Joint TOP/TSO Announcement

[Vilien]

I seriously have nothing against these alliances, sure they don't like one of our allies, perhaps they even hate one of our allies. If they want to start disliking us because of that, there's not much we can do. Sure we can try to explain and smile and nod graciously, but if that doesn't work there's not much else we can do. I don't see the point in going out and creating sides out of thin air.

You're right, there's really no point in conjecture here. Good luck to TOP and her allies.

[Sabioviejo]

Paradox Vult!

Also, I stole Sams cookies!

[WalkerNinja]

Stating an opinion doesn't always have to serve a purpose. Many, and frankly they are justified, think this whole TSO debacle was a cluster of poor choices and ineptitude that peaked into a very well respected alliance making a very poor choice. Granted TOP was not given full disclosure from the get go, but once things were made clear they didn't exactly go out of their way to do good on their mistake. By doing good, I imply withdrawing a protectorate agreement that was made under false pretenses. In fact, that seems like one of those 'duh' moments when you decide to rescind an offer after you have been misled.

However, TOP is sovereign, they do what they want, and rightfully so. Just don't expect much praise, and I wouldn't expect all of your close allies/friends to jump up and down with joy over what has become of this situation.

Thankfully the GGA trumped you all when they did.

In a game where the opinions of leaders frequently become policy, I daresay that there will always be a purpose in stating it. Particularly when a Triumvir does so.

[Doitzel]

I'm having difficulty deciding who to hate, here. Frankly, MCXA deserves this slap to the face. On the flip side ... TSO?? Why would you reward them for their lying and manipulating, and why would you trust them to defend your alliance after the way they treated their own?

[Bob]

I think that the word you're looking for is exudes. It rather changes the meaning of the post that you wrote, unless you intended to communicate that you support this treaty.

Clearly that was my meaning, apologies.

But since everyone is bent on repeating everything that was said in the first thread, I'll have a go at it too:

MCXA has big-boy pants. They wear them quite well without your assistance. Nor do they need any help tying their shoes. If they had detected this alleged odor that TSO is exuding they would have undoubtedly done something to eliminate the source of that noxious fragrance. Perhaps they might even say to us, their treaty partners, "No, we're really not comfortable with you extending your treaty with those people that attacked us." This was not said because it is simply not the case.

MCXA does have big boy pants, however, if you read this thread as has been pointed out by Schattenmann; MCXA knows better than to do this. MCXA only has so much energy and time to handle themselves and their affairs; and through the process of rebuilding their alliance government, they have been busy bees. Now, from what I know of, a Protectorate treaty with an alliance of 2.5 million NS, who could easily handle themselves, clearly need protection, right? Now I don't happen to know who else in CN would be justified in attacking TSO or who even wants to do it besides MCXA. From the posts of MCXA members and from having talked to several, I think its clear what would happen if this treaty did not exist. MCXA does not like the existence of TSO, for the most part, they just don't come out and say it like we do (we being people that have commented on this) because MCXA is afraid of the reaction from TOP/Sam and what that could do to their treaty situation.

Bob, I really like you. I feel a sort of kinship with you, one former ODN government leader to another. Because that is the case, I'll give you a head's up. What you (and others) are implying is that TOP has violated their treaty with MCXA, and that MCXA is utterly helpless to do anything about it. You are implying this by stating that TSO has acted aggressively (and with malice) against MCXA and that we are helping them.

I know that we do not appreciate the former implication, and I sincerely doubt that MCXA appreciates the latter.

Yes, that is what I am implying. Oh look, I just said it instead of implying it. I doubt you appreciate the truth being pointed out to you, and I doubt MCXA appreciates what you are doing to them.

So if you're not here for our benefit, or TSO's, or MCXA's, whose purpose are you serving?

And I am here for your benefit sadly enough, because I like and respect TOP, and it disgusts me for them to be associated with TSO.

Edit: Fixed tags and divided up post for easier reading.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Suvorov]

A match made in heaven, indeed. What's there not to like?

