logan1 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 i will bow out after having a nice chat with a TOP member (govt i believe), until i get my facts straight on who i should be trusting. sorry, carry on without me B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmom Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 not at all, i thought top had honor when i applied.not accepting my app was a blessing as you dont know how to treat your allies. gotta love how you handle your FA. I don't seem to understand why you are hating on us. Feanor asked your government if they had any problems with the treaty being extended, and they didn't. So you should either take it up with your government or elect some new people that share your opinion. What else exactly do you want us to do as allies? You good sir, make me angry. Stop being so civil and such a nice guy. I respect your line of thinking, and that's how I am viewing it as well. I just am attempting to encourage the right side on that issue to prevail. OOC: For some reason that made me lol IRL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I am sorry you feel this way. I asked one of your Co-Chancellor's about this and he told me that we could drop the protectorate, extend the protectorate or whatever and that it didn't matter and that he just wanted to move on. At the risk of sounding troll oriented, when nearly all the major government players of an alliance up and leave, one would probably expect a certain disconnect between the new government trying to find how they fit into this new alliance and the remaining members that seem to be getting lost in the shuffle. At times like this I would imagine it more prudent to consider the spirit and the nature of your relationship with said alliance rather than what is expressed by either either of these still reeling groups. Consider what happened to MCXA and put yourself in their shoes. These are your allies. What do you think this action tells them about your relationship and its future? Edited March 20, 2009 by Captain Flinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nc1701 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yes I did.I was told that we could extend the treaty if we wanted to. [22:21] Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]: well I already told TOP that you guys prefer to have them drop it To say I trust Dr. Fresh's word more than yours is an understatement. If your going to spit on us do not pretend to be our friends as you go about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 [22:21] Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]: well I already told TOP that you guys prefer to have them drop itTo say I trust Dr. Fresh's word more than yours is an understatement. If your going to spit on us do not pretend to be our friends as you go about it. I am not spitting on you. [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fupresti Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 This is just as, if not more, valid a case for "OMG Alliance poaching" as was made against TSO. I would ask those of you who are not a part of the "Yapping Dog Brigade" To consider that. And the likely reasoning behind why nobody seems to have made such outlandish accusations.I'm not claiming that what NSO may or may not have done was alliance poaching. Only that if we had done the exact same thing we would have been accused of such. Because the Yapping Dog Brigade will interpret anything that TSO say's or does in the way that casts us in the worst light. And they do no such thing for NSO or Moldavi Because the two are not the same. If Moo and his IO's had orchestrated a mass exodus of the top talent from NPO, then it would be similar to what TSO did to MCXA. Ivan forming NSO and attracting talent from all of Planet Bob is in no way similar to the backhanded move you all pulled on MCXA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fupresti Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now Sure seems like a vote of confidence. Maybe Fresh has more important things to do, like rebuilding what TSO so readily helped to destroy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Neuromancer7, weren't you that left TSO after their gag order to continue posting and making them look worse than they were? I thought you learned that lesson. Feanor Noldorin, imagine that: some of your gov left TOP and then create a new alliance and recruited from TOP after that they ask for a protectorade for some Continuum alliance without this Continuum alliance knew about details, so you tell them about what really happened, then they agreed in extend the protectorade. Would you or TOP members who were left behind be happy with that? Tl:dr because my english is horrible: If you were in MCXA would you be happy with what TOP did? Do you believe they really don't care? Edited March 20, 2009 by D34th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 MK check.Vox check. STA check. Nemesis check. Vanguard check. Carpe Diem check. NSO check. Seems this thread is now complete. Now we can commence operation betray Gramlins. While it is nice to be once again shown that our influence on the forums is disproportionate to the very minute number of comments we do actually contribute, I hope you realise that only one member of Vanguard had commented prior to your accusation. And that Vanguard member spoke regarding IRON's forum situation, not regarding TOP or TSO. I am aware that it has become a Paradoxian tradition to blame all public criticism on Vanguard - I mean, just look at big, bad Vanguard being singled out by TOP for ruining GGA's image in their recent public debacle - but at least wait until we have made a few posts concerning TOP. What you (and others) are implying is that TOP has violated their treaty with MCXA, and that MCXA is utterly helpless to do anything about it. You are implying this by stating that TSO has acted aggressively (and with malice) against MCXA and that we are helping them. Considering TSO themselves have admitted exactly that, I think it is a fair and accurate implication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Feanor Noldorin, imagine that: some of your gov left TOP and then create a new alliance and recruited from TOP after that they ask for a protectorade for some Continuum alliance without this Continuum alliance knew about details, so you tell them about what really happened, then they agreed in extend the protectorade. Would you or TOP members who were left behind be happy with that? If you were in MCXA would you be happy with what TOP did? Do you believe they really don't care? You'll have to excuse me for not going into your scenario as I am not a big fan of speculations or "what ifs." All I can say is that if there were problems or concerns then they should have been brought up. I am not saying that TSO had not caused problems for MCXA but both alliances sat down to work out there issues and came to an agreement on terms. No one forced MCXA to do that. When the subject of the extension came up I was given the answer that it was ok. Look I'm not in the business of putting myself in someones shoes or reading their minds. I am always honest with people when they come to talk to me and I expect the same when I speak with others. If I ask you a question and you give me an answer I'm going to take you for your word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan1 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now seriously? erm, ah..... thats quite embarrassing i hope i wasnt mislead! edit: i was mislead my apologies to TOP Edited March 20, 2009 by logan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy2e Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 ENOUGH: NO MORE MCXA MEMBERS ARE TO POST AFTER THIS POINT. Anyone who does so will face disciplinary actions. Leave it in private channels. