European War OOC Thread

[Centurius]

Actually, I was wrong, her most recent post was as of the 22nd.

OOC post not IC

[Mogar]

OOC post not IC

As Yeru informed me that they informed both Voodoo and Rudy of this vacation, and all you're really doing is proving you are still the same exact person you were in RP1, willing to afford your allies 16 days without posting, but your enemies then only receive 5 before they get wiped? equality!

[Centurius]

As Yeru informed me that they informed both Voodoo and Rudy of this vacation, and all you're really doing is proving you are still the same exact person you were in RP1, willing to afford your allies 16 days without posting, but your enemies then only receive 5 before they get wiped? equality!

Informing someone is not the same as having the inactivity line extended, Yeru could heave easily made an ic post anywhere in the last 23 days before she went on vacation. As for the delays, had we gone 16 days without any valid active complaint you'd be able to get an auto 9 days before we posted..

[Shave N Haircut]

Are you seriously trying this? This is just... Holy shit. Wow.

[Mogar]

Informing someone is not the same as having the inactivity line extended, Yeru could heave easily made an ic post anywhere in the last 23 days before she went on vacation. As for the delays, had we gone 16 days without any valid active complaint you'd be able to get an auto 9 days before we posted..

so communication to a GM is irrelevant? I was unaware that I had to make an IC post when explicitly stating what was occurring to a GM, amazing how flexible the rules seem to be.

[Triyun]

1. I never actually RP'd my strike getting into range of your aircraft or even leaving my own AD bubble, only the launch. You RPd my craft like I had. Don't do that. If it's not explicitly stated, it didn't happen. You RP your units closing with and attacking my aircraft, while they're still inside their own home turf, expect to pay the consequences.

 

2. You forget that half of my strike was armed for anti-air operations. That's two hundred aircraft just as capable as anything you field, ready to rip your anti-shipping strike to pieces. Seeing as they hadn't even left my AD bubble yet, we then have 200+64=264 aircraft to take out your anti-shipping strike.

 

3. On the subject of the ASMs, my brain read the Hornet's payload weight as 18000kg, rather than roughly 18000 pounds. I'll go slice the Oniks missile launch from the planes in half. My bad, no biggie.

 

4. As to the ASBMs, all I will say is 99.88% success rate. I'll go let let a bomblet hit a frigate.

 

Add'ly, until the Battle of Britain is over, Lynneth's ships are still there, attacking you. That's the last thing I heard out of a GM's mouth, anyway.

 

As a note, I may not respond to anything for a bit, I've got stuff to do before my move to Naval Base 32nd Street, San Diego.

 

1.  "The fleet's remaining 210 fighters would then launch as well, all aimed like a spear towards the enemy's fleet. They, too, would be coordinated and predicated on their allies' attacks being launched."   Aimed like a spear 'towards the enemy fleet'.  Going to your thing on the P-800, if a missile isn't rated for a fighter IRL, you cannot use it, hence the other debates about the METEOR and the Brahmos.  Your aircraft are at 460 kilometers minimum back, to fire they must be in range of an ASM, meaning the harpoon for a F-18 Super Hornet.

 

2.  Your AD bubble was 460 kilometers back from when my fleet wasn't moving, which extended out 120 kilos.  At the max range, the longest range anti-shipping weapon the Hornet is rated for has a 270 meter range and I was moving away from you.  Arithmetic means you have to go minimum of 30 kilometers outside your envelope to shoot.  Also again you're RPing 2002 Super Hornets.  You sent them again [b]towards[/b] my fleet to strike.  You're altering their mission for convinience sake while assuming you can completely alter my mission to help yourself out.

 

[spoiler]JadeLithaen: My destroyers are within SM-2ER range.

