fuzzycat

Normaly you get deleted for not collecting 20 days. Not for not paying your bills, or activiely paying your bills. Bills don't matter!

Honestly I don't think democracy works well with all this gameplay decissions. And I prefer consens achieved in posts far more than the simple "do a vote" call. There *is* a majority of roxxor kids that will vote for any feautre they consider cool for themselves, and give a damm how it affects gameplay over all. If democracy would be in place, how many new roxxor wonders would have to be implemented? Second if decissions would be taken with democracies strongly applied, this would alter the gameplay in a new meta-stage, as alliances could "order" (ask) their people in vote this or that way. So as soon you got a majority of players on your side, you can alter the gamerules to your favor -> thats bad. Game rules should be altered by rationality, reason and sanity, and I don't actually see votes to be a big supporter of either of this 3.

Okay when you do RL-comparisons: * When did you last heara of a spy destroying an infrastructure? Goldengatebridge destroyed by a spy? * When did you last hear of a spy destroying a nuke? * When did you last hear of a spy *destroying* tech? Yes they industry-espionage does "steal" tech, in the sense the copy the plans, but they don't destroy. And even if copying this is quite different since the attacker gains tech while the attacked doesn't actually lose anything. And the favorites: * When did you last hear of a spy changing the desired government? And even better: * When did you last hear of a spy changing the desired religion? If it takes them years to work within organisatiions, why is their result on CN instant? It should take them weeks then at least....

A: here you suggest to change the AA to be able to spy on rogue B: here you say changing AA to spy on your own AA is stupid. Dude, whatever, I still don't consider your "solution" to solve anything. Also if 2 alliances are befriended why not change the desired government and religion of you friend-alliance if one asks you to do it? The problem is spies can do something that is actually benefectical to another nation, which out of some ultra-stange reason the nation cannot do itself. Thats the problem, not checking if AA are the same or different.

The problem with your "solution", nuclear rogue sets his AA to GPA, and attacks GPA nations. Now we'd like to use the one and only sensefull feature of spy, destroy nuke. But then, wont do! because AA is the same. No this is not a "solution". And as I told, for (mis)using spying for inneralliance benefits we'd change our AA just to "GPA" and "Green Protection Agency" different AA, spies go!

Sorry, that doesn't make much sense. You know, most of the missions are boring expensive. The only remotly interesting one in are destryoing nukes, and changing DEFCON while the other player is offline.(*) Don't tell me, you can use it against anybody, but not against rogues. IMHO, this all is far from ready, to be in the long-run a sensefull addition to the game. (*) Thats another thing I don't like on this changing defcon issue, it forces you as player to constantly online if you want to be effective, to quikly be able to change your DEFCON back, if some spy changes it.

Thats to simple a solution. We might for example just do the AAs "[alliance]" and "also [alliance]" do be able to use the spies on each other. Also this would be a nice feature for ghosts, you cannot spy on a ghost with you AA? WTF! No this is definitely not a solution.

This will cost 400k per day. That makes it legit IMHO, as opposed to war slot filling. And there could be a honest interest on my nation in the alliance too.. so don't tell me moderatoin will then check every spy mission, why it has been taken and if it was used to protect the target, or if it was used in a "honest" way of interest. What scares me most ist getting maximum spy protection, will cost me 550*100k = 55Millions (!)

Not quite, inner alliance wars are okay AFAIK as long at least one side attacks, war slot filling costs nothing that makes it illegal, while spy slot "filling" will cost stuff. And as said, I can see already a set of uses, after arrangement to use spies "against" friendly nation. Oh and don't forget peoples reasonable fear, that discovering trades might change the game quite somewhat, as specially to the disadvantage of smaller alliances.

To be explicate, revealing is currently planned, but it should NOT just be a PM on the nations owner. It should be publically visible and checkable that (s)he catched this or that nation spying on him/her nation.

Did you start with Martin Luther "realism" or I? Its not just unrealistic a spy can change the desired religion, this stuff will have gameplay effects, people whose nation desires an undesireable government will just post in their Alliance, hey guys and somebody please spyattack me to change the desired religion? I'll set readiness on a minimum also... I'll owe you a favor for this..

a.) Martin Luther = Way Off Topic b.) Martin Luther was not a spy. c.) It took him a life time. Its not today this tomorrow that.

