Spies Input

[Vor]

what about instead of changing it to a random government type, the spy can change it to anarchy for the next couple tax collections

It doesn't change your government style. It changes the DESIRED government.

[Syzygy]

i already suggested a simple solution against the abuse of the spying features:

1. you are not allowed to spy on nations wearing your own alliance affiliation

2. you can only change your alliance affiliation once per 3/5/7 days (to prevent daily switchings)

3. catched spies appear on an overview page, giving information about the mission and the outcome (already implemented)

this way nobody can "spy" on alliance mates for mutual benefit (getting money even when all aid slots are full, changing government to monarchy, blocking the nations defensive spying slots...)

[Vor]

i already suggested a simple solution against the abuse of the spying features:

1. you are not allowed to spy on nations wearing your own alliance affiliation

2. you can only change your alliance affiliation once per 3/5/7 days (to prevent daily switchings)

3. catched spies appear on an overview page, giving information about the mission and the outcome (already implemented)

this way nobody can "spy" on alliance mates for mutual benefit (getting money even when all aid slots are full, changing government to monarchy, blocking the nations defensive spying slots...)

Then it would just be outsourced instead.

[fuzzycat]

i already suggested a simple solution against the abuse of the spying features:

1. you are not allowed to spy on nations wearing your own alliance affiliation

2. you can only change your alliance affiliation once per 3/5/7 days (to prevent daily switchings)

3. catched spies appear on an overview page, giving information about the mission and the outcome (already implemented)

this way nobody can "spy" on alliance mates for mutual benefit (getting money even when all aid slots are full, changing government to monarchy, blocking the nations defensive spying slots...)

Thats to simple a solution. We might for example just do the AAs "[alliance]" and "also [alliance]" do be able to use the spies on each other.

Also this would be a nice feature for ghosts, you cannot spy on a ghost with you AA? WTF! No this is definitely not a solution.

[Warfunn]

I think spies should have shovels and buckets. They come to your nation and steal your land. Muahahahahahaahahahaha!!

No no...that wouldnt work lol.

But Border Walls should defintly make it harder for spies to get in or out. If they have to climb a wall carrying enemy toasters it will be hard.

[Vor]

I think spies should have shovels and buckets. They come to your nation and steal your land. Muahahahahahaahahahaha!!

No no...that wouldnt work lol.

But Border Walls should defintly make it harder for spies to get in or out. If they have to climb a wall carrying enemy toasters it will be hard.

They could escape in a plane, or a boat! But I do agree boarder walls should do somthing to help with spies, but perhaps they should be renamed imigration control or somthing?

[Azaghul]

i already suggested a simple solution against the abuse of the spying features:

1. you are not allowed to spy on nations wearing your own alliance affiliation

2. you can only change your alliance affiliation once per 3/5/7 days (to prevent daily switchings)

3. catched spies appear on an overview page, giving information about the mission and the outcome (already implemented)

this way nobody can "spy" on alliance mates for mutual benefit (getting money even when all aid slots are full, changing government to monarchy, blocking the nations defensive spying slots...)

What about rogues?

[circlewood]

It could open up more improvements too... an Echelon system, an Intelligence Commitee etc that enable the spies to complete their mission's more succesfully.

Edited September 14, 2007 by circlewood

[Syzygy]

Then it would just be outsourced instead.

-> that is FAR more dangerous when it comes to abuse reports. you have to talk to other alliances members about it, chat on IRC or post at some boards about it to coordinate it - at some point someone who dont like you or who doesnt like governmental decisions will screenshot it or report it otherwise.

I didnt say it would take out the abuse 100%, but it makes it by far more difficult and dangerous to risk.

Thats to simple a solution. We might for example just do the AAs "[alliance]" and "also [alliance]" do be able to use the spies on each other.

Also this would be a nice feature for ghosts, you cannot spy on a ghost with you AA? WTF! No this is definitely not a solution.