[5:45pm] Triyun: what class are they, the rules were pretty clear apply to everyone
[5:45pm] JadeLithaen: of my carriers.
[5:45pm] Triyun: Are you destroyers within harpoon range of my ships?
[5:45pm] JadeLithaen: George HW Bush.
[5:45pm] Triyun: I’m sorry?
[5:45pm] JadeLithaen: that's the subclass of my carriers
[5:46pm] JadeLithaen: Nimitz, subclass GHWB.
[5:46pm] Triyun: How did you build that
[5:46pm] Triyun: if you have 200 tech?
[5:46pm] JadeLithaen: Remember, Tri, this was explained to you already
[5:46pm] JadeLithaen: It isn't tech, it's infra.
[5:46pm] Triyun: no
[5:46pm] Triyun: but tech level
[5:46pm] Triyun: determines what you can build
[5:46pm] Triyun: and if something was built in 2008
[6:16pm] Triyun: ?
[7:12pm] JadeLithaen: As a note, my ships are using the RGM-84L Block 2 Harpoon with a range of 150 nm.
[7:12pm] JadeLithaen: As to your question of how I'm building the ships, the short answer is: I'm not.
[7:13pm] JadeLithaen: It's still perfectly allowable to have a higher-tech nation build a lower-tech nation's equipment.
[7:13pm] Triyun: Who built them and where
[7:13pm] Triyun: Cause I couldn’t find a thread
[7:15pm] Triyun: also the block 2 has a 120 kilo range best I can find
[7:15pm] JadeLithaen: RGM/AGM-84L (Block 2): 278 km (150 nmi)
[7:15pm] Triyun: Ok
[7:15pm] Triyun: so yur naval forces
[7:15pm] Triyun: then
[7:16pm] JadeLithaen: First launch is at TASM range
[7:16pm] Triyun: I assume you’ll show me the links where you bought the block 2 and the ships right?
[7:16pm] JadeLithaen: second launch is at Harpoon range, and the Harpoons are being fired by my Skjolds.[/spoiler]

 

3.  You completely missed my argument here.  Again the P-800 isn't rated for the Hornet, and it cannot fit on a Hornet.  I was simply pointed out bigger flankers carry 1.  You cannot have a Russian missile on a US aircraft with no RP.

 

4.  No... you can't god mode period.  I defended the specifics of my attack in a GM discussion.  Mogar may have gone off on a rant and derailed the discussion, but I had a lot of reasoning.  You can't just out of spite avoid taking damage from another person you need to RP good reasons.  I've clearly brought up irrefutable evidence your defense does not work and that you're god moding on a second level by playing out of your tech range.  You need to address [b]that, not be snippy.[/b]

 

And on the subject of Lynneth according to Voodoo they are gone, also according to Lynneth they are gone.  Only players can play their stuff, not anyone else.  One person, one nation.

[Triyun]

As a compromise for this war btw, I'm willing to get rid of all my customs if people do the same and assume I'm using F-22s.  Nothing I've done with the Black Widow yet is not something the Raptor can do.

[Lysergide]

As a compromise for this war btw, I'm willing to get rid of all my customs if people do the same and assume I'm using F-22s.  Nothing I've done with the Black Widow yet is not something the Raptor can do.

 

The F-22 is a superior plane anyway.

[Centurius]

FHIC

The Ballistic attacks were something different. French officials were tempted to deploy the Nuclear stockpile at the detection of them, but this was decided to be brash, and the stockpile was thus just put on the highest possible alert pending the reveal of the nature of these weapons. In the meantime, Aester countermeasures were deployed to intercept the missiles before they reached their targets. Naturally this was somewhat less effective and thus more of these got through, but the effects were still rather negligible to the overall war effort.

The Jericho-2 has an operational range of at least 1,300 km(the exact number isn’t known so I’m just going by the longest confirmed test launch for military purposes here), the Aster-30 Block 1(the only one currently in using seeing as the 1NT is predicted for later in this decade and the Block 2 only in the 2020s) can only engage missiles in the <600-km range.

First, the French addressed the situation of the air-battle over Corsica. Much like in the North, the weapons fired from the south weren’t even terribly difficult for intercepting Mirage 2000s to shoot down, out and out. Anti-Air systems took care of most of the rest with some small amount of difficulty due to their low altitude flying. Some of them would, of course, strike their targets. This was inevitable, but the damage was far from significant. The same approach to Electronic Warfare was being taken in the South as it was in the North.

In Corsica you aren’t just dealing with missile strikes. There are squadrons of F-1s and F-15 Slam Eagles engaging your aircraft. Block IV Tomahawks are also very difficult to properly detect and track due to the inherent advantages of being subsonic as well as the design of the missile. Added to that the missiles only had to go a very short distance and owing to the size of Corsica if even a small percentage of the missiles hit their targets the ability of France to properly maintain an anti-air capability is practically annihilated. Using Mirage 2000s isn’t helping here either as it isn’t really equipped to be used against even the older Tomahawks.

The same story was told on the continental side, but with great warning comes great preparedness; far more entertaining to the various interceptor craft and the ground forces were the baffling amount of helicopters which had somehow been transported to their coast. Needless to say, between the deployment of a sizable amount of Mistral on the coast and a gleeful force of interceptor craft, it was entirely likely that none of them would survive.

