New environment effect

[greenansatsu]

no, surely not. get your facts straight.

You import no Uran, you have no nukes.

The only thing I can see hurting your env is Coal/Oil import, but 1 of these is already equaled out by Water. So, the only thing that should affect you is the GRL and 1 env penalty from your trades. You want to tell me 2 env hurting your nation with -30 happiness. Tell that someone else, thats simply not true. Examples and statements like this make people believe "this update is horrible", while it is in fact not.

Actually if he hasn't looked at his nation recently it could be true. When this update first came out this was the case and was also why many nations were bill locked. I'm guessing many have not rechecked their nations after admin corrected the error in the formula

[Robertraccoon]

no, surely not. get your facts straight.

You import no Uran, you have no nukes.

The only thing I can see hurting your env is Coal/Oil import, but 1 of these is already equaled out by Water. So, the only thing that should affect you is the GRL and 1 env penalty from your trades. You want to tell me 2 env hurting your nation with -30 happiness. Tell that someone else, thats simply not true. Examples and statements like this make people believe "this update is horrible", while it is in fact not.

What about people that have those resources, or both it happens a lot, and they are out of luck even if they are hundreds of days old. Most will probably be forced to restart until a change is made to those resources.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Robertraccoon

[Khyber]

I got to admit, I have no idea what diskord is talking about.

How is this going to get everyone in a better position to chase those that are higher up?

The idea that war will do that now, changes nothing.

The system before had it where once you got to around 4500 infra, while you weren't making the same money as someone at 6000 infra, you were not that far behind, a 20% increase. There was however a major differnce between 3k infra and 4.5k infra and 1.5k infra and 3k infra where the increases where 100%. So nations after 4.5k infra where relativly close in money producing power, allowing an active base of 4.5k nations take on tougher threats as they could match the money producing power of the larger nations and with 3 on 1 tear it down. This required a greater effort from the attacking nations, better organization from the alliance, and was something fun, that people looked forward to. This was mostly due to the fact that you were done purchasing money producing improvements around that point, and were starting to work on military improvements.

This is no longer the case. Now with 4 more improvements to get the point where the increased gain in resources starts to slowly decline is around 5k infra which would normally put you into a good deal of militlary improvements.

This has hit developing nations the worst, nations around 2k to 4.5k in infra, as they can no longer reasonably take on nations that are larger then them. And in effect killed off a large part of the game, where smaller hoards can take on larger targets until you get past the 5.5k infra point, at which point your already in the top 10%.

Contrary to all those strong nations saying how they are not arguing for their benefits, I think like most people they are out for themselves.

This is a poor update, one that makes this game more static. And when your alliance is defeated in a war the results will be disasterous if your nations where around the 2k-4.5k infra marks, but if you were larger you will rise up again quickly.

Like I said in a previous post, this does not affect my nation one bit, as I'm making the same that I used to, if not a bit more. I'm angered however by how this has hurt nations growing and made their assention to larger nations even furthur, and their war making capabilities even worse.

[LJ Scott]

I have to admit I am warming up to it. Looks like Tech raiding is going to get a new name, "Landraiding"

That already happened after the NS formula was reworked.

People still raid for tech?

I'll have you know that at:

Technology: 2,426.86

Area of Influence: 4,016.333 mile diameter.

I still regularly raid nations weekly. Mainly when I have the time to search one out quickly

[Provost Zakharov]

Read the change.

Invest in land. A whole aspect of this change was to force people AWAY from the infra/infra/infra mindset. You did what every other CN player has been conditioned to do, buy more infra. In fact, if you had invested the same amount of money in to some land, your taxes would have INCREASED and you would have made money.

The only major change this update does is make people actually THINK about what they are doing when building their nation, not just pump money in to the infra beast.

All this stuff about land being better now is just lies. Land still sucks hard. I just bought 200 land (went from 3600 to 3800) and my income increased by 10,600/day. With a price tag of 29,000,000, that 200 land is going to take 7.5 years to pay itself off.

[Balkan Banania]

I also think that such a BIG change in gameplay should be announced before, what about people who changed all their improvementslots to millitary? What about people who where in a backcollect?

This, I sure would appreciate a heads up concerning the new update and this is my main objection

[LJ Scott]

All this stuff about land being better now is just lies. Land still sucks hard. I just bought 200 land (went from 3600 to 3800) and my income increased by 10,600/day. With a price tag of 29,000,000, that 200 land is going to take 7.5 years to pay itself off.

Who said you had to buy it?

[King Srqt]

"this update is horrible", while it is in fact not.

You should not state matters of opinion as fact. This is a game so the most important thing is how enjoyable it is. You have no way to know if this will make the game more enjoyable for more people and it is obvious that there are people that feel the game has been made less enjoyable.