Again, it is a lot of effort to change around AAs all the time, ppl can track and trace it (by seeing AA date history).

Ghosts can be simply attacked, like now. Why should you need to spy on them? Highlevel nations (30k+) usually dont "Ghost" other alliances and to "spy" on lowlevel nations is not even worth the cash.

What about rogues?

Same as for ghosts. If someone of a strength level that its worth of spying at him (highlevel nation) is ghosting your alliance and do rogue actions against another alliance, then your alliance will simply use military force against him, while the attacked alliance do the spying attacks on him, no problem.

[fuzzycat]

Sorry, that doesn't make much sense. You know, most of the missions are boring expensive. The only remotly interesting one in are destryoing nukes, and changing DEFCON while the other player is offline.(*)

Don't tell me, you can use it against anybody, but not against rogues.

IMHO, this all is far from ready, to be in the long-run a sensefull addition to the game.

(*) Thats another thing I don't like on this changing defcon issue, it forces you as player to constantly online if you want to be effective, to quikly be able to change your DEFCON back, if some spy changes it.

Edited September 14, 2007 by fuzzycat

[Syzygy]

i dont think you CAN change your DEFCON back on the same day if a spy has changed it, because a nation can only change its DEFCON once a day. So the attacked player will have to wait until the next update to change his DEFCON.

and as said, if you have a rogue within your ranks attacking another alliance, this alliance can simply perform the spying actions instead of you. Where is the problem? This scenario (a spy-worthy nation changing AA to another alliance, then going rogue) is not happening this often. The nation is usually dead afterwards (ZId, player quitting) so most of them are suicide bombers.

Performing spy-actions on non-nuclear low-NS nations is just not even worth the cash, so why even care about the possibility or not? On the other hand, if there is no such system, the doors are open to block the spy-slots with inter-alliance attacks what will be allday-business to protect the own highlevel nations. Game balance means weightening risks and finding a compromise. Looking at the really minor problems this solution would cause but the major abuse that can be prevented, i tend to disagree with you and say: It makes much sense.

[thesoulman]

I think this whole spy idea is stupid. Putting spies into the game where they can spy on nations and destroy infrastructure, steal tech, and change nation government and religion without even declaring war on them is stupid. It'll just give rogues and tech-raiding alliances even more to nations to corrupt.

[Haflinger]

The defending nation's counter intelligence systems are determined by (number of spies) + (technology level / 20) + (land purchased / 70).

Could this formula be changed to:

(number of spies) + (technology level / 20) + (total land / 70)

That way, people with resources that boost your natural land growth (cough, furs) might see some tiny tangible benefit from that fact?

[Allnighte]

Could this formula be changed to:

(number of spies) + (technology level / 20) + (total land / 70)

That way, people with resources that boost your natural land growth (cough, furs) might see some tiny tangible benefit from that fact?

furs changes purchased land too. the text is wrong (or outdated)

[fuzzycat]

i dont think you CAN change your DEFCON back on the same day if a spy has changed it, because a nation can only change its DEFCON once a day. So the attacked player will have to wait until the next update to change his DEFCON.

and as said, if you have a rogue within your ranks attacking another alliance, this alliance can simply perform the spying actions instead of you. Where is the problem? This scenario (a spy-worthy nation changing AA to another alliance, then going rogue) is not happening this often. The nation is usually dead afterwards (ZId, player quitting) so most of them are suicide bombers.

Performing spy-actions on non-nuclear low-NS nations is just not even worth the cash, so why even care about the possibility or not? On the other hand, if there is no such system, the doors are open to block the spy-slots with inter-alliance attacks what will be allday-business to protect the own highlevel nations. Game balance means weightening risks and finding a compromise. Looking at the really minor problems this solution would cause but the major abuse that can be prevented, i tend to disagree with you and say: It makes much sense.

The problem with your "solution", nuclear rogue sets his AA to GPA, and attacks GPA nations. Now we'd like to use the one and only sensefull feature of spy, destroy nuke. But then, wont do! because AA is the same. No this is not a "solution".

