Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 LOL Ip Screening...more him logging on as Jack then logging on as TheStig not long after...it also helps if you know where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Lakes Union Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Have you ever considered that it is probably because the ones that don't cause problems usually don't get noticed? But I guess since we ar now moving toward accepting preemptive IP screening those people will no longer get the chance t o not get noticed. That's because they don't come back to the same alliance or a close one. In my opinion the ones that do tend to be up to no good generally. Again, I'll note that we were not the ones that came forward with this info public, and have not taken any actions on it. If you may attention you notice lots of things, I do not see the crime in that. Edited March 9, 2009 by Great Lakes Union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 You are playing a new character and were doing a damn good job of it until someone decided to use IP addresses to ID you. You do not owe anyone an apology, the only one who should apologize is the jerk who stopped you from starting over with a fresh slate. Agreed. I refuse to recognize you as "Jack The Great" for that character is dead and long gone. Welcome to bob, TheStig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorum Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I refuse to recognize you as "Jack The Great" for that character is dead and long gone. Welcome to bob, TheStig. Well said EM. (also, hello JtG ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 What absolute rubbish. You're justifying using OOC information to further your cause in game by citing a silly personal grudge held by one of your own members over a previous ruler, some very vague paranoia about private information (I won't even mention the hypocrisy of complaining about people mis-using your private information whilst simultaneously condoning the tracking of IP addresses...) and the tarring of one guy with your big prejudice brush.This explanation is grossly sub par and I can't believe you expect anyone to just swallow it down without choking on the ridiculousness of it all. Okay okay you got me. In the cotton candy lollipop land we believe that everyone likes us and we have no reason to doubt anyone. Sometimes right after a trip to the gumball fountain, one of the carebears makes an uh-oh, but thats otay because he really didn't mean it and it was probably our fault for not sharing and playing nice anyways. 1) Stig wasn't identified by ip addresses. 2) Slevin and Stig have worked out their differences, how are we using anything to further our in game "cause" ? 3) Tarring with a prejudiced brush? -- Really take a look at yourself in regards to prejudice. Stig came to me with who he was and I told him I didn't care what he did, thats about as neutral as possible. We didn't ask him to reveal himself, he asked my advice and I told him to do whatever he felt would work for him best. In this case he choose to tell folks who he was and make amends for a multitude of actions he felt folks would hold against him. 4) Last I checked there seems to be a weekly column, irc channel, and an offsite website of spy information from our allies and our bloc boards, that is hardly a "vague paranoia." Most enemy nations in vox have the option to surrender and go peacefully, yet continue to reroll and plot stealing hundreds of millions from us and our allies to use in direct action attacks on our smaller members. While I recognize there is little we can do, I think it is naive to expect us not to attempt any sort of defense to such attacks. To those claiming to be against asymmetrical warfare, I feel that you have failed to grasp that it merely means a war fought from disproportionate numbers, which is certainly the case to various conflicts we are fighting. Arguing the morality of taking the most basic steps in internal security is folly, I'm quite certain kingsqrt himself "logs" IRC chats which is all slevin did. Judge us by our actions, not because we don't put our heads in the sand. Here are our actions for you to judge. 1) Stig came to me telling me his former identity, I told him we had no issue with him. We did not release his identity, his ip, anything. 2) He asks if we want an apology, I told him we don't care, but that he can do whatever he wants. 3) Our allies come and ask us if we have issue with him, I tell them we don't. 4) We get chewed out for being "!@#$%^&" and oppressive monsters. Yup, that surely is the logical conclusion to reach when reviewing the actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) That actually is irrelevant. If there is an information leak due to a spy, you isolate and feed the information and track it. There are many, many ways of doing this and I know most in gov are familiar with these practices.As of now all I see with this current mindset is the message that rerolls are guilty of spying until proven innocent. A clearly flawed analysis of the situation. Nothing we did supports your conclusion. We didn't attack him. We didn't want reps. We didn't ask for an apology. We didn't ask him to reveal himself. All of those would be highly likely if we believe him guilty of something sinister. Quite frankly I was informed who he was (by stig himself) and did NOTHING, because I didn't see it as an issue. My commending slevin comes from the very most basic principle of alliance security, your members taking vested interested in her defense. "There are many, many ways of doing this and I know most in gov are familiar with these practices." Slevin is not gov, but was looking out for the welfare of TPF instead of being a mindless drone expecting gov to take care of everything. We give lectures about complacency and slevin followed them, good for him. Edited March 9, 2009 by mhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heyman Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 In any case, why blow something out of proportion if things have already been resolved? TheStig and Slevin are cool now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 We give lectures about complacency Whoever made him start with this, i feel sorry for you... mhippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) 1) Stig wasn't identified by ip addresses. Are you saying the following quote from the OP is a lie? I have spoken with mhawk and cleared all of this up and the reason for this thread is due to Slevin discovering me through an IRC IP match. 