DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 What a crybaby. Defeated his alliance nearly a year ago and he's still whining about it. Sheesh. Thank you for proving the point I just made, more instigating from ..What alliance you in? Ah yes, the alliance you are sitting in at 17th position right now. Wow, you were 12th earlier, they are really kicking your ass aren't they? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolutionaryRebel Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Okay, now y'all being ridiculous. Let's just handle the disingenuous assertions one at a time.Those screaming about 'rogues', please identify what a rogue is, and why you think x is a rogue in this context.Those claiming that this war is about anything other than a) methrage's conduct, or b) the war LN initiated against LPH, please explain why you believe such. Have fun with that all, simple fact is, deal have been reached, changed, reached again, changed again, and that is from both sides.It's time someone made a simple decision and stuck to it rather than going back and forth like a shakeweightWe're over the cycle. He isn't. We offer white peace, he declines. That's basically where we're at. Methrage would rather use allies as meatshields than give up a feud. He was like this with GOONS, I don't see this being too different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Have fun with that all, simple fact is, deal have been reached, changed, reached again, changed again, and that is from both sides. It's time someone made a simple decision and stuck to it rather than going back and forth like a shakeweight That's the way thse guys do it though, request peace then nuke. They just happen to run into an alliance that is fighting and winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Layton Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thank you for proving the point I just made, more instigating from ..What alliance you in? Ah yes, the alliance you are sitting in at 17th position right now. Wow, you were 12th earlier, they are really kicking your ass aren't they? :) I'm such a warmongering rogue that my last war was started on July 2nd in defence of RIOT Society. And even then, I was the defender. Other than the war I just declared today on an unaligned nation of which my opponent has literally not yet fired a single shot. 3200 infra disappears from my nation in a single day with my troop level clearly far above what would normally be possible at my current infra level and my last war being two months ago. Nah, couldn't possibly have sold all that infra. Which leads to your second point. If I'm selling thousands of infra to get to a lower NS, do you really think my goal is to build up as high as possible? My goal is to defend the little guys and keep them in the game. Something you wouldn't understand. I don't know why you keep posting in this thread. To remind everyone of the beating your alliance took? This isn't about you. You don't intimidate anyone, so why don't you go play in traffic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Those screaming about 'rogues', please identify what a rogue is, and why you think x is a rogue in this context. Usually a rogue is a nation that distence themselves from an alliance all together, with the intention of attacking an alliance. Here the rogues are allowed back into the alliance, to which the treaties start to apply for protection. Nobody is forcing you, you're still involved because you want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'm such a warmongering rogue that my last war was started on July 2nd in defence of RIOT Society. And even then, I was the defender. Other than the war I just declared today on an unaligned nation of which my opponent has literally not yet fired a single shot. 3200 infra disappears from my nation in a single day with my troop level clearly far above what would normally be possible at my current infra level and my last war being two months ago. Nah, couldn't possibly have sold all that infra. Which leads to your second point. If I'm selling thousands of infra to get to a lower NS, do you really think my goal is to build up as high as possible? My goal is to defend the little guys and keep them in the game. Something you wouldn't understand. I don't know why you keep posting in this thread. To remind everyone of the beating your alliance took? This isn't about you. You don't intimidate anyone, so why don't you go play in traffic? That wasn't your goal when you were nuking our little guys, did you forget that or are you lying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Layton Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I see the reason why you keep posting in this thread is to remind everyone of the beating your alliance took, otherwise you wouldn't be continually whining about how your alliance was crushed nearly a year ago. Time to move on and stop derailing the thread. If Methrage finds my proposed peace agreement unacceptable and wishes to continue hostilities, then we will be forced to defend LPH as usual. It's too bad as I thought that agreement was rather satisfactory for everyone and we could have ended this tonight. Ah well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolutionaryRebel Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Usually a rogue is a nation that distence themselves from an alliance all together, with the intention of attacking an alliance. Here the rogues are allowed back into the alliance, to which the treaties start to apply for protection. The use of the word 'Rogue' implies a lack of control, or ill-discipline. It also seems to depend on context. For instance, if an ally is attacked and your alliance decides not to go to war, should individual members honour the treaty or not? According to your definition, they would be 'rogues', but surely, wouldn't that be an honourable thing to do in context?OOC: I was involved in an instance like this in a past life waaaay wwaay back during the GATO-1V war. Ancient history now. CPCN didn't defend GATO, but individual members decided to support them anyway. The question is; are there causes that may give individual nations a reason to fight without the protection of an alliance? If it's with good intentions, is roguing 'good'? If these nations say they are fighting due to the ongoing conflict between LN and LPH (which was strongly in LN's favour before our involvement, then a peace deal would end their involvement. If their cause for war was simply to attack for the sake of attacking, then that would become immediately obvious, and they wouldn't have anywhere near as much support. Edited August 25, 