[Robertraccoon]

All this stuff about land being better now is just lies. Land still sucks hard. I just bought 200 land (went from 3600 to 3800) and my income increased by 10,600/day. With a price tag of 29,000,000, that 200 land is going to take 7.5 years to pay itself off.

I wonder if being able to sell land like tech by aiding it would help. If it does it may help get some people out trouble if they have a lot to sell to other nations.

[Oktavia]

I haven't had the opportunity to test out border walls in order to calculate the benefit.

Borderwalls = 0.5 enviroment

With the new change to enviroment affecting citizen count and income, how much benefit are your nations getting from them now? Is it overcoming the actual 2% loss of citizens?

Edited May 19, 2008 by battletech

[Ertyy]

I just bought about 800 miles of land and got a couple hundred cits out of the deal. Maybe land is a good deal when you have it in the amounts of diskord and arcades, but not otherwise.

Note that I like the change.

[Aeternos Astramora]

Maybe changes can be made to the NEO wonder to roll back environment's effect on population.

[Ski11585]

You should not state matters of opinion as fact. This is a game so the most important thing is how enjoyable it is. You have no way to know if this will make the game more enjoyable for more people and it is obvious that there are people that feel the game has been made less enjoyable.

KingSrgt is quite correct. Syz, you may like the change and feel it is logical and for the betterment of your large, large nation. You have no right to speak as though you are the omniscient ruler of Bob, dolling out suggestions as though you are infallible.

People will react differently. Drop the condescending tone and deal with it.

[ChairmanHal]

From the start I knew this would not be a popular update and I expect to see many threads like this and many PM complaints. My response... bring it on. Environment was a feature that had a lot of potential in the game and now that potential is better realized with this update.

Watching too much Al Gore, eh?

It's your beta to change, not mine. But when I have an environment described by your game as "quite clean" and rates 4 out of 5 stars on your scale and I lose almost 2,000 population overnight, don't expect me to be a happy camper.

[greenansatsu]

I haven't had the opportunity to test out border walls in order to calculate the benefit.

Borderwalls = 0.5 enviroment

With the new change to enviroment affecting citizen count and income, how much benefit are your nations getting from them now? Is it overcoming the actual 2% loss of citizens?

my tax per income went up around $16.00 for 5 bw and i only lost 5000 citizens so BW are more helpful to me now cause the cit drop is less than before.

[Great Lakes Union]

I personally don't like the changes. It's really annoying to work to get your nation to a certain point to have it knocked down a few levels because of someone's suggestion...

If you are going to make the environment a larger feature like this, give us new means to improve it. A recycling center improvement, maybe a new government position or something.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Great Lakes Union

[BlackKnight]

This is outrageous

Just purchased another 20 Infra, just to see my god for saking income increase, yet nothing happened

Purchased 60 miles of land, only to see my invd. tax drop by another .01

So far, from what I've seen, its only the obese nations who aren't complaining, rather liking the update

[diskord]

I just bought about 800 miles of land and got a couple hundred cits out of the deal. Maybe land is a good deal when you have it in the amounts of diskord and arcades, but not otherwise.

Note that I like the change.

I think it's safe to say you didn't get 5K infra overnight, buying an effective amount of land probably isn't going to happen overnight either...

[Seerow]

As a very small nation with no land to speak of, I feel these changes are moving the game in the right direction.

[Lord Sharpe]

This is outrageous

Just purchased another 20 Infra, just to see my god for saking income increase, yet nothing happened

Purchased 60 miles of land, only to see my invd. tax drop by another .01

So far, from what I've seen, its only the obese nations who aren't complaining, rather liking the update

Because buying 20 infra and 60 miles of land affect obese nations more, right?

[Provost Zakharov]

Who said you had to buy it?

I didn't have to buy it. I wanted to see how much land had improved after reading these rumors. Conclusion? Land is still worthless. I'm posting it here so other people can learn from it.

[threefingeredguy]

This is outrageous

Just purchased another 20 Infra, just to see my god for saking income increase, yet nothing happened

Purchased 60 miles of land, only to see my invd. tax drop by another .01

So far, from what I've seen, its only the obese nations who aren't complaining, rather liking the update

Is my nation considered obese at 6199.99 infra, 2200 tech, and 2500 land? I think I actually make slightly more money than I did before.

Also, I was in the middle of a back collect myself and I don't understand why people are complaining about that. I honestly can't see see how this would effect a back collect at all.

[threefingeredguy]

I didn't have to buy it. I wanted to see how much land had improved after reading these rumors. Conclusion? Land is still worthless. I'm posting it here so other people can learn from it.

Land? Worthless? :lol:

[Oktavia]

I've gained about 600 miles of land just from war. No complaints here.

I'm really not sure if I want to collect tonight or wait a few days for the admin to finish the changes.

[Oktavia]

So basically once your nation overcomes the loss of citizens, are you actually gaining a higher bonus?