someone were to leak screenshots of, say, a ghost list of whatever alliance I was in that the time, I'd be like, "pfft! Who cares! It's just a feckin ghost list! I dunno why such-and-such is treating this like some Holy Grail of Espionage Win!" If it were, however, something from within the deepest bowels of classified information, I'd be like, "if this person shows any intent of using this against us, we'll have to do something about it."

Now obviously if you didn't know the info was classified, that is more the source's fault than the recipient, and the recipient should get off with no punishment.

Punishment. Here's another grey area.

For active seeking via plants and informants, I, like some people, put "Alliance Wide War." However, this would only be if it were an alliance-wide (or alliance-gov-wide) espionage effort in the first place, or if one person acted with the foreknowledge of his comrades and nothing was done about it.

Consider, however, a situation where someone was doing some of their own digging without the foreknowledge of his or her gov-mates/alliance-mates. If this person wasn't the alliance's leader or a triumvir/quadrumvir/decumvir/whatever, then why should the entire alliance be subject to punishment for the foolhardy actions of one person? (Just for the record, abetting or ignoring known espionage from one of your members is just as foolhardy as the actual espionage itself IMO.)

Knowingly receiving 3rd party info without seeking it? Also foolhardy, also a grey area in terms of punishment, because of the intent factor. Some people may simply be curious. Yes, curiosity killed the cat, but it's not worth ZIing someone or going to war with the whole alliance over. The most common scenario would simply be giving the offending part(y/ies) one round of war. But it's something I personally would handle on a case-to-case basis.

And of course, all this punishment is assuming the part(y/ies) involved get caught. :P

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This is obviously not related to a recent event concerning my alliance and its ally.

Why would you think that?

I mean, it's not like wars have been fought over spying, and it's just now that we as the community finally sit down and try to find out what it actually means.

Right?

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only purposefully seeking classified info is "spying" .

Agreed.

also the alliance shouldnt cause war over its members spying,just give them a very stern talk in any spying situation.

Depends. I see no problem with war over spying. But real spying, not just 'receiving information' whether on tattler or in a query window, and the civilised thing to do of course is to attempt to negotiate a reasonable settlement and only go to war if that fails.

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We must remember that the NPO and Co.'s definition of spying means they must have, under their definition, have spied too to catch OV 'spying.' It's not spying to get information from a source you didn't plant, knowingly or unknowingly. That or hypocrisy, you pick.

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1, 4, and nothing because everyone does this directly or indirectly anyway. Maybe not screen shots, but gossip between members and the like.

This is the first time I think I've ever seen a CB that went 'you received information from someone that spied on us, and you didn't care whether or not you wanted to see it! That means you're a bad alliance!' and yet, went and got IRC logs and did the exact same thing.

Edited by Ghostlin
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My nation is missing "A stern talking to" button, could someone point in the direction of this tab in game?

The PM button let's you give nation rulers "a stern talking to."

As far as the poll... actively seeking info = spying. Receiving info... depends on whether this happens repeatedly or whether someone was just, like, spewing the info all over the place. Most of the time, I would say that is Not spying.

Repercussions: Active can be alliance war, ZI, or war for a certain time length (longer or shorter than the time to ZI, depending on perpetrator's attitude).

Non-active, from stern talking to, to apology, to removal from governmental office, depending on the nature of the crime.

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