2) Slevin and Stig have worked out their differences, how are we using anything to further our in game "cause" ? You tell me, you're the guys who like to keep track of everyone's IPs. For an example though, I guess one use could be to attack Stig if he was on one of your ZI lists and you didn't want him playing the game. 3) Tarring with a prejudiced brush? -- Really take a look at yourself in regards to prejudice. Stig came to me with who he was and I told him I didn't care what he did, thats about as neutral as possible. We didn't ask him to reveal himself, he asked my advice and I told him to do whatever he felt would work for him best. In this case he choose to tell folks who he was and make amends for a multitude of actions he felt folks would hold against him. Yes. I don't know if it's paranoia or prejudice but you keep referring to Vox in this situation (...which has nothing at all to do with Vox) in order to justify the fact that you condone your members using OOC information for the tracking of re-rolls. Justifying your actions by lumping Stig into the same basket as Vox does not wash because he was merely trying to start afresh and play peacefully - something he'd be able to continue to do if you didn't check up on IPs because you think everyone is out to get you! I recognise you're upset by Vox but they don't control everything and there are other players in the game too, please don't tar them with your prejudice brush. It's all very well saying that this time you didn't ask him to reveal himself, but can you imagine how Stig must've felt when you found him out? How is he to know that you're not going to use this as an excuse to attack him or even one of his alliances later on down the line? Apologising was the responsible thing because he can now hopefully try to get on with playing the game. The fact that he felt he had to make the apology in the first place is sad, and is a direct result of your IP stalking. 4) Last I checked there seems to be a weekly column, irc channel, and an offsite website of spy information from our allies and our bloc boards, that is hardly a "vague paranoia." Most enemy nations in vox have the option to surrender and go peacefully, yet continue to reroll and plot stealing hundreds of millions from us and our allies to use in direct action attacks on our smaller members. While I recognize there is little we can do, I think it is naive to expect us not to attempt any sort of defense to such attacks. To those claiming to be against asymmetrical warfare, I feel that you have failed to grasp that it merely means a war fought from disproportionate numbers, which is certainly the case to various conflicts we are fighting. Arguing the morality of taking the most basic steps in internal security is folly, I'm quite certain kingsqrt himself "logs" IRC chats which is all slevin did. Judge us by our actions, not because we don't put our heads in the sand. It was vague since you'd made no mention of specifics until now, but now that you're using Vox are the reason for your actions in this case (... which had nothing at all to do with Vox) I think I'd rather you just left it vague. As far as I can see Vox has nothing to do with the situation and unless you've got evidence to the contrary you really can't use Vox's existence as a reason for stalking everyone who ever re-rolls. It's also rather depressing that IP matching is on your basic list of things to do regarding internal security. Keeping logs is one thing, but actively finding the IPs with the intention of unveiling a re-roll who up until that point was happily playing the game with no bad intent is completely different, and I'm sure you can't accuse Srqt of that. Here are our actions for you to judge.Very nice, but you missed out the step where you condone your members tracking the IPs of re-rolls, which coincidentally is the exact point I've been arguing about. Don't worry, I'm sure it was just a mistake. I'm glad that you didn't want to pursue any further punishment here and I commend you for this, but the fact is that if he was still on one of your ZI lists you'd be on him in a flash - not because of his actions in game, but because of his IP address. Edited March 9, 2009 by Aimee Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) TheStig has nothing to apologise for, although I disagreed with many of the actions of Jack The Great the fact it took IP address tracking to identify you as the same OOC person clearly shows the change. Welcome to the Cyberverse and have fun playing the game. I have to say it amuses me when a member posts in the thread pretty much confirming, and at the very least not denying, the use of IPs to match the two characters and the leader blusters in afterwards claiming no IP matches were used. Edited March 9, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) You tell me, you're the guys who like to keep track of everyone's IPs. For an example though, I guess one use could be to attack Stig if he was on one of your ZI lists and you didn't want him playing the game.It's all very well saying that this time you didn't ask him to reveal himself, but can you imagine how Stig must've felt when you found him out? How is he to know that you're not going to use this as an excuse to attack him or even one of his alliances later on down the line? Apologising was the responsible thing because he can now hopefully try to get on with playing the game. The fact that he felt he had to make the apology in the first place is sad, and is a direct result of your IP stalking. It was vague since you'd made no mention of specifics until now, but now that you're using Vox are the reason for your actions in this case (... which had nothing at all to do with Vox) I think I'd rather you just left it vague. As far as I can see Vox has nothing to do with the situation and unless you've got evidence to the contrary you really can't use Vox's existence as a reason for stalking everyone who ever re-rolls. It's also rather depressing that IP matching is on your basic list of things to do regarding internal security. Keeping logs is one thing, but actively finding the IPs with the intention of unveiling a re-roll who up until that point was happily playing the game with no bad intent is completely different, and I'm sure you can't accuse Srqt of that. Very nice, but you missed out the step where you condone your members tracking the IPs of re-rolls, which coincidentally is the exact point I've been arguing about. Don't worry, I'm sure it was just a mistake. I'm glad that you didn't want to pursue any further punishment here and I commend you for this, but the fact is that if he was still on one of your ZI lists you'd be on him in a flash - not because of his actions in game, but because of his IP address. If you noticed, you cannot get IP's from IRC. Slevin just happened to notice that ISP and thought he should check himself. Also, you clearly missed the point where it was stated that this was TheStig's choice and not ours. We actually did not care if he wished to remain anonymous. And finally, these 