New Frontier Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Good job with restarting. Even if I didn't believe in second chances and the philosophy of "IC=/=OOC", I respect TOOL enough to give you a fresh start, Stig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonesmak Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I like you stiggy and that's all that matters, past is past, it's your job not to let your past repeat itself... that's all i might know, if in fact i know anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Once he established his new character so that he could be judged solely on the merits of his new persona instead of having to carry the stigma of his now dead character. Thanks to !@#$%^& who feel the need to compare IP addresses because they have nothing better to do with their time he doesn't get that opportunity. Slevin did what he thought was best and I commend him for his service. I didn't ask slevin to track jack, however jack made the issue quite bitter in the past with the log dump thread targeted at slevin. You'll notice he didn't post up a thread informing the world, he didnt tell anyone but stig and myself. In a day where folks are rerolling to spy and actively posting up "private" info all over the owf, it is indeed the nature of the game that people keep an eye out for folks that happen to demonstrate particular hostility toward us that join our allies or us. We didn't ask for an apology, that was stig's decision, and I must admit he did a good job of it. Fighting an asymmetrical war means you must prepare for offenses to come from new and unknown routs, all one can do is attempt to reach a balance between protecting the alliance and helping preserve the game from needless attrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted March 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Already told you I didn't like jack but the stig is ok with me. Not many people liked Jack, including myself. Damn....You are good at hiding it. I actually liked you in my time at TOOL. Lets keep it this way. I remember you telling me I was an awful leader as Jack, and I remember not too long ago you praised my mandate for my run in the TOOL council. I knew your reaction would be amusing to see... Sup JtG. Hai Londo! We must catch up sometime. B) I congratulate you sir. We had some run-ins in the past when you were at United Alliance and from there I just kind of observed your actions when in public, most of which, I disagreed with. I agree with those above me that no apology is necessary as you have crafted a new persona here. I wish you nothing but the best in your future on Planet Bob and welcome you to visit us at United Foundation if diplomacy is the route you take in TOOL.Kyle Smith Secretary of State United Foundation Hey Kyle, I'll come along as soon as I get a chance. And to everyone, perhaps Slevin was wrong for his actions but he did keep it secret. Like mhawk said, this announcement was my decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dealmaster13 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) I'm very glad you had the guts to post a message such as this. Kudos to you man; CN friend for life . Edited March 8, 2009 by dealmaster13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I would like to wish TheStig luck out on Bob. Hopefully you have learned from your mistakes from past lives, and can move on and be a better person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens of the desert Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Expected/10 have fun Jack old buddy ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Once he established his new character so that he could be judged solely on the merits of his new persona instead of having to carry the stigma of his now dead character. Thanks to !@#$%^& who feel the need to compare IP addresses because they have nothing better to do with their time he doesn't get that opportunity. Well, I wish you wouldn't judge him by his past actions, but if that is what you want to do then go ahead. All I have heard about TheStig is he IS different. I understand though that some people can't look past the obvious and let him continue on in the new ID. I hope maybe in the future you can let him do that. To TheStig--Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowen70 Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Me and JTG have had an interesting past some good some hard when we led an alliance together, but thestig is doing well and I commend him for it. Certainly a character with a lot of potential and I'm pleased for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfHoward Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Unless someone breaks some sort of EULA guideline I don't see the point extending punishment or exposing people's identity across re-rolls if they're making a new character. Edited March 9, 2009 by SonOfHoward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Slevin did what he thought was best and I commend him for his service. I didn't ask slevin to track jack, however jack made the issue quite bitter in the past with the log dump thread targeted at slevin. You'll notice he didn't post up a thread informing the world, he didnt tell anyone but stig and myself. In a day where folks are rerolling to spy and actively posting up "private" info all over the owf, it is indeed the nature of the game that people keep an eye out for folks that happen to demonstrate particular hostility toward us that join our allies or us. We didn't ask for an apology, that was stig's decision, and I must admit he did a good job of it. Fighting an asymmetrical war means you must prepare for offenses to come from new and unknown routs, all one can do is attempt to reach a balance between protecting the alliance and helping preserve the game from needless attrition. The thought that you asked him never even crossed my mind (I didn't even realize slevin was in TPF) I just do not feel that tracking people by IP is appropriate, the only time I would even consider it is if I suspected someone of ban evasion. Well, I wish you wouldn't judge him by his past actions, but if that is what you want to do then go ahead. All I have heard about TheStig is he IS different. I understand though that some people can't look past the obvious and let him continue on in the new ID. I hope maybe in the future you can let him do that.To TheStig--Good luck methinks you misunderstood me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Specific Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I see no reason for an apology from this player. The only question I have is why some think it is a good idea to save the IP addresses of old deleted characters? I'd like to see an apology for that. Assymetrical warfare? Mhawk, surely you can agree that we should be better than this in playing a character-driven game? How about we try playing this game as scary, fun, obnoxious or even annoying characters and not as alliance-recorded and shared IP addresses? Or should we just appeal to Admin that our nation and ruler names be changed to our IP addresses and irc hostmasks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I see no reason for an apology from this player. The only question I have is why some think it is a good idea to save the IP addresses of old deleted characters? I'd like to see an apology for that. Assymetrical warfare? Mhawk, surely you can agree that we should be better than this in playing a character-driven game? How about we try playing this game as scary, fun, obnoxious or even annoying characters and not as alliance-recorded and shared IP addresses? Or should we just appeal to Admin that our nation and ruler names be changed to our IP addresses and irc hostmasks? In fairness to Mhawk, there are a lot of people who abuse the "clean slate" idea and create identities that are really just masks for the old identity in order to spy on people. That obviously is not the case with Stig, but it does happen. -Bama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Specific Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 In fairness to Mhawk, there are a lot of people who abuse the "clean slate" idea and create identities that are really just masks for the old identity in order to spy on people. That obviously is not the case with Stig, but it does happen.