Wel they shouldn't be able to change your *desired* religion. How can they do that? If you as suproeme commander of your nation cannot change the desired religion, how should a lousy spy be able to do that?

Also what I wonder why nobody has mentioned it yet. IMHO without a feature to proof caught spying this all could be in the long run a huge disaster, destroying the politics of the game, the one interesting thing for a majority here, and transform it into a everyone vs. everyone PvP. Yes FAN will be happy, but the majority of people here will not. What I mean is a tab panel on the nation, where you can view evidence of spies it has caught. Oh yes, someguy will just answer, you can screenshot the PM the game gives you. Well you can, but you can also easily manifacture that. Another one will post, oh its not RL compatible. No it is, when I catch an opposing spy, I can show him to the world. Look nation X has tried to spy against me. Same as when he left fingerprints back. Without public checkable spy evidence, political incidents will degenerate into a flamefest fast. A: Alliance X spied against me, and destroyed all my money. B: Proof? A: Here are screenshots the PMs, I even caught 2 nations in the act. B: Oh well you, I have photoshop too! Oh and the one spy mission that really is missing, reveal all recent spy missions of the other nation. Oh and nerfing peacemode, if you hate peacemode get it simply out of the game, before removing it sense layer by layer. Its there for a reason. And I agree with previous poster, Spy-rogues in peacemode are going to be an utter pain.

As has been suggested already, "saboteur" might be a far better name. Even now the "Gather Intelligence" mission has been added its only 1 spy-mission against 12 missions that are actually saboteur-missions. --- Also the "Incite Government Propaganda" and "Incite Religious Propaganda" missions are IMHO just redicolous. I as supreme ruler of my nation cannot change what my people desire, through any propaganda, but a lousy spy can? Com'mon. --- And this whole issue of spies as additional tools not using war slots. How much sense does it really make? It is very likely that most alliances will treat caught spy missions as hostile acts, and reasons as a spark for inter-alliance war like a normal decleration of war. In fact on one hand, all it will be is yet another weapon to be thrown at each other at war. On the other hand, spies will make tools to interact between friendly nations, like transfering tech, or changing the desired goverment for a friend. Also revelealing the trade partners, yes nice idea there, but it will not actually change much of the game. Why? If an alliance is an peace it will not be spied upon. That means your tradepartners are as secret as always. If you are at war with another alliance, they will use spies against you as weapon also. Now they now you are trading with whom they don't want you to trade with. What will they do now, declare war upon you?

I can forecast you this: Spies are going to be "missused" to additionall transfer tech besides aid slots between friendly nations. Of course this makes tech more expensive per level than usual trading, but for top nations this is just another *additional* way of getting tech to them, when their slots already filled up. And it be still much cheaper than to buy tech the normal way. In future a tech deal will look like this: I send you 3M you send me 50 tech and again 50 tech, and allow me to "spy-steal" your tech 3 times, oh and please set readiness to minimum. Don't forget your additional benefeit: You will be safe from foreign spy missions why I "spy" you. Also this Incite Government Propagand and Incite Religious Propaganda missions, its going to work like this inside the alliance: "Hey dude, here is 3M can you please spy-attack me each day, until my people desire monarchy? Thank you! Rince and repeat if my people change their mind again". For hugh nations this is going to pay off.

Warning: I know this going to be a bit flametory, but its really just the way I think about these new changes: The game is quite bad on so many levels, that could so easily been fixed,.. but admin has no time for that. Now this whole spy things, like we didn't have yet enough tools to harm others, there are soldiers, tanks, fighters, bombers, cms and nukes. Not to forget all the improvments that improve your military effectiveness. But yet we cannot buy more than 20 infra in one click... too much programming to code? We cannot sort the team senators to vote for. We cannot have drawn statistics (there are packages where it is so easy to do with). We cannot even have summs of infra/tech/tanks for each alliances. etc. etc. Heck! we might have even an *working* alliance system *in* the game, instead of this AA hack, yes AAs are just a quick hack to it. A system with levels of hierachy, where you *allow* people in or out. No more ghosts, no more ninja AA switching, just like any other at least medicore well done MMORPG handles guilds for example. But no admin has time enough on hand, to create yet another weapon type...