2014 by RevolutionaryRebel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I see the reason why you keep posting in this thread is to remind everyone of the beating your alliance took, otherwise you wouldn't be continually whining about how your alliance was crushed nearly a year ago. Time to move on and stop derailing the thread. If Methrage finds my proposed peace agreement unacceptable and wishes to continue hostilities, then we will be forced to defend LPH as usual. It's too bad as I thought that agreement was rather satisfactory for everyone and we could have ended this tonight. Ah well. We are defending ourselves against unprovoked attacks. LPH attacked us. The only deal I think will have a lasting impact on peace is the one SirKiloist proposed, but now Rey has indicated he is rescinding it. Peace with LPH will be worked out between us at an appropriate time, but each additional attack on our AA by people wanting to be included as part of some bigger side just makes any discussions with LPH on peace the last thing on my mind. If you want to threaten my people with whatever it is you're threatening us with, imagine yourself as that Persian Messenger which got kicked down that pit in 300. Madness you say? This is Limitless Nexus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I see the reason why you keep posting in this thread is to remind everyone of the beating your alliance took, otherwise you wouldn't be continually whining about how your alliance was crushed nearly a year ago. Time to move on and stop derailing the thread. If Methrage finds my proposed peace agreement unacceptable and wishes to continue hostilities, then we will be forced to defend LPH as usual. It's too bad as I thought that agreement was rather satisfactory for everyone and we could have ended this tonight. Ah well. No, see you're getting sidetracked and throwing wild things out there. I'm posting to help you. For some reason you and your alliance thinks you can rogue from your alliance and you really don't like people calling you out on it. You keep saying you crushed us, but I know that didn't happen, you were simply an annoyance. This pic shows you nuking our guys after jumping from Kashmir, then you went back to Kashmir to escape. It doesn't really matter when it hapened, it's real and that's you in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 We are defending ourselves against unprovoked attacks. LPH attacked us.*In retaliation to the wars declared against LPH months agoThe only deal I think will have a lasting impact on peace is the one SirKiloist proposed, but now Rey has indicated he is rescinding it.After you agreed to and rescinded white peace several times, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall14 Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 We are defending ourselves against unprovoked attacks. LPH attacked us. The only deal I think will have a lasting impact on peace is the one SirKiloist proposed, but now Rey has indicated he is rescinding it. Peace with LPH will be worked out between us at an appropriate time, but each additional attack on our AA by people wanting to be included as part of some bigger side just makes any discussions with LPH on peace the last thing on my mind. If you want to threaten my people with whatever it is you're threatening us with, imagine yourself as that Persian Messenger which got kicked down that pit in 300. Madness you say? This is Limitless Nexus. Word to the Mutha Ship...What he said! o/ LN We have unprovoked attacks from 4 AAs who are now threathening us to peace out or so and so ally or bloc is going to attack us if we don't eat !@#$ and stop defending ourselves...Molon Labe!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 You're not defending yourselves, you're facing the repercussions of Methrage's refusal to negotiate a peace deal two months or so ago. There's evidence on Kashmir forums if you want to go see it. It isn't my fault that I have friends willing to go to bat for a good cause. There was plenty of provoking -- and plenty of "you don't have friends so we don't have to worry about this" -- so shut the fuck up and eat the shit that you splattered on your own plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thank you for proving the point I just made, more instigating from ..What alliance you in? Ah yes, the alliance you are sitting in at 17th position right now. Wow, you were 12th earlier, they are really kicking your ass aren't they? :) I'd like to say that you have the intelligence of a six year old every single time you bring up someone's size or rank. That's a really silly form of attacking somebody and you should be ashamed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Layton Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) We are defending ourselves against unprovoked attacks. LPH attacked us. The only deal I think will have a lasting impact on peace is the one SirKiloist proposed, but now Rey has indicated he is rescinding it. Peace with LPH will be worked out between us at an appropriate time, but each additional attack on our AA by people wanting to be included as part of some bigger side just makes any discussions with LPH on peace the last thing on my mind. If you want to threaten my people with whatever it is you're threatening us with, imagine yourself as that Persian Messenger which got kicked down that pit in 300. Madness you say? This is Limitless Nexus. You seem eager to try and be a victim of some sort. Threatening you? I just spent the last few hours trying to negotiate a peace settlement that would be acceptable to you and long-lasting (which you rejected). Does peace threaten you? I haven't threatened to attack you or your alliance with no cause. I have always stated my desire to defend LPH. If you were not at war with LPH, we wouldn't be talking. As for Dumb as a DoorNail, can you please stop trying to make this about you? Nobody cares about the circumstances under which you were defeated. I don't even care. This thread is about something different. If you wish to cry about it more, I can recommend a good therapist. Seriously, calling me a "rogue" doesn't insult me or intimidate me in the slightest. I'm unsure what you are trying to accomplish, but it's certainly not working. I'd like to say that you have the intelligence of a six year old every single time you bring up someone's size or rank. That's a really silly form of attacking somebody and you should be ashamed. We Kashmiri are used to having our philosophy misunderstood. I change my nation strength to suit the needs of my alliance and my allies. If I need to be stronger, I increase. If I need to be weaker, I