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 If I ask you a question and you give me an answer I'm going to take you for your word. [OCC]You should have relashionship problems with women then hehheh. Just Joking [/OCC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacky Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now Wow. Did you just post those logs as if to suggest that it proves MCXA's endorsement of your continued protection of TSO? Either you are completely unable to empathise or you're just being sarcastic now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now Perhaps it's just me, but those three lines don't convey the most pleasant of tones. Sounds more like a begrudging/annoyed acceptance (that perhaps what MCXA really wants to do isn't the smart thing to do considering their outlook doesn't match up with the outlook of others outside the alliance who have the ability to shape/persuade/influence MCXA's actions). Regardless, those logs don't inspire great confidence within me that MCXA has no issues with TSO and furthermore, with TOP's continued relationship with TSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Did you just post those logs as if to suggest that it proves MCXA's endorsement of your continued protection of TSO? So, you're saying that it doesn't mean that they have? Perhaps we could ask if the good Doctor could come here and confirm what he means or doesn't mean by what he said in that conversation? Would that serve to satisfy your curiosity, Blacky? It would satisfy mine, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 So, you're saying that it doesn't mean that they have? Perhaps we could ask if the good Doctor could come here and confirm what he means or doesn't mean by what he said in that conversation? Would that serve to satisfy your curiosity, Blacky? It would satisfy mine, I suppose. What he means is not the issue. I have no doubts he means it that TOP can continue the protectorate agreement with TSO. Whether or not he truly prefers TOP to do so because he harbors no ill will or lingering anger towards TSO is the issue. And those three lines don't provide a positive vibe to me about Doctor Fresh seeing this continued protectorate in a good light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewatk432 Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) What he means is not the issue. I have no doubts he means it that TOP can continue the protectorate agreement with TSO. Whether or not he truly prefers TOP to do so because he harbors no ill will or lingering anger towards TSO is the issue. And those three lines don't provide a positive vibe to me about Doctor Fresh seeing this continued protectorate in a good light. Then he should have came out and told us directly instead of being indifferent. As the great Horton once said, Say what you mean, mean what you say Edited March 20, 2009 by ewatk432 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now Looks like sarcasm to me with a tone that says go away and leave us alone to fix the damage you helped do to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Then he should have came out and told us directly instead of being indifferent.As the great Horton once said, Say what you mean, mean what you say Perhaps he and MCXA aren't really in a commanding position of power over the situation? <--Rhetorical musing, by the way. Even if that is true, I would never expect it to be admitted by any involved parties. Also, perhaps he's not as stubborn/strong-willed/confrontational/etc as others, including myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Salovsky Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Looks like sarcasm to me with a tone that says go away and leave us alone to fix the damage you helped do to us. yeah... pretty much what it looks like. personally, i wouldn't do it if i was TOP. if I was TSO? I mean... come on! You guys have a bad rep. with MCXA, any ally I could get I'd hang on too. I think they'd be in danger without their protection. yeah, well there's my two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now You know when a woman says she doesn't care, it means she does. Not that Fresh is a woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) Perhaps he and MCXA aren't really in a commanding position of power over the situation? <--Rhetorical musing, by the way. Even if that is true, I would never expect it to be admitted by any involved parties.Also, perhaps he's not as stubborn/strong-willed/confrontational/etc as others, including myself. He is confrontational, just at his choosing. Ironic how certain alliances jump at the bit to make this worse than it is.(Not referring to quote.) Agendas are just that. We have none, other than saying TSO are our friends, and we are giving them a chance to prove themselves above the trainwreck of the DoE which happened. Many things have been discussed between the three alliances, a ton of money was funneled back into MCXA. The internal problems within MCXA created this in the first place. Why kick a group of active players from the game when they just want a fresh start? Obviously mistakes were made, but those were reconciled. If they haven't been, then MCXA should be approaching their allies and discussing this further. If they have been, your arguments are moot. Edited March 20, 2009 by Chalaskan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terveis Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 I am glad to see that TOP stays close to its friends in these hard times. I dont have much love for TSO, but i seriously hope that in time the wounds between them and MCXA can be healed, and TOP might be a good mediator in that. o/ TOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 [22:21] Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]: well I already told TOP that you guys prefer to have them drop it I am not spitting on you.[01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> Keep the protectorate, drop the protectorate, doesn't matter to me [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> I just want to move on [01:17] <Doctor_Fresh[MCXA]> There, that's the official policy now So Fresh told you that 'you guys' (aimed at nc1701 so I'll assume it to be members of MCXA) would prefer to have you drop the treaty, and when asked himself said the above which is hardly a comment that suggests he is delighted with the arrangement, and you took it to be an endorsement of the treaty? Or did the first quote never happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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