'stalking' accusations you have made are a complete misinterpretation. Slevin found him on his own and they worked out their differences. In fact, I am not even sure Slevin told anyone that he had even found this out. TheStig came to us to explain this whole thing as stated previously. Edited March 9, 2009 by Desperado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khellendros Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 don't apologize... it is not needed..... TOOL is here for you.... you are a great asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If you noticed, you cannot get IP's from IRC. Slevin just happened to notice that ISP and thought he should check himself. No, but you can get the host mask of a person which is a unique identifier to the user and is the equivalent of an IP as far as tracking and identifying re-rolls. Also, you clearly missed the point where it was stated that this was TheStig's choice and not ours. We actually did not care if he wished to remain anonymous. It was his choice after he was already outed to TPF. I do not think TPF as a whole did anything wrong I do think slevin did something wrong in notifying TPF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Virginia Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 In fairness to Mhawk, there are a lot of people who abuse the "clean slate" idea and create identities that are really just masks for the old identity in order to spy on people. That obviously is not the case with Stig, but it does happen.-Bama And that should be handled on a case to case basis. Yes, some people will abuse the system, but there is no reason to punish the many for the offenses of the few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 And that should be handled on a case to case basis. Yes, some people will abuse the system, but there is no reason to punish the many for the offenses of the few. Agreed. Guys, can you take the TPF discussion to another thread please? -Bama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonknight1000 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 ^^i agree w/ Bama on this one anyway, i was shocked at first but to me and the rest of TOOL, you're the cool newb known as the Stig so no need to change that now keep up the good work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Are you saying the following quote from the OP is a lie? No, I'm saying your understanding of the difference between an IP address and an IRC hostmask/registered nick switching in public channels is highly flawed. Subsequently the rest of your assumptions are equally flawed. We don't have some master IP list, our forums even delete accounts/ip's after a few weeks of inactivity as a security feature. I'm done filling this thread corrections to the ignorant and arrogant jabs. Welcome back theStig. Edited March 9, 2009 by mhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) I do think slevin did something wrong in notifying TPF. Why is what i did wrong? I told my alliance who Jack, not on the TPF zi list, was as a reroll...is that so damn terrible? Now go back to your hole and don't come up for a while. Also since you are talking out of your arse i suggest you stay away from the thread Edited March 9, 2009 by Slevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) Why is what i did wrong? I told my alliance who Jack, not on the TPF zi list, was as a reroll...is that so damn terrible? seeing as though he did not want people to know who he was so that he could play a new character, and since the alliance that he got into trouble with were probably the ones who he wanted to prove himself to under his new persona yes it was that bad. Now go back to your hole and don't come up for a while.Also since you are talking out of your arse i suggest you stay away from the thread Make me. Edited March 9, 2009 by KingSrqt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 seeing as though he did not want people to know who he was so that he could play a new character, and since the alliance that he got into trouble with were probably the ones who he wanted to prove himself to under his new persona yes it was that bad. Make me. If he didnt want people to know he shouldn't have told anyone... O know we got a tough guy here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If he didnt want people to know he shouldn't have told anyone...O know we got a tough guy here you found him out on IRC that is not the same thing as him telling people. Yup I am a tough guy you got me, now what are you going to do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 you found him out on IRC that is not the same thing as him telling people. Yup I am a tough guy you got me, now what are you going to do about it? Found him...you got it all wrong...our long time friend Aut told me where to look... see what i mean by talking out of your arse, you make yourself look bad. Well if i was in your range i would have to give ya a nice spanking...its a shame im not In due time...in due time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Srqt Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Found him...you got it all wrong...our long time friend Aut told me where to look... see what i mean by talking out of your arse, you make yourself look bad.Well if i was in your range i would have to give ya a nice spanking...its a shame im not In due time...in due time I can't wait. I really do want my casualty count to at least be as high as my old nation's. And no I am not talking out of my $@!. I am going by the OP and your previous statements that say you found him out by looking on IRC if AUT told you and you told TPF all that means is that you both did the wrong thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slevin Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) I can't wait. I really do want my casualty count to at least be as high as my old nation's. And no I am not talking out of my $@!. I am going by the OP and your previous statements that say you found him out by looking on IRC if AUT told you and you told TPF all that means is that you both did the wrong thing. Well i have a long way to go to reach 2.3 million again...and before that nation...damn your making me go far back. This is Cybernations...everything you find on here is a lie don't you know? Vox has all the answers. Edited March 9, 2009 by Slevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Found him...you got it all wrong...our long time friend Aut told me where to look... see what i mean by talking out of your arse, you make yourself look bad.Well if i was in your range i would have to give ya a nice spanking...its a shame im not In due time...in due time And I recall telling you to let him be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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