[bkphysics]

In a game where the opinions of leaders frequently become policy, I daresay that there will always be a purpose in stating it. Particularly when a Triumvir does so.

Maybe then, in this case, the words are being said because the feelings being conveyed by them are falling on deaf ears?

I'm overstating myself though because I am not Bob and am in NO right to imply any knowledge of his personal thoughts or feelings. I draw my conclusions simply based off what has been presented here and my own personal experiences.

[Hasin]

Clearly that was my meaning, apologies.

MCXA does have big boy pants, however, if you read this thread as has been pointed out by Schattenmann; MCXA knows better than to do this. MCXA only has so much energy and time to handle themselves and their affairs; and through the process of rebuilding their alliance government, they have been busy bees. Now, from what I know of, a Protectorate treaty with an alliance of 2.5 million NS, who could easily handle themselves, clearly need protection, right? Now I don't happen to know who else in CN would be justified in attacking TSO or who even wants to do it besides MCXA. From the posts of MCXA members and from having talked to several, I think its clear what would happen if this treaty did not exist. MCXA does not like the existence of TSO, for the most part, they just don't come out and say it like we do (we being people that have commented on this) because MCXA is afraid of the reaction from TOP/Sam and what that could do to their treaty situation.

Yes, that is what I am implying. Oh look, I just said it instead of implying it. I doubt you appreciate the truth being pointed out to you, and I doubt MCXA appreciates what you are doing to them.

And I am here for your benefit sadly enough, because I like and respect TOP, and it disgusts me for them to be associated with TSO.

Edit: Fixed tags and divided up post for easier reading.

We discussed this with MCXA government before signing it for the second time, like we did the first time. For the second time we've received an answer that allowed to us to sign this treaty. All MCXA had to do was say 'Please don't sign that treaty' and that would have been respected. We take that as their official policy.

[Bob]

Maybe then, in this case, the words are being said because the feelings being conveyed by them are falling on deaf ears?

I'm overstating myself though because I am not Bob and am in NO right to imply any knowledge of his personal thoughts or feelings. I draw my conclusions simply based off what has been presented here and my own personal experiences.

Yes, you are a wise man.

I guess I just have to be more blunt, like I was in my recent post :/

[WalkerNinja]

I doubt you appreciate the truth being pointed out to you, and I doubt MCXA appreciates what you are doing to them.

We are men of action. Lies do not become us.

And I am here for your benefit sadly enough, because I like and respect TOP, and it disgusts me for them to be associated with TSO.

If this is honestly the case, then I would suggest a meeting between your government and mine at a mutually agreeable time and place.

[Bob]

We are men of action. Lies do not become us.

I didn't claim that you were lying, more ignoring the obvious truth in front of you.

If this is honestly the case, then I would suggest a meeting between your government and mine at a mutually agreeable time and place.

I speak only what I believe, the rest of my government may believe so, and if so they would be welcome to chat about it with TOP in their time. My personal reply is such [OOC:] x

[16:49] * Topic is 'Welcome to the official channel of The Order of the Paradox | Forum URL: http://www.ordoparadox.com | Senate reset. Black: Vote for Derwood1 of Woodutopia. Orange: nsegura3 of sacramento'

[16:49] * Set by Blue on Sat Feb 21 15:12:02

[16:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +v Bob

[16:49] <+Bob> So I hear we have a meeting?[/OOC]

Edited March 19, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

<snip>

All this banging on about truth and honesty is a bit rich, coming from you.

[Some-Guy]

If you don't want to be insulted, perhaps you shouldn't be protecting an alliance that eludes failure from its every pore. Everything that TSO has done or can be connected to, from the MCXA forums to the very creation of their alliance, has eluded this very distinct odor.

This is my most favourite post of the month... nay! The year to date. I elude my thanks to you sir, you have a gift.