-Bama How about we catch those spies based on their in-character activities? It's really not that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 How about we catch those spies based on their in-character activities? It's really not that hard. Because any good spy isn't going to act like their old character? -Bama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Slevin did what he thought was best and I commend him for his service. I didn't ask slevin to track jack, however jack made the issue quite bitter in the past with the log dump thread targeted at slevin. You'll notice he didn't post up a thread informing the world, he didnt tell anyone but stig and myself. In a day where folks are rerolling to spy and actively posting up "private" info all over the owf, it is indeed the nature of the game that people keep an eye out for folks that happen to demonstrate particular hostility toward us that join our allies or us. We didn't ask for an apology, that was stig's decision, and I must admit he did a good job of it. Fighting an asymmetrical war means you must prepare for offenses to come from new and unknown routs, all one can do is attempt to reach a balance between protecting the alliance and helping preserve the game from needless attrition. What absolute rubbish. You're justifying using OOC information to further your cause in game by citing a silly personal grudge held by one of your own members over a previous ruler, some very vague paranoia about private information (I won't even mention the hypocrisy of complaining about people mis-using your private information whilst simultaneously condoning the tracking of IP addresses...) and the tarring of one guy with your big prejudice brush. This explanation is grossly sub par and I can't believe you expect anyone to just swallow it down without choking on the ridiculousness of it all. Edited March 9, 2009 by Aimee Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Specific Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Because any good spy isn't going to act like their old character?-Bama That actually is irrelevant. If there is an information leak due to a spy, you isolate and feed the information and track it. There are many, many ways of doing this and I know most in gov are familiar with these practices. As of now all I see with this current mindset is the message that rerolls are guilty of spying until proven innocent. Edited March 9, 2009 by General Specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 As of now all I see with this current mindset is the message that rerolls are guilty of spying until proven innocent. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 methinks you misunderstood me. eh, you misunderstood me and went with it, I did the same. Remember, we have you under Surveillance!!! The Phoenix Watches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Indeed. Sorry, I missed the part where this thread was about Phoenix Security. Also, we all know that The Big Bad is already plotting to take back TPF (at least publicly). Edited March 9, 2009 by Desperado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I hated Jack the Great.I've got nothing against you. This is not the first time Slevin has done this to someone if memory serves. Reprehensible. You were doing just fine. O Doitzel, am i a horrible person? Slevin has never been one for class so dont worry. LOL you talking about Class... The only question I have is why some think it is a good idea to save the IP addresses of old deleted characters? I'd like to see an apology for that. Not everyone changes when they are given a second chance... What absolute rubbish. You're justifying using OOC information to further your cause in game by citing a silly personal grudge held by one of your own members over a previous ruler, some very vague paranoia about private information (I won't even mention the hypocrisy of complaining about people mis-using your private information whilst simultaneously condoning the tracking of IP addresses...) and the tarring of one guy with your big prejudice brush.This explanation is grossly sub par and I can't believe you expect anyone to just swallow it down without choking on the ridiculousness of it all. If there was a grudge you would see a war, I think Jack and myself had a good talk with no hostility towards each other but im not one for posting logs for all to see...maybe Vox has spies that can get you the logs. Jack as i said before there are no hurt feelings from my end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Welcome back Jack, you gotta drop by and say hello, missed you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Lakes Union Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 As of now all I see with this current mindset is the message that rerolls are guilty of spying until proven innocent. Because many times they are. If someone gets kicked out of an alliances, deletes, and then rejoins their original alliance or a close ally it's often to create problems. I've seen it many times, much more often than the persona looking for a real fresh start. That said, it sounds like this way the case here and probably why nothing was said publicly from our end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Specific Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Because many times they are. If someone gets kicked out of an alliances, deletes, and then rejoins their original alliance or a close ally it's often to create problems. I've seen it many times, much more often than the persona looking for a real fresh start. That said, it sounds like this way the case here and probably why nothing was said publicly from our end. We obviously approach this game very differently. I recognize that you see player IP address tracking as important to your alliance's in game security. I personally, as a player of the game, believe this practice of maintaining IP address records injects a distracting and inappropriate level of paranoia to the game. Hopefully, this OOC disagreement we have here in this OOC forum can stay out of the game, too. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 much more often than the persona looking for a real fresh start. Have you ever considered that it is probably because the ones that don't cause problems usually don't get noticed? But I guess since we ar now moving toward accepting preemptive IP screening those people will no longer get the chance t o not get noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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