decrease. The principle is quite simple. I'm uninterested in being a 100,000NS nation with nothing to do but sit on billions of virtual dollars doing absolutely nothing. Being part of the action is what makes the game interesting. Losing pixels doesn't concern me. When I first started playing, I got curbstomped left and right by random raiders. I learned how to protect myself, to fight, and to develop a stronger nation. It's part of the process. If someone quits because I have attacked them (for whatever reason), that's unfortunate. But they weren't serious players anyway. Virtually all of us went through that process. I make no apologies for playing the game my way. Edited August 25, 2014 by Jack Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 The use of the word 'Rogue' implies a lack of control, or ill-discipline. It also seems to depend on context. For instance, if an ally is attacked and your alliance decides not to go to war, should individual members honour the treaty or not? According to your definition, they would be 'rogues', but surely, wouldn't that be an honourable thing to do in context?OOC: I was involved in an instance like this in a past life waaaay wwaay back during the GATO-1V war. Ancient history now. CPCN didn't defend GATO, but individual members decided to support them anyway. The question is; are there causes that may give individual nations a reason to fight without the protection of an alliance? If it's with good intentions, is roguing 'good'? If these nations say they are fighting due to the ongoing conflict between LN and LPH (which was strongly in LN's favour before our involvement, then a peace deal would end their involvement. If their cause for war was simply to attack for the sake of attacking, then that would become immediately obvious, and they wouldn't have anywhere near as much support. It would vary from each individual and situation, not every rogue will be the same. I would think that if the actions taken were good, it would be called something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 King Conrad has already made clear nobody can make any deals on his behalf, he will continue attacks on Stonewall regardless of what anybody else says. So I don't take any offers claiming to have any control over Conrads future actions very seriously. Later he will just claim it has always been his vow to continue attacks on Stonewall as long as he draws breath, etc. If you guys want to discuss a serious deal, come talk to me in a few days and try not to do something stupid in the mean time. Although LPH had a much higher chance of reaching a deal quickly for peace before others decided to stick their nose somewhere it didn't belong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 So, in essence, anti-bully Methrage is now going to hold my alliance at war because, after his initial refusal to negotiate months ago, he refuses to negotiate again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 So, in essence, anti-bully Methrage is now going to hold my alliance at war because, after his initial refusal to negotiate months ago, he refuses to negotiate again. Unless you're hoping to peace while your "friends" are kept at war, it doesn't make sense to fast track peace with you before we're ready for peace with all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Unless you're hoping to peace while your "friends" are kept at war, it doesn't make sense to fast track peace with you before we're ready for peace with all of them.You seem to have a problem understanding causation. Your desire to keep me at war only makes it funnier to see you struggle. The only reason I would want peace after you get dogpiled is if my friends want peace. There is no reason for me to want to peace out now; they would want to peace when I did. Being an agreeable person would help you get out of the bind you're in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolutionaryRebel Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 It would vary from each individual and situation, not every rogue will be the same. I would think that if the actions taken were good, it would be called something else. Well, yes. Compare the words, 'freedom fighter' and 'terrorist'. While both involve civil strife, one is 'good', while the other is 'bad'. But things aren't black and white; most of the time, things end up in the middle. Now, I'm sure that Kashmir occasionally messes around, nobody is a saint. However, in this particular situation, the rationale why certain Kashmir nations involved themselves was due directly to the fact that LPH was being rolled by LN, without assistance. LN's original attacks on LPH were opportunistic. Is it possible Kashmir members did things in the past you don't like? Yeah, but I don't think it's relevant. While I am resigned to the fact of LN being composted of paranoid members that will treat any war they have as an 'existential threat', I hope that you'll eventually avoid following the same path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 I hear a lot of whining about me not giving peace fast enough. If you don't like it, you shouldn't of declared on Limitless Nexus. Simple as that. We're not a target for you to get some quick raids in and then peace out right away. I'm sure RR thought we would be so intimidated by his attacks, we'd peace out immediately. Sorry, but things don't work that way around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 There's a hole in your logic: Limitless Nexus declared on us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 There's a hole in your logic: Limitless Nexus declared on us. There is a hole in your brain if you thought that war which ended months ago was still ongoing. LPH didn't even exist at the time, yet you pulled all of them into this because you couldn't let go of a grudge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Layton Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 King Conrad and I know each other in person and coordinate heavily. If it is required, you could have his word personally that no further attacks on LN (unless in defence) will happen. If that is the issue, we can arrange that. I think I'm being quite accommodating. If you wish to negotiate peace in a few days, I'm not sure if I may be in a mood to offer the same agreement (pending Rey accepting it too). Kashmir has already gotten its pound of flesh from stonewall. If you wish for a separate agreement with LPH, that's fine too. But in reality, there's nothing you can really offer us other than peace with LPH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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