I'm having difficulty deciding who to hate, here. Frankly, MCXA deserves this slap to the face. On the flip side ... TSO?? Why would you reward them for their lying and manipulating, and why would you trust them to defend your alliance after the way they treated their own?

May TOP offer our services in solving your quandary? If you hate on us perhaps your finite scorn will somehow trickle down to both MCXA and TSO through osmosis.

[Yawoo]

This is my most favourite post of the month... nay! The year to date. I elude my thanks to you sir, you have a gift.

It was already stated that he meant exudes rather than eludes, no need to act ostentatious about a simple spelling mistake.

[Neuromancer7]

We are men of action. Lies do not become us.

Really, I love that line. SUCH a quotable movie.

Hail to your excellent taste good sir.

[Some-Guy]

It was already stated that he meant exudes rather than eludes, no need to act ostentatious about a simple spelling mistake.

I am a mean spirited person, I like ridiculing others and pointing out their mistakes - it makes me feel big and important, it distracts me from the things lacking in my life - for example: a soul.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Some-Guy

[Yawoo]

I am a mean spirited person, I like ridiculing others and pointing out their mistakes - it makes me feel big and important, it distracts me from the things lacking in my life - for example: a soul.

Ah, kudos to you my good man, however, it does not become you to make yourself look ignorant while trying to do your ridiculing.

[Stravolice]

Lines remaining drawn.

No surprise here.

[Bob]

This is my most favourite post of the month... nay! The year to date. I elude my thanks to you sir, you have a gift.

Alright then, I will now follow you around on the forums and wait for you to make a one letter spelling mistake and then ridicule you for it, seems fair right?

Honestly.

Also the above is sarcasm, by the way.

[necAnt]

...

Now, from what I know of, a Protectorate treaty with an alliance of 2.5 million NS, who could easily handle themselves, clearly need protection, right?

...

I haven´t seen you questioning the extended protectorate between STA and NSO (around 2.5 mio ns too) just days ago. Or do you want to imply that Ivan, can`t handle his ally and the fa of it and therefore need an protector?

For alliance leaders and members, which have problems with this renewed protectorate, you know where out forums are, if you allready have an embasy (if not, just request one), you are invited to voice your discomfort there, as long as you do this in an manner which can be expected from nation- and/or allianceleaders.

Thank you very much for your attention.

edit: english is an difficult language

Edited March 19, 2009 by necAnt

[Vilien]

I haven´t seen you questioning the extended protectorate between STA and NSO (around 2.5 mio ns too) just days ago. Or do you want to imply that Ivan, can`t handle his ally and the fa of it?

One of these alliances was received well by CN, and one was not.

[necAnt]

One of these alliances was received well by CN, and one was not.

Do i understand you right, that you mean, that TOP should check from now on how bob feels about an alliance, before we sign with them? Or am i just too tired, and read too much into your reply, if so i appologize.

[Bob]

I haven´t seen you questioning the extended protectorate between STA and NSO (around 2.5 mio ns too) just days ago. Or do you want to imply that Ivan, can`t handle his ally and the fa of it and therefore need an protector?

For alliance leaders and members, which have problems with this renewed protectorate, you know where out forums are, if you allready have an embasy (if not, just request one), you are invited to voice your discomfort there, as long as you do this in an manner which can be expected from nation- and/or allianceleaders.

Thank you very much for your attention.

edit: english is an difficult language

After discussions with Ivan Moldavi, Dark Lord of the New Sith Order, it has been agreed to extend the Temporary Protection Agreement for an additional 2 weeks.

The agreement has been altered slightly due to the rapid growth of the New Sith Order and is now a Temporary Defence Agreement.

I believe that is what we call a Temporary MDP, not a protectorate.

[necAnt]

I believe that is what we call a Temporary MDP, not a protectorate.

upps.

is somehow must have missed this line,

/me hits his english teacher

[Vilien]

Do i understand you right, that you mean, that TOP should check from now on how bob feels about an alliance, before we sign with them? Or am i just too tired, and read too much into your reply, if so i appologize.

Not at all.