First of all you don’t get to define the order of attack, I quite explicitly stated that the attack against the French mainland preceded the one against Corsica. The AGM-158 is a low observable missile and is not easy to detect. Especially not by an outdated aircraft like the Mirage 2000 that simply doesn’t have the radar capability for it. The Apache is not only a helicopter but also an anti-runway missile developed by MBDA. The whole being launched from a bomber should have given that away. It too enjoys a stealthy design and thus isn’t easy to simply detect.

The invasion of Corsica was somewhat of a surprise from the French side, but not for the reason that one might think. Seventh Corps hadn’t been expecting combat so soon.
The Paratrooper mission was doomed from the start. C-130 were not armed to evade being hit by Anti-Air missiles, and they would find those in abundance as soon as they were identified.

They are using A400Ms and not C-130s. Added to that the earlier strike was intended to cripple your anti-air capability which as of yet you didn’t respond properly to. Finally these aircraft are not moving in unescorted. The air space is filled with Carthaginian aircraft and the initial missile strikes will have strongly crippled if not taken out your ability to respond to an airborne threat. Again due to the limited travel time and minimal amount of time spent in airspace you can effectively track it seems a stretch to even be capable of launching a response.

The attack on Ajaccio fared even worse, French forces almost didn’t believe their luck, being delivered such forces. Of course, XIV ID was ready to receive. Heavy Artillery rained down in accurate barrages on the ships even before they reached the coast, as well as a Cruise Missile each. It was unlikely that they made it to the coast, much less the city-proper.

You’re ignoring that once again these units are backed by air support against airborne threats as well as F-15Is and UCAVs specifically sent in to engage your VII Corps. Also due to that initial missile strike it seems unlikely you would have the ability to launch missiles against the landing craft.
Mogar:

The Cathargian Global Hawks were shot down upon detection long before they reached the coalition's fleet, which made the Carthargian ASBMs as unsuccessful as the British attempts.

Please do clarify just how these were even immediately detected. Block 40 Global Hawks are among the newest generations of UAVs and thus enjoy quite some protection. It is also not that easy to just shoot it down even if detected and seeing as you actually rp’d the result of attacks against my aircraft it is a godmod.
 

[Mogar]

Same way mine were, AWACS, and then Harriers fired missiles, feel free to describe how many countermeasures they have, I probably have more harrier than you have global hawks.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mogar

[Peter Ilyich]

Cent is being enemy-ist!

Also, isn't the inactivity time 30 days, or am I just dreaming?

Edited October 26, 2014 by Ferdinand Foch

[Triyun]

A harrier catching a global hawk seems.... unlikely.

[Shave N Haircut]

FHIC

The Jericho-2 has an operational range of at least 1,300 km(the exact number isn’t known so I’m just going by the longest confirmed test launch for military purposes here), the Aster-30 Block 1(the only one currently in using seeing as the 1NT is predicted for later in this decade and the Block 2 only in the 2020s) can only engage missiles in the <600-km range.

Fair enough.
 

In Corsica you aren’t just dealing with missile strikes. There are squadrons of F-1s and F-15 Slam Eagles engaging your aircraft. Block IV Tomahawks are also very difficult to properly detect and track due to the inherent advantages of being subsonic as well as the design of the missile. Added to that the missiles only had to go a very short distance and owing to the size of Corsica if even a small percentage of the missiles hit their targets the ability of France to properly maintain an anti-air capability is practically annihilated. Using Mirage 2000s isn’t helping here either as it isn’t really equipped to be used against even the older Tomahawks.

 

You assume that, having completely missed that there was an entire corps of French troops on the island, that you could pinpoint the location of any anti-air battery, much less enough to cripple our capabilities. However, I do seem to have failed to address those, which will be fixed with the solving of the Ballistic problem.

First of all you don’t get to define the order of attack, I quite explicitly stated that the attack against the French mainland preceded the one against Corsica. The AGM-158 is a low observable missile and is not easy to detect. Especially not by an outdated aircraft like the Mirage 2000 that simply doesn’t have the radar capability for it. The Apache is not only a helicopter but also an anti-runway missile developed by MBDA. The whole being launched from a bomber should have given that away. It too enjoys a stealthy design and thus isn’t easy to simply detect.

 

The first point changes precisely dick, but ok, fine. The second point is entirely wrong, as the most modern Mirage 2000 has equal-to-greater radar capabilities to most current fighters. The third point makes a whole lot more sense than the retarded gibberish that it seemed like, but maybe you should specify next time when dealing with an obscure weapon that shares the same name as a rather mainstream one? I only let it go because it would have been ridiculously irrelevant.
 