And as I told, for (mis)using spying for inneralliance benefits we'd change our AA just to "GPA" and "Green Protection Agency" different AA, spies go!

[Haflinger]

furs changes purchased land too. the text is wrong (or outdated)

Really?

Furs – Increases citizen’s daily income +$3.50 and increases the natural growth of a nation by 10%.

If this is wrong, maybe Admin should update this too: http://www.cybernations.net/about_topics.a...es_&_Trades

[nyce06]

does anybody know when spies are going to be officially added? i noticed on my military purchase screen there was a section to buy spies but it has become active yet

[Rozalia]

Admin, will you improve spies through resourses. I myself would like to see resourses like lead helping spies.

[nyce06]

man this wait is killing me

[Warfunn]

Yeah some resources should defintitly help a spy.

Automoblies: Should increase his chances of getting out without being detected/captured (Fast Getaway)

Scholars: Makes the spy overall better, because he is smarter.

Things like that.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Warfunn

[Syzygy]

A) The problem with your "solution", nuclear rogue sets his AA to GPA, and attacks GPA nations. Now we'd like to use the one and only sensefull feature of spy, destroy nuke. But then, wont do! because AA is the same. No this is not a "solution".

B) And as I told, for (mis)using spying for inneralliance benefits we'd change our AA just to "GPA" and "Green Protection Agency" different AA, spies go!

to A:

- sanction him, since he is a nuclear rogue, all teams will follow your request

- triple team him (2 on day1, 1 on day2) and keep him in eternal anarchy to prevent him from ever get a high tax income and/or escape into peacemode

- ZI him

+ either one of your own nations changes AA to something else and do the spy-attacks if you really want to do it yourself or you just ask a friend outside your alliance (everybody knows ANYONE who could just launch 2 spying attacks on your rogue to do you a favor)

to B:

- all this switching is 1. annoying if you must wait several days to switch back, 2. dangerous because techraiders may think the ones who dont use the accurate AA are ghosts free to raid, 3. track- and traceable and therefore easy to report for abuse.

[damienholmes]

Where is there any real-world precedent for these ideas? Sure, we all like to believe James Bond-esque missions are possible, but CN is a "geo-political, nation, and government simulator." Spies rarely blow stuff up; they deal more with intelligence gathering, as has been mentioned in this thread.

How would a spy be able to steal technology? Grab a computer and then kill every scientist that knows how to make a new one?

How could I spy destroy a nuke? Sure, I can see tampering with the targeting system so that it couldn't be fired for a day, but even getting into a position where one could do that damage, let alone having the tools and opportunity to cause that damage, is highly unlikely.

From a player perspective, the idea needs quite a few tweaks. In it's current manifestation, spies will cause chaos and be able to quickly and cheaply negate weeks of work for a nation.

$200,000 to destroy a nuclear weapon I spent $2,000,000 building? $350,000 to destroy infrastructure it cost me $16,000,000 to build?

When compared, the prices make even less sense. Why is the difference between a Defcon/government/religion shift - which will only marginally affect a nation - merely $50,000 less than the destruction of a tool which is worth $2,000,000?

Overall, admin, I'm glad you're building new features for this game. The spy idea has great potential, especially because it can reach nations in peace mode; however, its current iteration needs quite a bit of work and player consultation. Please, take the advice in this thread to heart.

Quoted for truth

The feature is almost as broken as the geurilla camps!

[TheDave]

People seem to be living in fantasy land with their views on what spies can accomplish.

Not all spies sneak across the border, do their work then leave.

Some are working within organisations for years, decades even and leaking information and doing damage from the inside.

Henceforth it really isn't that difficult for them to achieve all the things being said they would have no chance to do.

[Anubis[Genesis]]

Spy on me i nuke you! Not myself, another.

[Rozalia]

Spy on me i nuke you! Not myself, another.

Was that really nessesary.