They are using A400Ms and not C-130s. Added to that the earlier strike was intended to cripple your anti-air capability which as of yet you didn’t respond properly to. Finally these aircraft are not moving in unescorted. The air space is filled with Carthaginian aircraft and the initial missile strikes will have strongly crippled if not taken out your ability to respond to an airborne threat. Again due to the limited travel time and minimal amount of time spent in airspace you can effectively track it seems a stretch to even be capable of launching a response.

 

 

The first point is irrelevant, the second is already addressed, the third is also irrelevant as Anti-air would take them on as well, the forth is also already addressed, and the fifth is absolutely ridiculous. If you're "filling my airspace" as you say, and I'm prepared for such a thing (Which I am), a response would be absolutely immediate.

 

You’re ignoring that once again these units are backed by air support against airborne threats as well as F-15Is and UCAVs specifically sent in to engage your VII Corps. Also due to that initial missile strike it seems unlikely you would have the ability to launch missiles against the landing craft.

 

Didn't ignore that at all, but ok? Your airpower is engaged by the Anti-air, and your missiles, again, without any good intel, were almost entirely ineffective.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Shave N Haircut

[Mogar]

A harrier catching a global hawk seems.... unlikely.

AWACS locates it, Harriers shoot it down, unless of course it elects not to be within range of my fleet, I would have allowed Hershey or Yeru to have dealt with it, but unfortunately due to your prolonged inactivity, they apparently fell inactive.

[Triyun]

Again you're misunderstanding the Mirage 2000's capabilities FHIC as I said in query.  If you look at that wiki article you referenced you'll notice its referencing the older F-16 and F-18 radars, not the newest ones.  It has better capabilities than most of the radars on legacy F-16s and F-18s.  That's not the same thing as the top end radars.  Most of the F-16 and F-18 fleet have old radars that's why we're budgeting to replace them.  They're not the same as the AESA radars that are being built on new F-18s and F-16s as well as are scheduled for upgrades.  I've got substantial objections too I'll be posting them later.  

 

And Mogar, a harriers are slow compared to modern fighters and doesn't fly very high, a Global Hawk flies very very high and thus has quite the long range field of view as a result.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Triyun

[Mogar]

Harriers are twice the speed of a Global Hawk, as such catching up to one would be fairly easy, they also do not seem to have much in the way of countermeasures besides a towed array.

[Lestari]

Except the Global Hawk is completely comfortable at 60,000 feet in the air; the highest numbers I can find for most harrier variants is a service ceiling ten thousand or more feet lower than that.

[Mogar]

Except the Global Hawk is completely comfortable at 60,000 feet in the air; the highest numbers I can find for most harrier variants is a service ceiling ten thousand or more feet lower than that.

the Operational range of every single missile platform the harrier can carry appears to be more than 2 miles, so I don't think the extra 10,000 feet matters significantly.

[Lestari]

Hmm, could be a good point.

[Mogar]

I grasp having a higher ceiling would matter if I was dogfighting, but they're drone aircraft, and my own RQ-170s apparently were just canon fodder and yet are actually a stealthy design, as such I do not believe the Global Hawk, would fare much better, especially against HARMs.

[Lestari]

I grasp having a higher ceiling would matter if I was dogfighting, but they're drone aircraft, and my own RQ-170s apparently were just canon fodder and yet are actually a stealthy design, as such I do not believe the Global Hawk, would fare much better, especially against HARMs.

I think you've vastly overrated the stealth capabilities of the RQ-170, since one of the few things the public actually does know about the RQ-170 is that a number of key stealth techniques were omitted from its design.

Frankly, given how little is concretely known of the thing, I still don't really think it should be valid for use in CNRP.

[Mogar]

I think you've vastly overrated the stealth capabilities of the RQ-170, since one of the few things the public actually does know about the RQ-170 is that a number of key stealth techniques were omitted from its design.

Frankly, given how little is concretely known of the thing, I still don't really think it should be valid for use in CNRP.

could you link me to any  stealth capabilities the Global Hawk has? I would assume at least some are better than none.

[Lestari]

could you link me to any  stealth capabilities the Global Hawk has? I would assume at least some are better than none.

none, as far as i'm aware (that awareness being gleaned by a cursory glance through the wikipedia article on it :v) but then, the global hawk really isn't intended for use in high threat or deep penetration scenarios.

[Mogar]

well, exactly, hence why I feel an AWACS would pick them up, someone would say "Hey, there's an aircraft!" and then send some planes to shoot it down.

[Lestari]

Nevertheless, Triyun's initial contention was that they were detected at all-- at least, so immediately.